Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited May 2008
Have no fear, this is why we are posting pictures before the actual orders are made and payments taken. All will be good.
So what we have is...
Plackett and pocket patterns match perfectly.
Does anyone want to weigh in on the sleeve hem? The button tab does not match, that is certain.
Great pains have been taken by the tailor to get the pattern to match the screen used shirts. But as with the screen used ones, there may be a slight 10mm variance. This was good enough for the production.
Althouh 99.99% accuracy is wanted by us, and will be strived for, I hope everyone who is skeptical about this project is aware that this accuracy means a vast amount of the material is being thrown away and wasted. Hence the low amount being made and costs although reasonable, to some are still high. And that is why.
Also, how many other sellers would offer this amount of detail requested? I can be sure that if someone other than Paul and Simon and David were involved in this, only a replica shirt would be made out of the material, not a spot on pattern, thread, button, stitching match. But I do hope some of you are not expecting a 100% copy, as this would be impossible due to printing and tailoring differences. We are not all the same size as DC, so some difference will occur.
I'm not too concerned with where each panel of the shirt begins or ends but the pocket, placket, and yoke fabric should line up with the main panels of the front and back. There's quite a bit more than a 10mm variance between the trim and main panels on the pictures of the repro shirts. There doesn't seem to be any regard for matching them up at all.
The sleeve hem and tab don't match on the screen shirt so that doesn't really matter as much. That's why I didn't post a pic of it.;)
As far as the material being wasted I thought you guys were considering destroying the remaining material anyway.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
There's quite a bit more than a 10mm variance between the trim and main panels on the pictures of the repro shirts.
The sleeve hem and tab don't match on the screen shirt so that doesn't really matter as much. That's why I didn't post a pic of it.;)
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
So the sleeve hem and tab do not match.
Are we all agreed on these findings?
Plackett, shirt front/back and pocket pattern all match up. Sleeve hem and tab, do not.
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
I would sooner have everything match up properly and be less concerned with how it matches up to the screen used shirt.
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
So the sleeve hem and tab do not match.
Are we all agreed on these findings?
Plackett, shirt front/back and pocket pattern all match up. Sleeve hem and tab, do not.
Yep, sounds good to me. I was just kind of surprised that was overlooked by the manufacturer as it's pretty standard to match the pocket on tropical or dress shirts. They seem to have definitely matched up the details on the screen shirts.
I guess we were talking about different things.
Looking forward! {[]
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
I would sooner have everything match up properly and be less concerned with how it matches up to the the screen used shirt.
Yeah, but what about the other 40 :007) Everyone of us is looking at this thing from different angles, perspectives and have different hopes from others. Some see a ginormous collar, some see it as accurate. All we can do at this point is pool our perspectives on it and get the best from that. I am quite sure that someone will be dissapointed if we give them Craigs own. As it was not as perceived. Look at Markus for example, he's gone two years not being happy with Sunspels polo as he was sure the screenused piece had not got a pocket.
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
So the sleeve hem and tab do not match.
Are we all agreed on these findings?
Plackett, shirt front/back and pocket pattern all match up. Sleeve hem and tab, do not.
Yep, sounds good to me. I was just kind of surprised that was overlooked by the manufacturer as it's pretty standard to match the pocket on tropical or dress shirts. They seem to have definitely matched up the details on the screen shirts.
I guess we were talking about different things.
Looking forward! {[]
There are so many aspects of this to get right that one was bound to be overlooked on the first shirt. At least we have everything sorted now rather than halfway through production.
There are so many aspects of this to get right that one was bound to be overlooked on the first shirt. At least we have everything sorted now rather than halfway through production.
Exactly, it should be an easy fix. Thanks for accepting a little constructive(litterally) criticism.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited May 2008
Glad you noticed now and not in three months time {[] 'Cos that would've been
I submitted my measurements long ago but I am still unclear as to exactly how the shoulder measurement was to have been taken. The way I look at it, there could be different interpretations as to how to take that measurement, for example:
1) From shoulder bone to shoulder bone
2) From outside of shoulder to outside of other shoulder
Where do you fellows think that measurement should be taken based on where the shoulder seem is on the high resolution photos of Craig wearing the shirt? I know I am dead on for all of the other measurements requested but I am still worried about the shoulder measurement. Any help would be greatly appreciated so I can resubmit my correct measurement for that request.
You know the old carpenter's rule...measure twice, cut once.
and given we were using the exact material, and the exact manufacturer, who has a reputation to uphold, some would have thought "Henry Ford....just get the production line moving..."
yet only minutes after posting the first pics we have "desires", albeit genuine ones..
nice spot Kittlemier, and believe me, I have no problem with criticism, provided it's sent first class post.......afterall there is only "just in time" and "too late to give a...****"
Maybe those who have voiced frustration on the speed front will finally understand my desire to have all firmly on board....buttoned down, so to speak..
hence I think we need to let this run for a while before moving onto payment and production....let's give the regulars time to chip in too....especially on the collar...
And in the mean time one of us will go back to the manufacturer with these thoughts, as per ASP's attempt to batten them down above...afterall...we have to agree what we want changed PRECISELY....
but appreciate the comments;
I'll try to get some back-pics done outside this weekend and posted...
hence I think we need to let this run for a while before moving onto payment and production....let's give the regulars time to chip in too....especially on the collar...
And in the mean time one of us will go back to the manufacturer with these thoughts, as per ASP's attempt to batten them down above...afterall...we have to agree what we want changed PRECISELY....
Good idea! I have no problem waiting a little longer in order to let everyone voice their opinions and concerns and to get all the small details ironed out. No point rushing it at this stage.
I'd much rather wait a little longer for a perfect shirt.
The collar looks fine to me. I think the initial shot with a combination of distance to the camera, angle, and shadow under the collar made it look larger. The cut looks great.
I would be open to having a smaller collar, somewhere between 3-3 1/4" at the tip. I don't know how anybody else feels about that. I know some people want an exact copy of the screen used shirt, but I think the shirt will look better and more natural with a smaller collar, it looks a little 70sish now. Just my two cents. Other than that, it looks good. Keep pushing forward.
thanks
The collar has to be a little larger than standard to compensate for the tall collar stand but it looks pretty normal in all but the straight on or even from below pics. If you backed up with the camera or took the pics from slightly higher the collar would look normal. We're just not used to seeing this perspective.
Also, in the shot of Craig the collar is folded sharply while in the mannequin pic the collar is spread pretty wide. When you take into account the sharp edge with some of the fabric being folded into the collar stand it looks right to me.
Believe me, Indy gear guys have been having this problem for years trying to replicate the perfect Raiders fedora. Perspective changes from motion cameras to still cameras to the naked eye.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,757Chief of Staff
The shirt looks great and with you guys in charge I can sit back and relax and know full well that you will deliver a quality item - an item that we can all be proud to own, no matter how long it takes.
If you need to hear from the masses, I can't speak for everyone, but I've just been hanging back quietly (and appreciatively) and letting you gents' compulsive mania for detail do all the heavy lifting! {[]
I think we are on the right track and have made good progress - thank you the team for all the efforts and all others for the valuable insights. I am sure this is a first class item. I am ready for payment.
I have spoken with teh shirt makers and they are going to work on the pattern alignment for teh placket and pocket, I hope I did not miss anything?
Thanks for addressing the issue. I assume then the back yoke was lined up on the prototype then? All sounds good. Thanks again guys, from the masses. )
THE back yoke does not appear to be lined up in THE screen used shirt, im not sure about THE proto type Paul would have to chip in?
I'll have to respectfully disagree. You can see the yoke seam pretty clearly in the pics and that the florals and even the hash marks are lined up pretty well. Sorry to keep harping on these things, I just want everything perfect as I'm sure you guys do also. Thanks.
Comments
So what we have is...
Plackett and pocket patterns match perfectly.
Does anyone want to weigh in on the sleeve hem? The button tab does not match, that is certain.
Great pains have been taken by the tailor to get the pattern to match the screen used shirts. But as with the screen used ones, there may be a slight 10mm variance. This was good enough for the production.
Althouh 99.99% accuracy is wanted by us, and will be strived for, I hope everyone who is skeptical about this project is aware that this accuracy means a vast amount of the material is being thrown away and wasted. Hence the low amount being made and costs although reasonable, to some are still high. And that is why.
Also, how many other sellers would offer this amount of detail requested? I can be sure that if someone other than Paul and Simon and David were involved in this, only a replica shirt would be made out of the material, not a spot on pattern, thread, button, stitching match. But I do hope some of you are not expecting a 100% copy, as this would be impossible due to printing and tailoring differences. We are not all the same size as DC, so some difference will occur.
The sleeve hem and tab don't match on the screen shirt so that doesn't really matter as much. That's why I didn't post a pic of it.;)
As far as the material being wasted I thought you guys were considering destroying the remaining material anyway.
No, I meant the pattern in relation to the screen used shirt in general is very very close, but individual shirts if put side by side will show a slight variance, not the pocket/plackett match. The former has been researched alot, hence the latter being overlooked. And believe me, I thought this would be picked up on more.
So the sleeve hem and tab do not match.
Are we all agreed on these findings?
Plackett, shirt front/back and pocket pattern all match up. Sleeve hem and tab, do not.
I would sooner have everything match up properly and be less concerned with how it matches up to the screen used shirt.
Yep, sounds good to me. I was just kind of surprised that was overlooked by the manufacturer as it's pretty standard to match the pocket on tropical or dress shirts. They seem to have definitely matched up the details on the screen shirts.
I guess we were talking about different things.
Looking forward! {[]
Yeah, but what about the other 40 :007) Everyone of us is looking at this thing from different angles, perspectives and have different hopes from others. Some see a ginormous collar, some see it as accurate. All we can do at this point is pool our perspectives on it and get the best from that. I am quite sure that someone will be dissapointed if we give them Craigs own. As it was not as perceived. Look at Markus for example, he's gone two years not being happy with Sunspels polo as he was sure the screenused piece had not got a pocket.
There are so many aspects of this to get right that one was bound to be overlooked on the first shirt. At least we have everything sorted now rather than halfway through production.
Exactly, it should be an easy fix. Thanks for accepting a little constructive(litterally) criticism.
I can picture it now. Slipping on my new $300 shirt and looking in the mirror.
X-( Son of a .....!!!
1) From shoulder bone to shoulder bone
2) From outside of shoulder to outside of other shoulder
Where do you fellows think that measurement should be taken based on where the shoulder seem is on the high resolution photos of Craig wearing the shirt? I know I am dead on for all of the other measurements requested but I am still worried about the shoulder measurement. Any help would be greatly appreciated so I can resubmit my correct measurement for that request.
You know the old carpenter's rule...measure twice, cut once.
Cheers.
some wanted to just "get on with it"
and given we were using the exact material, and the exact manufacturer, who has a reputation to uphold, some would have thought "Henry Ford....just get the production line moving..."
yet only minutes after posting the first pics we have "desires", albeit genuine ones..
nice spot Kittlemier, and believe me, I have no problem with criticism, provided it's sent first class post.......afterall there is only "just in time" and "too late to give a...****"
Maybe those who have voiced frustration on the speed front will finally understand my desire to have all firmly on board....buttoned down, so to speak..
hence I think we need to let this run for a while before moving onto payment and production....let's give the regulars time to chip in too....especially on the collar...
And in the mean time one of us will go back to the manufacturer with these thoughts, as per ASP's attempt to batten them down above...afterall...we have to agree what we want changed PRECISELY....
but appreciate the comments;
I'll try to get some back-pics done outside this weekend and posted...
Cheers Paul
Good idea! I have no problem waiting a little longer in order to let everyone voice their opinions and concerns and to get all the small details ironed out. No point rushing it at this stage.
The collar looks fine to me. I think the initial shot with a combination of distance to the camera, angle, and shadow under the collar made it look larger. The cut looks great.
thanks
Also, in the shot of Craig the collar is folded sharply while in the mannequin pic the collar is spread pretty wide. When you take into account the sharp edge with some of the fabric being folded into the collar stand it looks right to me.
Believe me, Indy gear guys have been having this problem for years trying to replicate the perfect Raiders fedora. Perspective changes from motion cameras to still cameras to the naked eye.
Great work, guys -{
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj258/monza860/
and no, not too late to get on board....send ur measurements to simon's website (on a previous page....)
i think we'll give it a bit more time...
paul
I have spoken with teh shirt makers and they are going to work on the pattern alignment for teh placket and pocket, I hope I did not miss anything?
Its all coming together and im sure you will all be happy with the end result.
oh and teh measurement website is down temporarily I will have it back up ASAP and report back
seriously, thx si for chasing the tailor....
Thanks for addressing the issue. I assume then the back yoke was lined up on the prototype then? All sounds good. Thanks again guys, from the masses.
I'll have to respectfully disagree. You can see the yoke seam pretty clearly in the pics and that the florals and even the hash marks are lined up pretty well. Sorry to keep harping on these things, I just want everything perfect as I'm sure you guys do also. Thanks.
simon...let's ask the tailor to match exactly from now on, and send them the pics..
cheers