80's TD

Sweepy the Cat

Who here thinks that RM 's tenure should have ended with MR and TD should have taken over for FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK. I thinks with a few tweaks it would really work well. FYEO without the cheesy music and pre-creds scene. A trimmed OP. AVTAK with it's original title, a new bond girl who doesn't squeel like a pig stuck in a fence, absence of grace jones, more jenny flex, a plot to disable the worlds microchips and more action. I think that could make AVTAK the best bond film just thinking about it (drools). TLD with a coupe of tweaks including a plot idea simply based on smersh killing agents. LTK but shortened down and less of a Miami Vice theme. I think itwould work brilliantly and I'm wondering who's with me.

Dan Same

Not me. I think that Moore should have ended his tenure with OP, and Dalton should never have been hired, although I know I'm in a minority on the last point.

Loeffelholz

For my own part, I think Moore should have done three pictures. TWSLM represents Sir Roger at the apex of his effectiveness in the role---a quintessential distillation of what he brought to the table as Bond. With MR, they just added steroids to the mix (metaphorically speaking), and that's when Moore's 'waning years' began, IMRO.

FYEO was intended to be someone else's Bond---hence the 'Tracy's Grave' scene, which was crafted to help anchor the new guy in the role. Sadly, Sir Roger was successfully wooed back He had some fine moments in that one, no denying it, but I've always thought that FYEO should have definitely been his last.

Dan Same

Loeffelholz wrote:

Sadly, Sir Roger was successfully wooed back

) Not just once, but three times. Although regarding the third time he was wooed back, I actually agree with you.

Loeffelholz

Cubby's loyalty to Moore was commendable...bless him X-( )

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

Cubby's loyalty to Moore was commendable...bless him X-( )

Well Rog was making him stacks of money!

Loeffelholz

emtiem wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

Cubby's loyalty to Moore was commendable...bless him X-( )

Well Rog was making him stacks of money!

Very true...it became an unhealthy addiction toward the end of the Moore era, though...AVTAK might've been a better film---and made even more money---if they'd taken it in another direction.

Codependence is tragic...an intervention should have taken place )

actonsteve

Sweepy the Cat wrote:

, more jenny flex, .

You were doing OK until this bit.

)

No seriously I'm a Dalton era proponent but I am glad he made the films he did. If he had done more maybe the quality would have gone down (can you imagine Tim in DAD?). So the two were got were the best scripted and him at his most impressive.

Roger Moore? Well, I adore the man and have happy memories of him in AVTAK in 1985 (the year I left school) and it was really tailored around him. I dont mind the age of the actor because in these ageist times its nice to see a lead given to someone over fifty. And he exhibts the charm and grace he is famous for..

To be honest both films are tailored for the lighter or serious Bonds. It works the way it is..

Lazenby

In my dream Bond universe Connery would have called it quits after TB following which the great under-appreciated and underdeveloped George Lazenby would have signed on for five, countem five Peter Hunt directed masterpieces, namely YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG, all of which, hopefully, would have been crafted in the spirit of the hopelessly wonderful OHMSS we did end up getting. Moore could have then signed on for some comic book fare a la TSWLM, MR and OP before turning the reigns over to Dalton (or hopefully someone tougher and more masculine) for FYEO and the more down to earch 80s.

Mailfist

I totally agree that TD should have taken over from RM in FYEO. The more realistic approach in FYEO would have been ideal for TD and we would probably have been saved the cringe making ending with Margaret and Dennis Thatcher.

OP and AVTAK would also have been vastly improved. OP would habe been a sharp cold war thriller instead of a Roger Moore comedy and AVTAK would have looked like it was a James Bond movie rather than the start of a new franchise staring James Bond's dad.

Honey Rider

Mailfist wrote:

OP would habe been a sharp cold war thriller instead of a Roger Moore comedy

I wouldn't call it (or any other RM Bond film) a Roger Moore comedy. I mean, yes, OP is a bit silly at times (which Bond film isn't?) but it still features IMO among the most most tense sequences in the history of the Bond films; the scene in which Bond was attempting to disarm the bomb.

Lady Rose

Honey Rider wrote:

Mailfist wrote:

OP would habe been a sharp cold war thriller instead of a Roger Moore comedy

I wouldn't call it (or any other RM Bond film) a Roger Moore comedy. I mean, yes, OP is a bit silly at times (which Bond film isn't?) but it still features IMO among the most most tense sequences in the history of the Bond films; the scene in which Bond was attempting to disarm the bomb.

Having RM dressed as clown certainly didn't help things IMO. There are some great moments in OP. I loved Steven Berkoff and Louis Jourdan but it could have been a lot tighter.

I think TD could have come in from FYEO and should have been by AVTAK.

superado

Loeffelholz wrote:

Codependence is tragic...an intervention should have taken place )

In a new documentary from the recent DVD releases, Babs showed an old letter she wrote to Cubby on Tiger Beat stationary, "Aww daddy, you're trippin by keeping Roger Moore on! He aint got tha funk! Get Leif Garrett to do the theme song AND play 007, and change his first name to Jamie Bond, please daddy, please!?

Loeffelholz

superado wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

Codependence is tragic...an intervention should have taken place )

In a new documentary from the recent DVD releases, Babs showed an old letter she wrote to Cubby on Tiger Beat stationary, "Aww daddy, you're trippin by keeping Roger Moore on! He aint got tha funk! Get Leif Garrett to do the theme song AND play 007, and change his first name to Jamie Bond, please daddy, please!?

PoorMansJB

Loeffelholz wrote:

FYEO was intended to be someone else's Bond---hence the 'Tracy's Grave' scene, which was crafted to help anchor the new guy in the role.

Is that just your sense of it or have you read something to that effect; I had always understood that it was simply an attempt to bring the series back to earth (irony intended) after the nonsense that was MR.

Barbel

PoorMansJB wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

FYEO was intended to be someone else's Bond---hence the 'Tracy's Grave' scene, which was crafted to help anchor the new guy in the role.

Is that just your sense of it or have you read something to that effect; I had always understood that it was simply an attempt to bring the series back to earth (irony intended) after the nonsense that was MR.

Without meaning to speak for der Loeff, here's a quote from John Glen:

"There was some talk that Roger wouldn't do FYEO, so we had to be prepared to break in the new Bond. So opening up in the churchyard was my idea, to keep the continuity of the character and reveal the new Bond in an exciting situation." (Quoted in Martinis, Girls And Guns by Martin Sterling & Gary Morecambe 2002)

Harry Palmer

More Dalton, less Moore is a formula with which I agree in principle.

In practice, however, I think the PTS in TLD is great (one of the best sequences in the series) and part of its power derives from the fact that it introduces a new Bond. I fear that had Dalton's first minutes as Bond been the awful PTS of FYEO, the memory of his Bond-career would be the worse for it.

Moreover, I quite liked Moore in FYEO.


I think in my ideal scenario Dalton should have taken on from OP making it a slightly more down-to-earth film. He would then have had his fair share of Bond with a sobered-up OP, a slightly epic (but less silly) AVTAK, a more evenly conceived TLD and the low-key, low-budget LTK.

Dan Same

Harry Palmer wrote:

I fear that had Dalton's first minutes as Bond been the awful PTS of FYEO, the memory of his Bond-career would be the worse for it.

Alot of people dislike this PTS, but I think that, up to a certain point, it was fantastic. The idea of Bond visiting Tracey's grave and ending up on a helicopter controlled by a villain is fantastic IMO. However the PTS was ruined for me when, after Bond gained control, it became extremely silly culminating in the villain falling down a chimmey. Nonetheless, I think its concept was very good and up to the point of silliness, I thought it was a great PTS.

Napoleon Plural

I agree, that's why I'd happily pay out for a Blofeld's Cat Never Say McClory Again style rehash of FYEO, with a John Barry score and edited pts and other moments... Delete Bibi's would-be seduction altogether...

PoorMansJB

Barbel wrote:

Without meaning to speak for der Loeff, here's a quote from John Glen:

"There was some talk that Roger wouldn't do FYEO, so we had to be prepared to break in the new Bond. So opening up in the churchyard was my idea, to keep the continuity of the character and reveal the new Bond in an exciting situation." (Quoted in Martinis, Girls And Guns by Martin Sterling & Gary Morecambe 2002)

Interesting. I confess I own but have not read Martinis, Girls And Guns or Glen's biography.

Given the number of people who had no clue who "Tracy Bond" was when I saw FYEO, I'm not sure the scene was entirely successful regardless of it's purpose.

farscapeak

It was written for Dalton in mind as I understand it. He was being touted as a new bond and the producers decided that as well as returning the series to earth that a harder edge would return as well.

Prince Kamal Khan

Sweepy the Cat wrote:

Who here thinks that RM 's tenure should have ended with MR and TD should have taken over for FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK.

I generally agree. However, I wouldn't want any Bond but Moore in OP. Perhaps if OP had switched places with FYEO and Dalton could have started with FYEO in 1983, a massively rewritten AVTAK in 1985, TLD and LTK generally the way they are and an adaptation of Colonel Sun around 1992 ending with Dalton as Bond in GE around 1994 and I would have been happy.