Tomorrow Never Dies
kronides
Posts: 4MI6 Agent
I just watched this movie again today. Traditionally, it has always battled DAD for the bottom of my list. Now, after having seen it again for the first time in over a year and filtered it through something of an historical perspective, I hope, the movie's value has increased somewhat in my mind.
It's problems:
1) Female superspies. I hate Bond movies depicting female superspies, who are equally capable of doing everything Bond can do, and it's only a matter of chance that he rescues her instead of vice-versa. Flame away, but you will not change my mind by calling me a misogynist dinosaur. I like what I like.
2) Pierce Brosnan. Also, one of it's strengths as well as it's weakness. In the action sequences, when fighting, wearing a suit, anything *physical* that is to say, PB is probably better in my judgment than anyone else to have played Bond.
Where the poor guy fails is, of course, when he has to talk, or emote. Oh my God, his dialogue is awful. Whether the fault is his or the Powers That Be, I don't know, but his dialogue in (especially the last three that he made) Bond films was atrociously bad, being either ridiculously sentimental and un-Bondish, or borderline retarded. Shame.
3) Sorry villain. He just sux, and makes me miss Blofeld. Even Charles Grey's Blofeld.
4) Bond being in love with a woman (don't do this too many times, now...)
Strengths:
1) Action series.
2) Pierce Brosnan (see above).
3) Q (Grow up, 007...)
That's all I have to say for now, I hope to get feedback on this movie to spur my own thinking. I like the movie, well, of course I like all Bond movies; it remains one of my least favorites but I like it better now than I used to.
Thanks
It's problems:
1) Female superspies. I hate Bond movies depicting female superspies, who are equally capable of doing everything Bond can do, and it's only a matter of chance that he rescues her instead of vice-versa. Flame away, but you will not change my mind by calling me a misogynist dinosaur. I like what I like.
2) Pierce Brosnan. Also, one of it's strengths as well as it's weakness. In the action sequences, when fighting, wearing a suit, anything *physical* that is to say, PB is probably better in my judgment than anyone else to have played Bond.
Where the poor guy fails is, of course, when he has to talk, or emote. Oh my God, his dialogue is awful. Whether the fault is his or the Powers That Be, I don't know, but his dialogue in (especially the last three that he made) Bond films was atrociously bad, being either ridiculously sentimental and un-Bondish, or borderline retarded. Shame.
3) Sorry villain. He just sux, and makes me miss Blofeld. Even Charles Grey's Blofeld.
4) Bond being in love with a woman (don't do this too many times, now...)
Strengths:
1) Action series.
2) Pierce Brosnan (see above).
3) Q (Grow up, 007...)
That's all I have to say for now, I hope to get feedback on this movie to spur my own thinking. I like the movie, well, of course I like all Bond movies; it remains one of my least favorites but I like it better now than I used to.
Thanks
Comments
I'm probably alone on this, but I thought Carver was an excellent villain {:) . He had charm, sophistication, and menace at the same time. I admit some of his lines are corny but I liked him.
Jonathan Pryce is easily the worst man to play a villain. No menace there - all the squeaking and snapping. His Wai Lin impersonation was a Bond villain lowlight (up there with most of Gustav Graves' scenes). A very bad piece of casting.
And Brosnan the best for physical? Better then Moore maybe but Craig? Dalton? I always thought Brosnan looked too slight to throw people around.
Anyway, TND is a lacklustre film where they cant even get the title tune right.:#
Sure it has flaws- what Bond film doesn't?- but it worked for me (and still does).
- The media plot is interesting, but it comes off as a bit thin.
- Elliot Carver had potenial, but he isn't menacing enough. Stamper was an anonymous henchman, while the brilliant Dr. Kaufman had to little screentime.
- The Bondgirls didn't impress me. Hatcher had some potential but was killed off way to early, while Michelle Yeoh was just awful.
- I disagree with Kronides, I thought Brosnan did a great job. He was good in both the emotional scenes and in the action sequences.
- The action was great and TND strongest side. But the climacs was dissapointing with just a regular shoot-out.
That's my summary of the mediocre Tomorrow Never Dies.
I'm not a big fan of TND. Although I do find it entertaining, and I think it has some great moments (the fight at the party, the scene with Dr Kaufman, the car chase as well as some of the dialogue and Brosnan himself), I think it has five major flaws:
1)Wai Lin-I can not stand this woman.
2)The film is derivative-in fact not only is it unoriginal but IMO it is nowhere near as good as any of the films it rips off (such as TSWLM.)
3)Wai Lin-You know, not only is IMO Wai Lin one of the worst Bond girls of all time IMO, but she arguably spawned IMO the worst Bond girl of all time; Jinx. X-( (Wai Lin would probably be second-bottom on my Bond girls list, although Stacey Sutton and Vesper would certainly challenge her in that regard.)
4)Carver-an absolute joke of a villain. IMO the two worst villains of the last decade and a half were Graves and Carver, and what connects them is that both IMO weren't threatening at all, neither were interesting and both IMO were horribly acted.
5)Wai Lin-I really hated her.
The thing about Pierce Brosnan is that he is desperate to be a serious actor but he hasn't quite got the goodies. He is very photogenic, charming and can deliver the puns but there are better actors out there who can do the emotional stuff.
But sadly, bless 'im, he doesnt know that.
Therefore he badgers the Bond producers to make his Bond more "human", he bitches with Matt Damon that Bond is "stuck in the sixties.." not noticing that he is really the reason they didnt go for a full out emotional rip-yer-guts out 007 like they did with Danny boy...
Yes, wonderful, let's turn a thread on a particular film into a platform for character assassination of a real person. Classy. 8-)
Its an opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree. But attack the argument not the arguer..
Then why didnt you put this argument up there instead of lashing out personally...
I will never understand the hatred some people is having against the guy. All though some of his films aren't that much to talk about, I always liked his charming portrayal of Bond. Not the best Bond, but not the worst either. Pierce is definately not the reason why I think TND is mediocre.
I thought Brosnan was very good in The Matador and was easily the best thing about the portentous Seraphim Falls. TND is probably his best Bond film, but his era was a real let-down for me. It's less to do with him, but rather the movies themselves which lacked that special something I love about the earlier Bond films. I like Brosnan as an actor, especially in The Thomas Crown Affair, and look forward to seeing Shattered, or Butterfly on a Wheel, or whatever they're calling it this week.
You know, I had forgotten about that "I'm sorry to disappoint you" line. I think it shows, that for all of its flaws, TND had some pretty good dialogue. The dialogue in the next scene with Kaufman was outstanding IMO. Plus, I think that the dialogue at the start of the film with Moneypenny, M and Carver was also very good. I would even go so far as to say that *Moneypenny's dialogue in TND was probably her best in all of the Bond films.
*Before anybody responds with a comment about the dialogue in the Brosnan films, let me say that IMO the dialogue in the first three Brosnan films was superb.
I thought the cast were mainly good. Pierce B really settled into the Bond role in this one I thought and projects himself with confidence throughout. As for Pryce...I thought he did a good job portraying a slightly insane villain. There were some questionable moments, yes, but that was more the fault of the writers. Teri Hatcher was good as Paris Carver, but Michelle Yeoh's Wai Lin is just bland, bland, bland. Stamper? Eh, I can take him or leave him.
The plot is derivative of YOLT and TSWLM, as others have said, though the media baron-as-villain angle did provide some good - and topical - differentiation.
All-in-all, not classic Bond but well worth an occasional watch.
BTW, what is it with people criticising Brosnan's physique? I always thought PB looked kind of bulky. In his shirt-off moments he looks fairly impressive, at least.
Or even a Ford Mondeo...
What a tick? Didn't he drive one in...? hahahaha:))
So, TND is an entertaining and enjoyable film, but really doesn't stack up on the Bond film repertoire.
Oh yes, utterly dire and so is the film!
(Compared, I should say, with The World Is Not Enough, which is memorable primarily for its positive aspects).
I like Pierce. I just think Sean Connery and Roger Moore cut him to ribbons on the "dialogue" or non-action sequences, that is why Pierce fails in my humble opinion.
And gotta say, with all the--yes indeedy--moaning Brosnan has done in the press over the years, seems quite fair to call him out on it. His habit of badmouthing the last film to promote the one in current release was not very nice, IMO. He comes off as full of himself, and not in an invitingly good way. JMHO.
Liked Carver, he wasn't very menacing but what he was about was pretty decent for a throwback Bond plot. It appeals like TSWLM does, never thought Jurgens was all that anything in that film, but the film itself clicks right along just fine. As does TND, IMO.
Agree about the female agent thing, always kinda irksome. But Wai-Lin came off okay though, not the best but certainly not the worst Bond girl (cough*Christmas Jones*cough cough).
Third act coulda used some polish, but definately Brosnan's best IMO. For most of this film, he's Bond for me (no small feat, lol).
The pre-credit sequence is great. The remote control BMW chase, and the motorcycle chase although stretching creditibility are great to watch.
I actualy liked Wai Lin.
Where TND falls down for me is in three main areas:
1. The villians. Jonathan Pryce was totally miscast and projected all the latent menace of Winnie the Pooh. Stamper was a Grant clone with absolutely no individual distinction. His final fight with JB was a total non event. The only villian who shone was Dr. Kaufman who stole the show.
2. The plot. Paper thin. With a more menacing main villian it just might have papered over the cracks. I understand both Alan Rickman and Anthony Hopkins were approached. Either of those two would have been great.
3. The end.Up until boarding the stealth boat the action fairly zipped alone, but once on board it became something of a disorganised mess. What should have been the most exciting part of the movie actually became the least exciting. The same critism could be levied against the much superior TWINE.
I know you have to suspend belief in a Bond movie but there was a couple of sequences which just did not make sense.
When Bond was escorted to the sound proof booth in Hamburg it was obvious it was a trap yet he let Carver's thugs get behind him and beat the crap out of him before he fought back. Not the actions of the worlds best secret agent.
If Wai Lin could open the handcuffs so easily with her ear ring why didn't she do this at the start rather than having to climb all over the motorbike during the chase. A case of logic being jetisoned for the benefit of a set piece.
Not the worst Bond by any means but for me it only really works for the first three quarters.