Older bond films seen as sexist?

Jarvio

Do you think that women in this day and age would perceive the older bond films to be sexist?
For example, in lots of the old films, many of the women are extremely passive and defenseless. It's only in the later films that they are more active, for example, Jinx, Wai Lin, Natalya, Pam Bouvier etc.

I noticed that in one of the older films, I think it was GF, Bond literally slaps a woman on the arse! I also think there was something similar on FRWL. Now, if that was done on a bond film today, it wouldn't go down very well with people, am I right?

In many ways, it shows how society has changed, with more positive perspecitves on women and all that, but the question remains: If you showed an older Bond film to a young woman, do you think she'd find it sexist?

Loeffelholz

Very probably. It's hard to defend Bond slapping Dink on the arse and delivering that "man talk" line---and virtually impossible to imagine it happening in the 'Here and Now'

Films are a snapshot in time...and we can learn a lot about ourselves as a culture by looking back at those snapshots. I'm currently working on a (literary) project set in 1941...and I've had to pay a bit of lip service to the sexism of that era, in the interest of contextualizing time and place...but it certainly felt weird doing so---and who knows if it will survive rewrites? But I think it should, as things truly were different in the past, and not having a bit of it wouldn't ring true.

Bonds are always contemporaneous...and those attitudes were contemporary when the cameras rolled.

actonsteve

Jarvio wrote:

For example, in lots of the old films, many of the women are extremely passive and defenseless. ?

Since when are the sixties Bond girls passive and defenseless?

Honey could defend herself with a knife and killed a man with a black widow spider, Pussy Galore was an independent criminal with a nice line in judo, Aki was an agent who showed intelligence and initiative, Tatiana Romanova won the day against Klebb when she had to choose between 007 and her fearsome former employer.

Each of the sixites Bond girls were pretty three dimensional. The 'Dink slap' scene is trotted out every time a feminist wants to bash the programme but if you look deeper the girls, often based on Flemings writing, were very interesting and often had motivation and separate storylines of their own.

Jarvio wrote:

It's only in the later films that they are more active, for example, Jinx, Wai Lin, Natalya, Pam Bouvier etc.?

It can be argued that the first "independent Bond girl" was Pussy Galore in GF, followed probably by Fiona Volpe. The girls have always been active. Threre is nothing special about the nineties Bond girls. In many ways they are pretty bland. Jinx was a cartoon character, an "equal" to Bond but pretty dull other then that. Same with Wai Lin and even your mentioned Pam Bouvier.

Thats why Vesper Lynd works so well because she has an interesting character - a enigmatic woman who is conflicted about her loyalties. All Wai Lin did was run around blasting away and emiting "Hai Ya!"

And the action Bond girls were there a long time before Jinx/Wai Lin/Natlaya - Holly Goodhead fighting on a cable car, Tracy spinning her car around the stock car track, Melina spearing Gonzales in Spain, and Domino going after the killer of her brother.

They managed to do it without being two dimensional. And in an era which is supposed to be "sexist"

Pah!

Dan Same

I wish that Fish was still around to see this thread. ) It quite annoys me when people label Bond films, or Bond himself, as sexist. It may be true but in the case of Bond, it is not necessarily a bad thing.

What I love about Bond is that, while he has 'good' qualities, he also has what society may deem to be flaws, and one of these has been sexism. When I watch the 'Dink slap' scene in GF or the PTS in DAF in which Bond threatened to strangle a woman to death with her bikini or the 'bitch slap' in TMWTGG, I see an agent who is not only willing to treat women th same way as men (such as when Bond threatened women) but is perhaps a little sexist, which was both a reflection of the times and that he is not a saint. He is certainly no Jason Bourne. )

actonsteve wrote:

It can be argued that the first "independent Bond girl" was Pussy Galore in GF, followed probably by Fiona Volpe.

I would argue that the first 'independent Bond girl' was Honey Rider; a Bond girl who was certainly able to take care of herself.

I hate to say it, but IMO the era of the great Bond is over. Putting aside Xenia (who wasn't really a Bond girl), the last great Bond girl IMO was from the Moore era. From most recent times, I liked Natalya, although I found her to be a little unforgettable, I loathed Wai Lin and Jinx, I didn't mind but didn't love Christmas Jones and *I hated Vesper.

Regarding Wai Lin and Jinx, I hated them because IMO they were examples of Bond girls who were intent on being 'female Bonds' and were very much in the audience's face about it. JFF has used the word nauseating. I think that's an accurate description of how I feel about these characters.

*My dislike for Vesper isn't to do with how 'equal' the character is. Although it does have somewhat to do with the character, it's mostly because of Eva Green herself.

emtiem

He's a sexist, yeah of course. I find it rather funny if you're laughing at James rather than with him, and I'm not convinced that they didn't back in 60s when they were making it. Are the films sexist? Probably; you don't see many objectifying women quite as much as to have naked sexy ones dancing about in the titles!