Someone really doesn't like Lee Tamahori

actonsteve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPnB_SooaSA

I hope Mr Tamahori doesnt type his own name into YouTube. He'll find this..

Its pretty strong stuff, but I agree with the core of it..

taity

Thats just being nasty. While DAD was a weak script, its not fair to blame him for EVERYTHING.

Plus, it was the highest grossing movie before CR, I dont think its fair to say as a big money earner nearly killed the franchaise.

Jamesbondjr

taity wrote:

Thats just being nasty. While DAD was a weak script, its not fair to blame him for EVERYTHING.

Plus, it was the highest grossing movie before CR, I dont think its fair to say as a big money earner nearly killed the franchaise.

I agree, I usually don't comment on videos on youtube but I couldn't help myself.
Like you said taity, it was a weak script which he didn't write himself and also the cgi was not done by him, although i'm sure he must have had imput somewhere. To solely blame him is unfair and quite pathetic.

Dan Same

Jamesbondjr wrote:

To solely blame him is unfair and quite pathetic.

I agree. It is nasty. I hate DAD, both for itself and that it led to the reboot, but to put all the blame on the director is extremely unfair. Afterall the Bond producers are the ones with the real power. Many people credit them with CR; yet they aren't blamed for DAD? That's not to mention the script, some of the performances and the CGI which were also terrible.

Sweepy the Cat

C,mon, DAD may not be brilliant but I think there are a lot of people who are too harsh on this film now. I remember when it first came out and everyone loved it.

Hardyboy

Isn't it kind of late to have a website protesting Tamahori as a Bond director? Heck, at least those anti-Craig people were timely (for a while).

Lazenby

"Because of Lee Tamahori the James Bond franchise had to have a major overhaul and eventually had to be rebooted."

We should actually be thanking him for that then, because the overhaul and reboot were sorely needed. I had all but given up on Bond during the Brosnan period. No offense to those who are/were fans of that era, but by that point, to someone who had eagerly lapped up all the previous offerings, it was evident that the series had blown its load by the time the Brosnan movies started coming out, and was in dire need of the reboot that took place.

That said, it's utter stupidity to pin this entirely on one man and movie-- when you rely on the same tried and true formula for 40 plus years it's bound to get a little stale. The nail that these folks are claiming Tamahori placed in the coffin of the first generation Bond series was only the inevitable sequel of everything prior to it-- ie., it would have happened sooner or later no matter what. If anything the Bond series has just demonstrated that it's bound to the same pattern of existence (ie., creation, sustainment, destruction, regeneration) as everything else in nature. I never even saw DAD when it came out because I was already bored with series at that point-- imho the responsibility can hardly be placed at the feet of that one director and film. That said, CR was an amazing turnaround-- I'll never forget reaction of my friends and the crowd in the theatre both times I saw it-- it was exhilarating! Bond was suddenly fresh and hip again-- something that hasn't really been the case to this degree since the Golden Age 60s films. I for one am glad the producers went the direction they did-- and am convinced that future generations will regard this move as the true savior of the series. I know there are people who disagree (the works of the great pioneers often confound and baffle conventional minds ) but that's just par for the course-- in any domain where the past is broken with there are those who are loathe to part with it. DAD, if nothing else, was a testimony to the unescapable fact that one chapter of the Bond franchise had come to an end and that it was high time for another to begin. Power to it!

Dan Same

Lazenby wrote:

I know there are people who disagree (the works of the great pioneers often confound and baffle conventional minds )

Next time someone criticises GF, I will use that quote. :v

Lazenby wrote:

in any domain where the past is broken with there are those who are loathe to part with it.

I'm someone who thinks that the reboot is completely unnecessary and unwanted, loved Brosnan and I think that CR was extremely overrated and very flawed. But I hated DAD. I bring all this up to demonstrate that dislike for DAD is not simply restricted to those who like CR/Craig/the reboot. Athough there are exceptions of course, I have a feeling that most Bond fans now (regardless of their individual preferences) dislike DAD. In fact, I would argue that DAD and AVTAK are the two films that most people seem to dislike, although for some absurd reason AVTAK is revered by some fans. )

Lazenby

Dan Same wrote:

In fact, I would argue that DAD and AVTAK are the two films that most people seem to dislike, although for some absurd reason AVTAK is revered by some fans.

AVTAK is actually a great film that was just marred by its jurassic lead actor. DAD, on the other hand, was flawed in a much deeper way, and for many more reasons.

Dan Same

Lazenby wrote:

AVTAK is actually a great film that was just marred by its jurassic lead actor. DAD, on the other hand, was flawed in a much deeper way, and for many more reasons.

IMO AVTAK was the worst Bond film of all time. I think that DAD was only the third worst Bond film (better than AVTAK and TLD) so I can't agree with you that AVTAK was a great film.

Loeffelholz

Dan Same wrote:

Lazenby wrote:

AVTAK is actually a great film that was just marred by its jurassic lead actor. DAD, on the other hand, was flawed in a much deeper way, and for many more reasons.

IMO AVTAK was the worst Bond film of all time. I think that DAD was only the third worst Bond film (better than AVTAK and TLD) so I can't agree with you that AVTAK was a great film.

As ready as I am to decry Sir Roger's tenure, I think AVTAK's issues go beyond Moore---although some of my biggest gripes (snowsurfing to a bad Beach Boys cover tune) logically descend from his involvement.

Another big problem was the producers' overreliance on San Francisco Mayor Diane Feinstein...which led to the extremely pedestrian (IMO) "City Hall's on Fire!" sequence...and the subsequent ripoff of Mack Sennett's Keystone Cops fire ladder schtick, which was a lot better in the '20s, when it was new...

I think the reboot would have happened with or without Tamahori's direction on DAD. It was the right time to do it.

Sweepy the Cat

Yeah, but still, DAD is No. 21 on my list with AVTAK at No.19.

Lazenby880

Loeffelholz wrote:

As ready as I am to decry Sir Roger's tenure, I think AVTAK's issues go beyond Moore---although some of my biggest gripes (snowsurfing to a bad Beach Boys cover tune) logically descend from his involvement.

Another big problem was the producers' overreliance on San Francisco Mayor Diane Feinstein...which led to the extremely pedestrian (IMO) "City Hall's on Fire!" sequence...and the subsequent ripoff of Mack Sennett's Keystone Cops fire ladder schtick, which was a lot better in the '20s, when it was new...

Apt comments Loeffs, but at least A View to a Kill is funny. Die Another Day is just depressing.

Loeffelholz

Lazenby880 wrote:

Apt comments Loeffs, but at least A View to a Kill is funny. Die Another Day is just depressing.

Fair enough {[] I can find enough to like in the first half of DAD to keep it ahead of AVTAK in my own personal rankings, but there's no denying that AVTAK was funnier...although bits of it, such as the car being cut cleanly in half during the Paris car chase, are equally depressing

Lazenby880

Loeffelholz wrote:

but there's no denying that AVTAK was funnier...although bits of it, such as the car being cut cleanly in half during the Paris car chase, are equally depressing

One man's fun is another man's depression. Personally I also find the idea of two geriatrics running about a French chateau hilarious (watching Bond and Tibbett take on Zorin's men is a good example of the 'what were they thinking' nature of the film). Grace Jones as Mayday is utterly fantastic in a bizarre sort of way. I tend to think of the film more as a comedy: rubbish, but funny and very surreal.

Loeffelholz

Lazenby880 wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

but there's no denying that AVTAK was funnier...although bits of it, such as the car being cut cleanly in half during the Paris car chase, are equally depressing

One man's fun is another man's depression.

No question about it

Lazenby

Dan Same wrote:

DAD...better than TLD)

I'm no huge fan of Dalton by any stretch...but that's just strange.

I can't agree with you that AVTAK was a great film.

Hold on...I didn't say it was a great film, only that it could have been (say if someone 20 years younger had starred in it).

Dan Same

Lazenby wrote:

I'm no huge fan of Dalton by any stretch...but that's just strange.

Not really. IMO TLD is an extraordinarily boring film, with no memorable characters, an absolutely shocking performance from Dalton (IMO only Dalton's performance in LTK is worse among Bond lead performances), a horrible and extremely messy script, immensely poor action scenes and featuring no positive aspects whatsoever. While DAD has elements that IMO are worse than TLD, DAD, unlike TLD, has some positive points. I don't think I could find any positive points in TLD; that's assuming that I would ever watch it again without having a gun being pointed at my head.

Lazenby wrote:

Hold on...I didn't say it was a great film, only that it could have been (say if someone 20 years younger had starred in it).

My problems with AVTAK extend far beyond who was the lead. I think that even if a much younger Moore (or Brosnan or Connery) had been in it, it would still have been terrible. Not as terrible as it is now, but it certainly would still be in my bottom 3. I think that AVTAK is unsurpassed among all Bond films in terms of its badness. My biggest problem with it? That it essetially replicated GF yet still proved to be a horrible film. I can certainly accept that other people like it, but I don't think I could ever like it, regardless of whom the lead was.

actonsteve

As I posted on another thread Moores age in AVTAK never bothered me. Spies get old and stay on with MI6 in real life. I'd be more bothered if the cast of AVTAK looked like "Americas top model"

Perhaps 1985 wasnt as ageist as 2007?

Anyway, I'm feeling a wee bit guilty about posting the link to Youtube. And Lazenby got it right the Bonds were a little bit ill and Tamahori was just the symptom. I do believe that he is 80% of the problem with DAD. After all he got the job with the Broccolis with the "get with the kids" angle and impressed on them the need for fast editing and MTV camera angles. They thought they needed to keep up with THE MATRIX etc..

The other stuff followed that. If you watch the DVD he altered Purvis and Wade said he altered the script majorly and Vic Armstrong has gone on record to say he pleaded with Lee about the cgi tidal wave..

The invisible car? I bet no one is owning up to that one?

I do belive the film clip is probably too extreme and unpleasant. But thats fandom for you...people, like directors, get carried away..