Moore as the ultimate bond

Sweepy the Cat

Who thinks moore should have chosen Bond over The Saint and played him in all the films up until the late 70s/early 80s, obviosely with some nips and tucks. I can imagine him in all except FRWL, TB and OHMSS.

Napoleon Plural

Easy to see him in YOLT, DAF and maybe Dr No, but of course that's because his films TSWLM and LALD and TMWTGG resemble these earlier films, and the difference in actor made them seem different at the time. Like putting Craig in the formulaic CR...

Dan Same

I love Moore, but I don't know if he should have done any earlier films.

Connery IMO owns DN-TB. Connery wasn't wonderful in YOLT but he was still pretty good, however even if Moore came in for YOLT, that leaves a major problem; what about DAF?

Before I say what I mean, let me just say that, the final scene and his physicality aside, I didn't particularly like Lazenby in OHMSS. Unlike some other people here, I am absolutely delighted that he only ever did one Bond, and I often wonder about what OHMSS would have been like if Connery had done the film instead of Lazenby (this often leads to a question of whether Connery would have wanted to do the final scene, but that's a discussion for another time.) However, there isn't any major reason why Moore couldn't have done OHMSS. But that still leaves the big question; what about DAF?

I adored Connery in DAF. IMO it was an absolutely magnificent Bond performance which has been bettered only by Connery's first four performances and Brosnan's performance in TWINE. It's interesting to think about Moore doing YOLT or OHMSS, but IMO the other five films during this era could only have starred Connery.

So to answer your question, I could accept Moore coming in for YOLT and OHMSS, but only if he didn't do DAF, before returning for LALD (and retiring after OP.)

Sweepy the Cat

Hmm, so far it's 2-1. Just thought I'd mention that In the actual continuity in my opinion DAF and OHMSS switch round soa darker DAF and OHMSS would be taken by SC making LALD make a lot more sense with the death theme (Oh god i'm starting to go cross-eyed with my own alternate history of bond) )

Alex

I thought Moore was awesome as Simon Templar. The Avengers and The Saint happen to be the most watched dvds of any past tv programs. (shocked, on a 007 forum?)

But, I grew up with Rog in the 70s and 80s. And much as it is in fashion to disregard him nowadays, (thanks be to the messiah Daniel Craig), he remains my favorite when I need a quick pick me up.

I love all the Bonds!

Sweepy the Cat

Linking onto this, who thinks it would be ace if TD started in a heavily re-written AVTAK and did the original plotted idea for bond 17 in 1991 called Colonel Sun (The baddy's name.) starting with a training mission in a castle or something and after the titles a briefing from M moaning about his recent vendetta. Featuring an updated version of his Aston Martin Voltage and the rest of the film in China/Japan (All the same to me) with a mad scientist called Colonel Sun making some genetic breed ing thing with a YOLT style finale ending with Colonol Sun getting away in a helicopter from the roof with bond somehow taking it down. Followed by Bond 18 in 1993! Then Brozzers age.

Asp9mm

Sweepy, you are indeed absolutely mad {[]

RJJB

If Roger Moore had been the first Bond, we would not be here discussing the series. They may have gotten a second movie produced, but with the foppish RM in role, the series would have never taken off. Moore's "strengths" in playing comedy would never have been enough to sustain the initial era's movies.

Roger Moore vs. Red Grant?
Roger Moore vs. Oddjob?
Roger Moore in bed with Fiona Volpe?

No way he could have pulled it off.
Buffonery is NOT forever.

Krassno Granitski

Is this thread a joke?

Asp9mm

multi post alert ;% sorry

Asp9mm

ooops

Asp9mm

Asp9mm wrote:

Krassno Granitski wrote:

Is this thread a joke?

It was started by Sweepy, who has to have the award for starting the most random threads

Here's another classic:

http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=29574

Sweepy the Cat

I'm more of the the person who does the What If threads

Dan Same

Sweepy, although I would have preferred Connery in DN-TB and DAF, I am of the strong belief that Moore was capable of handling all of the pre-LALD films. I think that Moore would have been great in any of the 60's films and I think that the series would have been extremely successful. However I like Connery more.

taity

One thing that I think some people are missing is that the films are tailored to fit the actors. I very much doubt that Bond 20 would have been DAD if Dalton was still in the role. Nor would Bond 16 have been as dark as LTK if Brosnan had got the role and not Dalton.

As for Roger being the ultimate Bond - maybe. I always found him eaiser to watch than any of the other Bonds. Not too bad on the eyes, either.

RJJB

Dan Same wrote:

Sweepy, although I would have preferred Connery in DN-TB and DAF, I am of the strong belief that Moore was capable of handling all of the pre-LALD films. I think that Moore would have been great in any of the 60's films and I think that the series would have been extremely successful. However I like Connery more.

Roger Moore has stated something to the effect that he knew he could not play the Bond role as it originally was, so he stressed the comedy aspect. Knowing that, do you honestly believe he could have convincingly played Bond as it was written? I don't. I think if Moore would have been the original actor, the edge that the series had would have never been. Bond would have resembled the Dean Martin Matt Helm series, or the Our Man Flint movies. And all those movies are today are humor footnotes of the 60s.

Dan Same

RJJB wrote:

Roger Moore has stated something to the effect that he knew he could not play the Bond role as it originally was, so he stressed the comedy aspect. Knowing that, do you honestly believe he could have convincingly played Bond as it was written? I don't. I think if Moore would have been the original actor, the edge that the series had would have never been. Bond would have resembled the Dean Martin Matt Helm series, or the Our Man Flint movies. And all those movies are today are humor footnotes of the 60s.

I honestly believe that he could have easily handled the original films as IMO he wasn't as comedic as you make him out to be. I don't think that Moore's film resembled the Our Man Flint or Dean Martin films at all. People often bring up the killing of Professor Dent in DN as an example of Bondian ruthlessness. Well, I would say that the greatest example of Bondian ruthlessness was the killing of Sandor in TSWLM, in which Bond IMO came closest to committing murder than in any other film. Similarly, we had the killing of Stromberg, the kicking off the car off the cliff in FYEO and Bond's sexual ruthlessness in TMWTGG. He was also extremely tough as demonstrated by, for example, the fight in the dressing room in TMWTGG. One of the reasons why I love Moore so much (and why I consider him to be the third best Bond after Connery and Brosnan) is that, whilst humerous, he also IMO very much had an edge.

Although, as I mentioned, Moore was certainly quite humerous, a trait of his which I have always appreciated, I would never describe him as comedic. It ignores the serious aspects of his portrayal; some of which I've mentioned above. I'm also not really concerned with what Moore himself thinks. Robert De Niro, my favourite actor, once said that he couldn't do comedy or Shakespeare. Well, while he's yet to do Shakespeare, he has done comedy and has done it exceptionally well. )

As I said, I love Moore and I believe that he could have done brilliantly in the pre-Moore films (I think he's a better actor than many people give him credit for), but I'm not fussed as Connery is my favourite Bond, and I wouldn't take away DN-TB & DAF from Connery for all the world. :007)

Agent Sidewinder

Nah. Keep it as it is, I say. Sean is Sean and and Rog is Rog, and ne'er the twain shall meet.

RJJB, you seem to be one of the breed (who by a remarkable coincidence usually happen to be Moore-haters who insist on compartmentalising the Bond films into two groups: hardcore, edgy Fleming thrillers and Matt Helm/Austin Powers self-parodies. I must register my disappointment with this attitude. I really don't see how anyone could seriously view TSWLM or MR and put them on the same level as Our Man Flint and the like...I really can't

RJJB

You are right. I am definitely a Moore hater and I believe that comes from the fact that I am old enough to have been a in-the-theater Bond movie fan from the early days. Saw Goldfinger first, and then caught up on DN and FRWL as a re-release double bill. So my perception of Bond was based on the tougher image offered in the first four movies.
And I do not place all the blame on Moore. The down spiral to silliness satrted in YOLT and DAF.

As for Moore films resembling the silliness of Our Man Flint and Matt Helm, there are a few cringeworthy bits that take the films down.These are things that helped ruin the movies for me. Here are a few. Could list more , but my time is running out.

Kanaga inflating and exploding in LALD
The karate girls saving Bond and his subsequent
abandonment in TMWTGG.
The union jack parachute in TSWLM--ruined an otherwise great stunt
The gondola in MR
By the way, here's a good address for a great evaluation of MR: http://www.agonybooth.com/moonraker/
The gorilla suit in OP, especially when he checks his watch.
The climatic assault by Octopussy's team is straight out of "In Like Flint"

As for Moore's ruthlessness, it never seemed real to me. He is just not good of an actor. The fight with Sandor was ok, but then the end line "Such a helpful chap", sounds like a foppish gentleman, not at all like the tough character Bond is supposed to be. The cinematic villains of the first four movies would have taken care of the Nancy boy with little effort.

I have seen all the Moore movies numerous times, and I always gave him a chance. But no more Moore for me.

Sorry for the anti-Moore sentiment. I try to keep it to a minimum,and it gets tiring, focusing on the worst aspect of the series. But occasionally there are some things I just can't ignore.

Dan Same

RJJB, obviously we greatly disagree on Moore, so I'm not going to attept to bring you over to the dark side :v, but I do want to address a few comments that you made:

RJJB wrote:

You are right. I am definitely a Moore hater and I believe that comes from the fact that I am old enough to have been a in-the-theater Bond movie fan from the early days. Saw Goldfinger first, and then caught up on DN and FRWL as a re-release double bill. So my perception of Bond was based on the tougher image offered in the first four movies.
And I do not place all the blame on Moore

This may be true in your case (and I don't doubt that it is) but I don't think that your dislike for Moore has all that much to do with your age. I mean, there are plenty of Moore fans who as old as you, if not older. ) So, what I'm saying is that while your being around for all the Bonds in the cinemas is a reason for your dislike, it's not necessarily true of everyone.

RJJB wrote:

The union jack parachute in TSWLM--ruined an otherwise great stunt

Why? ?:) I loved that stunt and seeing the union jack parachute provided IMO the perfect finish.

RJJB wrote:

The climatic assault by Octopussy's team is straight out of "In Like Flint"

This wasn't exactly the greatest assault in the history of cinema, but surely you weren't watching it for its realism?

RJJB wrote:

The fight with Sandor was ok, but then the end line "Such a helpful chap", sounds like a foppish gentleman, not at all like the tough character Bond is supposed to be.

But how is this different to Connery saying 'they were on their way to a funeral,' 'She should have kept her mouth shut' or 'shocking! positively shocking!'? Bond is indeed a tough character. However what I have always loved about Bond is that he always balanced a ruthless or violent act with some humour (similarly to John McClane in Die Hard.)

RJJB wrote:

But no more Moore for me.

Don't you mean no moore for me? )

Georgiboy

I think Moore would have been capable to do all of Connery's movies but I think they wouldn't have been as good as they were with Connery. I like Roger Moore(my favorite bond) but I am satisfied with what he did. -{

Agent Sidewinder

RJJB wrote:

You are right. I am definitely a Moore hater and I believe that comes from the fact that I am old enough to have been a in-the-theater Bond movie fan from the early days.

Really? I thought it was due to you not being a fan of Moore's take on 007, but what do I know?

By the way, here's a good address for a great evaluation of MR: http://www.agonybooth.com/moonraker/

Here's an even better evaluation of MR, by yours truly:
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=25560&cpage=2

Owned.

-{

CasinoChris75

Someone had posted on You Tube the show Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert did on the worst pictures of 1985. At the end of the show, they quickly look at other films they considered to fit into the hall of shame and of course A View To A Kill was one of them. Gene Siskel remarked that Roger Moore ruined a once great series. I think Moore was a lot of fun and was very popular among general audiences. He made some very good films like Live and Let Die, The Spy Who Loved Me, and For Your Eyes Only.

Hugo Drax

Sir Roger is my favourite Bond, and always has been. Like Alex, I grew up with Sir Roger playing James Bond and I have always liked his debonair performances as 007.

Moore has been the subject of prodigious criticism, but I believe that Sir Roger played the role as only he could. He never too himself, or the part, too seriously. It is almost as if he realises how unrealistic his part is and therefore decides to have fun playing it.

He's never going to be everyone's cup of tea, but when I think of Bond, I first think of Roger Moore.

JennyFlexFan

Agent Sidewinder wrote:

RJJB wrote:

You are right. I am definitely a Moore hater and I believe that comes from the fact that I am old enough to have been a in-the-theater Bond movie fan from the early days.

Really? I thought it was due to you not being a fan of Moore's take on 007, but what do I know?

By the way, here's a good address for a great evaluation of MR: http://www.agonybooth.com/moonraker/

Here's an even better evaluation of MR, by yours truly:
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=25560&cpage=2

Owned.

-{

Still, much as I loved MR, I found the recap at the agonybooth hilarious. Can't wait til I get more free time to write my LTK recap :v. Especially the part about the scientist looking like the drama teacher, I was in stitches for days. )

Sidewinder, your review is great though! I'm so glad someone around here sticks up for Moonraker!

Alex

Hugo Drax wrote:

Sir Roger is my favourite Bond, and always has been. Like Alex, I grew up with Sir Roger playing James Bond and I have always liked his debonair performances as 007.

Moore has been the subject of prodigious criticism, but I believe that Sir Roger played the role as only he could. He never too himself, or the part, too seriously. It is almost as if he realises how unrealistic his part is and therefore decides to have fun playing it.

He's never going to be everyone's cup of tea, but when I think of Bond, I first think of Roger Moore.

{[] :007) (even though Connery's my favorite, I wholeheartedly concur)

DAWUSS

I think it would be interesting to see Moore's take in some of the memorable Bond moments, like those in FRWL, GF, and TB.


Although, if he was Bond for DN, imagine the reaction if he still left at the same time (or a few years later, say, DN to LTK?)