Writer's Strike

Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
I did a fair amount of reading today about the writer's strike and I have to say I don't understand it. The major issue os that the writers want a 2.5% residual on all internet downloads etc.. The studios don't want that becausethey say they are still developing the download business and aren't making any money on it yet. This was backed up by an accountant who has no side in this dispute, who stated the start up costs of the the donwload business is huge and most studios aren't making any money on it.

The way I see it, writers are employees who get paid for a product. Some get paid very handsomely, some not so well and some struggle. IMO, writers should be paid well, but I don't see how they should get royalties. The studios take all the risk in the project. For television shows they pay to develop pilots, from the pilots they select a few to put in the prime time line up, the vast majority of which are cancelled. For theatrical movies, the production costs are huge and only a few films actually make money. I think the writers should be paid up front and the studio should be able to monetize the product as they see fit.

All my opinion.
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Comments

  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    I'm pretty much indifferent to the entire strike. There are so many other venues available to the average person - DVD's, video games, foreign programming and, gasp!, books, that I just don't think American TV programming and films are as important as they once were. All this strike has shown me is how little new TV programming and films I actually watch. I think a lot of people feel the way I do and in the end the only ones really hurt by this strike will be the players who precipitated it in the first place.
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    The writers are attempting to prevent making the same mistake they made before...when they failed to realize how profitable home video, and eventually DVDs, became in the 90s. Their failure to factor in the eventual boom of home video put more money into the hands of the studios.

    The accountant is right. There is no money being made on internet as of yet. But it most likely will become a most viable medium in the coming decade.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    edited November 2007
    There are some theories out there which postulate that organized labour, as a whole, is in the midst of a very long and gradual decline into obsolescence, and that the Writers' Guild, in particular, gets less powerful each time they strike.

    I'm a firm believer that intellecual property ought to be protected, and equitably compensated when sold. It doesn't seem to me that a percentange of the proceeds, when intellectual property is electronically transacted, is an unreasonable demand. Members of the Screen Actors' Guild are entitled to residuals when their episodic TV work is re-run, or sold on DVD. Why shouldn't a writer, whose input is at least as important as the actor (since the actor has nothing to say or do without the writer!), be entitled to the same consideration?

    This is really a battle for the future, since (as indicated above) electronically transferred intellectual property isn't a profitable enterprise---yet. But I think it will be one day, and so do the unions. The WGA strike, currently underway, is being waged for the very same reasons the Directors' Guild and SAG will strike next July, failing some agreement before then. It is hoped by many in the industry that whatever agreement might be reached between the writers and studios might also serve as a template for the DGA and SAG---hence the added pressure, and the increased likelihood of a bitter and protracted struggle.

    Bookkeeping in the film industry is a fascinating thing; there are seemingly countless ways for a sufficiently-skilled accountant to show (if necessary :v ) that a blockbuster success really didn't make much of a profit at all; it's this sort of thing that will make it very difficult to tell exactly when electronically transacted media truly does become profitable :# Thus, the whole issue begins to resemble a snake eating its own tail :s

    Getting back to my original thought, about the declining effectiveness of unions...there's an abundance of statistical data which support such a notion, across the board. Hollywood is an industry town---a town of decidely specialized industry. This current dispute might serve as a microcosm of a much larger question---and it won't enjoy a definitive answer any time soon.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
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  • 72897289 Beau DesertPosts: 1,691MI6 Agent
    Seems to me...

    1) You can only put so many fingers into a pie.

    2) Studios have accoutants that would make both Congress and the Mafia proud.

    3) Judging by what I see on TV and Film, the writers are not held to very high standards. Just how often should hacks like Purvis and Wade be paid for something like DAD?

    4) Unlike written media, film & video are interpetations of the written source filtered through dozens of other "creative minds".

    5) Everyone should be entitled to negotiate their terms of employment.

    I hope it all resolves soon!
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    7289 wrote:
    Seems to me...

    1) You can only put so many fingers into a pie.

    The bottom line is that, after WGA and then SAG and all the other interested parties are done, DVD prices are probably going to go up.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    darenhat wrote:
    7289 wrote:
    Seems to me...

    1) You can only put so many fingers into a pie.

    The bottom line is that, after WGA and then SAG and all the other interested parties are done, DVD prices are probably going to go up.

    ...and sales will go down. Just look at how the hi-def DVD formats have floundered; and that is due in no small part to the high prices. It's so bad that sites like Amazon.com are discounting some titles by as much as 50%. There's a consumer expectation that no typical movie on DVD should have an MSRP of more that $20-$25, and that's before any discounts are applied; anything more and it usually stays on the shelf.
  • PendragonPendragon ColoradoPosts: 2,640MI6 Agent
    the thing that worries me about all this is that my favorite TV show, House M.D,. has hardly any new episodes left to air...I'll go insane if they start airing re-runs...:s :'(

    I hadn't even thought about DVD prices/sales...:#

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  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Pendragon wrote:
    the thing that worries me about all this is that my favorite TV show, House M.D,. has hardly any new episodes left to air...I'll go insane if they start airing re-runs...:s :'

    I imagine US schedules are either going to see a lot of repeats starting early next year, or a huge rise in reality TV shows. I know 24 has been put on hold and Heroes may have an abbreviated 2nd season. I hear also that The Daily Show and other shows like Letterman have been affected or pulled from the schedules. Have there been any other repercussions? What's the media coverage like in the States? There's been a bit on the news over here, and it's been in favour of the WGA.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited November 2007
    John Drake wrote:
    Pendragon wrote:
    the thing that worries me about all this is that my favorite TV show, House M.D,. has hardly any new episodes left to air...I'll go insane if they start airing re-runs...:s :'

    I imagine US schedules are either going to see a lot of repeats starting early next year, or a huge rise in reality TV shows. I know 24 has been put on hold and Heroes may have an abbreviated 2nd season. I hear also that The Daily Show and other shows like Letterman have been affected or pulled from the schedules. Have there been any other repercussions? What's the media coverage like in the States? There's been a bit on the news over here, and it's been in favour of the WGA.

    Oddly enough John, the entertainment trades are covering the story but I haven't seen much coverage at all in the mainstream media. As you said, so much of the programming on TV here in America is "reality" based, and the late night shows have always been something of a niche market. Movies affected by the strike probably don't even have a release date yet (although Angels and Demons, the sequel to Davinci Code was just pushed back).

    The saddest part of the strike is that other people - stage hands, technicians, carpenters and of course actors to name a few - are also out of work; so it is starting to have a trickle down effect.

    But in the end, I don't think the average TV watcher/moviegoer is really noticing the strike all that much at this time and probably won't be affected by it for at least a few more weeks.
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    TonyDP wrote:
    All this strike has shown me is how little new TV programming and films I actually watch.
    Same here. If the strike drags on and delays the next season of Mad Men, I may get upset. However, until then, I personally am far more impacted by the stagehands' strike of Broadway. I have already had one evening at the theater cancelled, and if the strike goes on through the 27th (likely, given Thanksgiving) I will have to cancel a second.
    Hilly...you old devil!
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    I remember during one of the previous writers strikes, Johnny Carson wrote his own material and kept doing his show. I guess the recent late night guys aren't up to the task.

    I don't watch any network television shows so I don't really care about the strike in regards to television, I do hope it ends before the movie schedules are completed.

    The hollywood unions are a strange mix of a minority of working members and a majority non-working members. Several years ago SAG had a battle within the union itself between the working and non-working members over benefits and dues etc.

    As stated previously I think everyone should be fairly compensated upfront and then let the studios figure out to monitize the product. As Loeffs stated, the show business accounting standards are strange to say the least. Seems to me, 5 million for a script is pretty good. The studios deserve the biggest part of the pie because they are taking all the risk.

    Tony - don't get me started on the hi def DVD thing, I don't think too many people are going to invest in any player until a winner is declared in the format war.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    When it comes to dealing with complex issues, few are wiser than this man. Here he tackles the writers strike and offers some advice for the WGA in dealing with the studios, or profit-eating behemoth's.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qabTVV2wqLU
  • 00-Agent00-Agent CaliforniaPosts: 453MI6 Agent
    I have heard two interesting comments on the writer's strike.

    1) If they are not making any money off the internet then why not just agree. After all 2% of 0 is 0.

    2) It is just some really lucky people argueing with some really lucky people.

    Personally, my only concern with the strike is if it affects Bond 22. The wait is killing me. I have so many hours of TV waiting on my DVR that it will take months for me to catch up to the latest shows anyway.
    "A blunt instrument wielded by a Government department. Hard, ruthless, sardonic, fatalistic. He likes gambling, golf, fast motor cars. All his movements are relaxed and economical". Ian Fleming
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    I have attached an article concerning the latest on the strike. You may get a welcome screen when you click on the link, but you can hit the skip button when it comes up.

    A couple things I found interesting in the article, the union states they want jurisdiction over downloads on the internet. Funny how the studios have to develop and build out the process and infrastructure, but then the union gets jurisdiction.

    The union wants 2.5% of the "gross", of course they want the gross because as of right now digital downloads is "netting" nothing.

    The studios counter offer is $250.00 a year, which isn't very much, but if you aren't making any money on something it doesn't make any sense to increase your cost structure even more.

    I still think writers should be compensated up front and then the studio should take ownership of the product to monetize as they see fit.

    http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/12/06/ap4411018.html
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    The union wants 2.5% of the "gross", of course they want the gross because as of right now digital downloads is "netting" nothing.

    As far as I can tell, most downloads and streaming of TV shows is done in breach of copyright, so the only people making money are the creators of websites or download software. This really could go on for a while. And with the Director's Guild, and the Actor's Guild set to strike for the same reason, we might have to start making our own TV shows.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Interesting developments over the last few days. The Golden Globes have been cancelled, due to the Screen Actor's Guild and it's members refusing attend the ceremony.

    http://www.variety.com/VR1117978598.html

    But what could prove even more significant is that Tom Cruise of all people, has gone the other way, and negotiated a deal between United Artists, the studio he co-runs with Paula Wagner, and the WGA that enables writers to work on their projects, without crossing the picket line. If he's willing to meet the demands of the writers, then maybe other studios will break ranks and follow suit.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    Interesting developments over the last few days. The Golden Globes have been cancelled, due to the Screen Actor's Guild and it's members refusing attend the ceremony.

    http://www.variety.com/VR1117978598.html

    But what could prove even more significant is that Tom Cruise of all people, has gone the other way, and negotiated a deal between United Artists, the studio he co-runs with Paula Wagner, and the WGA that enables writers to work on their projects, without crossing the picket line. If he's willing to meet the demands of the writers, then maybe other studios will break ranks and follow suit.

    I've also read that the Peoples' Choice Awards are going to be greatly simplified as a result of the strike and SAG members' unwillingness to cross the picket lines. This one bugs me a little bit more than the Golden Globes because the awards are voted on by the fans. It's one thing to skip out on events organized by the people you're striking against, but walking out on something like the Peoples' Choice show is a little like biting the hand that feeds you in my eyes.

    I still think this whole strike is a misguided effort, but I'm not a big fan of most unions these days. Still, if people like Cruise and David Letterman can overcome the gridlock and get their people working again, more power to them.
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    Tom Cruise is in a dangerous place. His current project 'Valkyrie' is way over budget with little chance of recovering and, having already taken a hit with his flop "Lions for Lambs", his newly-owned UA is poised to topple like a house of cheap playing cards. Negotiating with the Writer's Guild is his only hope of getting a fresh and much more viable project to save the studio.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    If he's willing to meet the demands of the writers, then maybe other studios will break ranks and follow suit.

    It looks like The Weinstein Company is about to become the second studio to negotiate a deal with the WGA.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HOLLYWOOD_LABOR_WEINSTEIN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-01-10-17-31-51
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    The thing both of those studios have in common is lack of funds. Both studios have released several movies recently that have not performed well. They simply can't afford to sit around for months hoping for an end to the strike.
  • The Sly FoxThe Sly Fox USAPosts: 467MI6 Agent
    edited January 2008
    TonyDP wrote:
    darenhat wrote:
    7289 wrote:
    Seems to me...

    1) You can only put so many fingers into a pie.

    The bottom line is that, after WGA and then SAG and all the other interested parties are done, DVD prices are probably going to go up.

    ...and sales will go down. Just look at how the hi-def DVD formats have floundered; and that is due in no small part to the high prices. It's so bad that sites like Amazon.com are discounting some titles by as much as 50%. There's a consumer expectation that no typical movie on DVD should have an MSRP of more that $20-$25, and that's before any discounts are applied; anything more and it usually stays on the shelf.

    I've been saying this for years, but the only way they're going to see a decline in piracy is to lower the prices on their DVDs. I personally cannot justify spending $20-25 on a movie I'll probably only watch once when I can just as easily rent it for far less. If DVD prices increase or even stay the same, I think the only way out is online rentals. Netflix and Blockbuster have some excellent deals on unlimited rentals for a flat fee. Cable and Satellite On-Demand services also seem to be a viable alternative, although they're rather pricey. Not to mention you usually don't get the option of widescreen--everything tends to be in fullscreen... :#

    As for online streaming video rentals, the prospect seems dubious at best. The price will probably be the same if not more, most likely for inferior quality. I mean how good can it be at current Internet speeds? Even with broadband, most servers can't even come close to maxing out a user's connection. This is why I don't download music off iTunes and whatnot--you still pay roughly the same price as you would for the actual CD, only for a cheap 128kbps MP3. If I'm paying the premium, I want lossless quality. I don't doubt streaming video rentals will suffer from the same problem.


    ...Sorry for the ramblings, carry on. :)
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    The Golden Globes winners were announced at a press conference, rather than in a ceremony on TV. Not seeing the Golden Globes is one thing, but if the Oscars get affected, it will be difficult for me to maintain sympathy for the writers. Their issues are legitimate but stay away from my Oscars. X-(
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 6,001MI6 Agent
    Well this is the thing about strikes: the object is always to cause upset to others (many of them blameless) because a small amount of people want, usually, more money. And that's a situation which gets harder and harder to sympathise with as more and more people are caused trouble and loss of earnings through no fault of their own.
    I'm a creative myself (I work in the design industry) and if I expected to get royalties for everything I come up with when clients pay me to produce something for them (effectively buying it off me) I'd be a much richer person!
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Dan Same wrote:
    Not seeing the Golden Globes is one thing, but if the Oscars get affected, it will be difficult for me to maintain sympathy for the writers. Their issues are legitimate but stay away from my Oscars. X-(

    The Oscars have to go down. There's no point in the WGA coming this far and then flinching at this point. And it's the perfect year to postpone them, if only for matters of taste. It looks like Atonement, dribbling pish that it is, may be the front runner. So I say cancel them. :v
  • Red IndianRed Indian BostonPosts: 427MI6 Agent
    edited January 2008
    I don't think they should flinch either. Quite frankly, this strike is the best thing to happen in a long time. I'm not missing any of the nonsense they put on TV here.

    Did anyone catch the Converse ad that referenced the strike? I almost fell over! It basically said "With nothing but reality shows and reruns on, why don't get off the couch and DO something about your unforgotten place in history!" Amen!
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    edited January 2008
    Red Indian wrote:
    I don't think they should flinch either. Quite frankly, this strike is the best thing to happen in a long time. I'm not missing any of the nonsense they put on TV here.


    Me neither. Although I am OD'ed on all of the reality shows that are on...EVEN MORE NOW. 8-)

    I wonder if the trickle-down effect will be anything like the baseball strike of '94?

    You have to think that the industry will try and win the jilted fans back first before sticking it to us down the road...
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  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    I am seriously missing Lost and 24, both of which should be airing now. :(
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    {:) This post has been nomimated as AJB's most cynical comment of '08

    I don't mean to step on any toes, but I find this whole thing absolutely hilarious!

    Hopefully, a few novels and classic films will be accessable to the working stiff who misses all the Leno and Conan scripted zingers. Oh, and all those mindless home theater movie experiences too!

    Am I supposed to care what happens to a bunch of talentless hacks because of this shameless self serving display from writers and representatives of a hollywood picket line? Their astronomical movie budgets and crap television shows are obscene and downright vulgar anyhow!

    Screw 'em! {:)
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    John Drake wrote:
    I am seriously missing Lost and 24, both of which should be airing now. :(

    Lost should be starting up soon. Its absence has nothing to do with the strike. ABC purposely pushed back the debut of Season 4 so that the series can run non-stop with new episodes without seasonal breaks or re-runs (with the idea that this would retain viewers throughout the season). The downside of this was that the DVD release of the previous season, which is usually right before the beginning of the new season, was also delay to December. As a result, I had to wait an additional 5-6 months to get caught up with the story. X-(

    Last I heard, the entire season 4 of Lost is written so the strike should have no effect.

    Don't know anything about 24 though.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited January 2008
    Alex wrote:
    {:) This post has been nomimated as AJB's most cynical comment of '08

    I don't mean to step on any toes, but I find this whole thing absolutely hilarious!

    Hopefully, a few novels and classic films will be accessable to the working stiff who misses all the Leno and Conan scripted zingers. Oh, and all those mindless home theater movie experiences too!

    Am I supposed to care what happens to a bunch of talentless hacks because of this shameless self serving display from writers and representatives of a hollywood picket line? Their astronomical movie budgets and crap television shows are obscene and downright vulgar anyhow!

    Screw 'em! {:)

    And I thought I was cynical. :)) :)) :))

    I was reading that the average network TV writer makes between $500,000 and $2,000,000 per season. Now I know that not everyone in the WGA makes that kind of money but given those kinds of salaries, and the quality of most of the garbage fed down peoples throats on network TV, I don't have much sympathy for them either since those overpaid writers are probably the ones who will reap the most benefit from any new contract.
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