Hating TB
Sweepy the Cat
Halifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
Out of all the bond films only a few are bad. FYEO was a good FRWL style plot but the pre-creds sequence and cheesy music ruined it. Plus Moore didn't quite pull it off. CR was another good idea ruined (For the third time!) because of the new scenes trying to make a film that could squeeze into less than 90 minutes an epic. TMWTGG was another good idea ruined. A down to earth tale with a brilliant villian playing a villain about to kill bond but was too long, had a bimbo girl and was too corny at trying to pull of a kung-fu movie. AVTAK is my second worse and the only good things about it where the villains and the action sequences. It went on too long, Mayday wasn't needed, the girl screeched like a pig stuck in a fence and Moore was approching 60!
But the big bad bond film of them all would have to be TB! I'd even go far enough to say I'd prefer NSNA!:o It is a good simple plot in the most boring film ever! This is the film I avoid most. I just don't see why people like it. The bond girl wasn't great, the Aston Martin was old and rusty, the start was camp, the end finale on the boat wasn't huge and Emilio Largo was a good villain ruined (Presumebly a Godfather-esqe Don with an eyepatch smoking cigars. So am I alone here or do I have supporters.
But the big bad bond film of them all would have to be TB! I'd even go far enough to say I'd prefer NSNA!:o It is a good simple plot in the most boring film ever! This is the film I avoid most. I just don't see why people like it. The bond girl wasn't great, the Aston Martin was old and rusty, the start was camp, the end finale on the boat wasn't huge and Emilio Largo was a good villain ruined (Presumebly a Godfather-esqe Don with an eyepatch smoking cigars. So am I alone here or do I have supporters.
Comments
What is it with the Brosnan generation? Can they not tolerate a slower pace of film?
Moore didnt quite pull it off? WTF? Its considered his best outing as 007. His age was not pulled back on in this one - shes a jaded old spy with a touch of cyncism about him "thats detente comrade!". A man who is weary of the world and has not forgotten the past (ie the PTS that you dislike)
No, the reason that you think that it is not his Bond is that you did not expect a 'serious Moore'. He's perfectly capable of playing tough when need be.
Theres also a genial air in this one about him seen in his protectiveness with Bibi and his condoling Melina when she cracks up about her parents death..
No, sorry old boy, I'm afraid you're all wet on this one
Kids these days...no respect for classics :v
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
...caught me by surprise. TB has perhaps the best ensemble cast of hotties in the whole series-- in fact it just might be the sexiest film in the whole series-- with the beautiful Claudine Auger (imho) being the cherry on the sundae.
Some other great things about TB that I can't help but list:
1) Sir Sean in his prime
2) Spectre in full effect
3) a fantastic John Barry score
4) beautiful scenery
5) the whole 60s Bondmania feel of the thing-- you could tell that Bond was at the height of his popularity ever when this was made.
I'm with you on FYEO, however. I know I know Moore actually tried to act tough in that, however to me that wasn't his strength and it just didn't work. I much prefer Moore when he's working to his own strengths, in, say MR or OP.
Now to FYEO. Roger Moore was perfect in that film. It was one of his best IMO.
Sweepy, I've just worked out you are thirteen years of age. So perhaps we should go easy on you..
Welcome to Bond fandom. Its an addictive love that will see you throughout your life. At thirteen I was seeing Octopussy at the cinema..
Thoroughly enjoyable..
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One scene cannot ruin a movie. I actually like the cheesy disco version of the Bond theme. The rest of the music is quite good.
TMWTGG only has one Kung Fu scene. That does not mean it is trying to be a Kung Fu movie.
Thunderball has gorgeous underwater photography and the sexiest women in the series. I can understand why you don't like TB. You're 13. All is forgiven.
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=26409
I generally agree about FYEO, though as for AVTAK 'only' having good action and a good villain aint bad!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
And as far as FYEO goes, Its one of the two only half decent Bond films from the Moore era (TSWLM being the other). It is also Roger Moore's one and only decent performance as Bond for the very reasons you say he doesn't "quite pull it off."
But yeah; I don't often watch Thunderball. It is as close to dull as the Bonds get; it just goes on forever. And when the underwater bits start... wake me in an hour.
But it is full of incredible cool and wonderful lines, gorgeous girls and great locations. It's a collection of some of the finest moments in any Bond ever, but put together they make a bit of a mess of a movie.
I adore TB. It's my third favourite Bond and IMO it remains an absolute Bond masterpiece. The Bond girls are extremely beautiful, Connery is superb, the music is great, the PTS is magnificent, the locations are fantastic and Largo remains a tragically underrated villain. Yes, the underwater sequences (especially near the end) drag on a little, but I would never describe the film as boring. I think it's a brilliant film and is easily among the truly greatest Bond films of all time (IMO only GF and FRWL are better.)
As for FYEO; I like it alot. While I don't think it's Moore's best film (that honour is reserved for TSWLM) it is IMO certainly among his top 3 (along with LALD.) I thought that Moore's performance (his third best IMO behind TSWLM and LALD) was very good, although I don't think he was any tougher than he was in TSWLM. I also liked that Bond did not leave planet Earth and I think that the PTS (the silliness aside) was quite good. Oh, and I loved the theme song. I don't think it's a masterpiece but IMO FYEO was the best film of the 80's (although apart from OP, I don't think it had much competition.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
The PTS is somewhat entertaining, but it ultimately adds nothing to the plot (at least I don't think it does, I, like emtiem, try not to watch this one).
Largo, in this film, is this big fat gangster who has an eyepatch (!!!) which is terribly cliched and comes off badly. His performance isn't that memorable either, considering his dialogue was somewhat poorly dubbed. Also, the relationship between Emilio and Domino is too creepy for words, he's much older and she's way younger so it comes off as weird, whereas in NSNA, there was a closer age difference. Also, NSNA Largo was a true psychotic genius with an air of culture and likeability about him.
Claudine Auger, also, while a beautiful woman, did a terrible job at acting and is pretty forgettable. This whole movie seems to be so far actually, no one, not even Connery delivers a pretty solid performance here.
After hearing wonderful things about Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona Volpe, I swore she'd be the one who would steal the show. Not really. While she's a beautiful woman, aside from that, and how she kills people, nothing about her really stood out. Barbara Carrera's Fatima Blush OTT performance settled in much nicer for me, she was almost like the precursor to Xenia Onatopp and she was most definitely dangerous (and psychotic!). You didn't see Fiona as being projected so well like Fatima was.
The whole body-double switching thing in TB also threw me for a loop. In NSNA there was none of that (thank god). I also hate, hate HATE the awful fast-motion effects they used in this film to excess, Bond on the exercise table is one and the final fight aboard the Disco Volante is just embarassing! They didn't have to do that in the earlier films and the effect was always wonderful. Perhaps they thought the quality wasn't very good so they thought that fast motion would really rev up the audience. (I was not revved
Also, in comparison to, say, the Gypsy Camp fight in FRWL and the raid on Fort Knox in GF, the underwater fights are gag-inducingly boring. They go on way too long and John Barry's music is looped over and over again until you get bored of it. (Also, his TB score is definitely lackluster in comparison to his earlier efforts).
I just can't understand why NSNA gets the bum rap that it does where Thunderball, to me, is so much worse on so many levels that it really kills the learning experience. Part of my dislike is that it didn't live up to all the high expectations that I'd heard around here and two, in a similar vein, it and YOLT are always thought of as the "big, OTT films" when almost nothing about them is so. YOLT is better than TB because TB is almost slow from the get-go whereas YOLT waits until the deaths of Aki and Helga Brandt to go downhill. The ending fight of YOLT is pretty good though.
And that's why I don't especially care for TB and prefer NSNA.
I found one part really interesting: That's exactly how I feel about your favorite GoldenEye. To me, the merits of the film itself are pretty weak, but that gets overlooked because:
(A) This was Brosnan's ballyhooed debut in a role everyone thought he was getting eight years earlier.
(B) It ended a nightmare six-year hiatus period.
(C) A whole new generation of fans was introduced to Bond through this film.
In other words...all hype, no substance. Just as you feel about TB.
It's good, I can see why people like it, but it's not a nugget like Goldfinger.
I'm sorry, Sir Hillary, if I appear to be sticking my nose into an argument between you and JFF, but Goldeneye is one of my favorites (surprise!
IMO, Brosnan gave a very strong debut performance, as can be seen in his scene with M. I think the steely way in which he stared at M as she told him he was a "misogynist dinosaur" is very Bond-like. His "chase" with Xenia was also great fun: it showed a relaxed Bond, enjoying himself while having some fun with a mysterious, beautiful woman. I think this element is lacking in some of the more "modern" portrayals of spies, wherein the hero always seems to be hating himself and his job. Bond's "fight" with Xenia in the steam room later is also a high point, which contains 2 one-liners that I really like: "That depends on your definition of safe sex" and "No,no,no, no more foreplay!"
Besides Brosnan, the film also has several other strong points:
1) A wonderful stunt in the PTS, done without the benefit of CGI: the bungee jump.
2) A great title song (very Shirley Bassey-esque).
3) A very worthy opponent in 006. Here is a guy with the same training and skills as Bond, who can anticipate Bond's moves. He makes for a more dangerous foe than many of Bond's later adversaries, including Le Chiffre. Plus he was played by a very good actor, Sean Bean.
4) A very sexy villainess. Famke Janssen is fantastic as a psychotic henchwoman with a peculiar way of killing people. Her character triggers memories of outrageous Bond villains of the past (like Oddjob, who also has a peculiar specialty). It's an OTT character, and Famke played it the way it should be played. She went all-out, without any inhibition, and it was great fun to watch.
5) An insightful and well-acted conversation between Natalya and Bond on the beach, and another one between Trevelyan and Bond when Bond first learned that 006 was alive.
6) One of the best fistfights in the series, between Bond and 006 on the satellite.
7) The introduction of the new M and Moneypenny, both of whom turned out to be, IMO, very valuable additions to the series.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I just felt that, with all the Brozzer-bashing that has been going on (not just on AJB), if there is a Brosnan film worth defending, some Brosnan fans still may feel reluctant to defend it. So what the heck, I'll just be the one dumb enough to step up and do it. Now, let me take cover while the flames begin to come raining down. {:)
Hopefully with the successful rerelease of Goldfinger we'll see these three shown soon.
Of course, some people could say the same thing about Craig's debut in the end. Was it really all hype and no substance? Was it because it was Casino Royale finally made on the big screen? Was it because he is blonde? Because it was a new Bond? Because of the torture scene? Because of poker being so hot right now? I don't know, I love the movie (CR) and thought it was good.
Now about TB, this is one of the Bond movies that I pop on when I want to watch Bond (the others being FRWL, OHMSS, LALD, TLD, Goldeneye, and CR...one from everybody and two from Connery). I love the girls, the gadgets, the characters, and especially the music...that score is absolutely amazing!
I won't try to defend the speeded up scenes in the finale, but when you watch older movies, rear screen projection is quite the norm. Even classic directors such as John Ford and Alfred Hitchcock used it. It's noticeable, but it was the technology for the times. Not always perfect, but not a deal breaker for me.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Hmm. It does a bit. It looks fantastic, but that whistle in the junkanoo bit is nearly deafening in the cinema!
But I have fond memories of it from watching it as a kid, and it's a good full throttle Bond made at the series peak, like a sequel to GF really. YOLT moves faster, but the lines aren't as witty and the human angle is totally gone.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I like TB -- Connery's great, the women are gorgeous, and score is fantastic -- but I can see how it rates low on some people's lists.
Roger Moore 1927-2017