Emtiem guard rails here do NOT include that type of pole.. I have no idea why the car has those things in the photo, but I have seen footage during TV news, not photos, footage, and there were no poles in the car. Guard rails here are made to keep people safe, not to kill them. )
Since I drive down that road every other day, I have a very clear idea of what they look like, and those small poles are nowhere to be found in guard rails.
Guard rails here have got none of those small little poles. So either he hit something else on the way down or, since in the footage there weren't any poles in the car being taken out of the water (and by the way there weren't any even when they showed the car being taken away with the truck), those poles are there to hold the car still since in that conditions clearly it doesn't have any working brakes.
Regarding the speed: A) the fact he was driving along with a Fiat means nothing, a Fiat can easily go at 140 km per hour and more, and driving even at a 80 km per hour speed on those roads is a HUGE hazard. The speed limit is 50 per hour. And to further prove that police are stupid everywhere? The driver who fell into the water got a ticket for driving at speeds which were WAY above the limit. Courtesy of the Riva del Garda police ) They didn't specify what the speed was.
ETA: he DID Hit something else, which is not the guard rail but the balcony type of rails for people who walk by.. he hit the road in two different places, I hadn't seen the second one. I saw the place where he hit the guard rail, which isn't white but grey. And the guard rail sent him back on the road... and subsequently, having lost control, he hit the little balcony thing. Now things are clearer. And the photo I saw had MANY poles in grey to keep the car still once taken out of the water.
Those were removed when they put the car on the truck.. there was only the wrecked Aston Martin, without any pole.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Yesterday they filmed a scene where one of the cars crashes into a truck...(that was in the script, was supposed to be that way) and things got out of control, in that the scene was a bit too "realistic". Basically the accident became a real accident and the stuntman had to be taken to hospital. He's gonna be ok, nothing bad.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Emtiem guard rails here do NOT include that type of pole.. I have no idea why the car has those things in the photo, but I have seen footage during TV news, not photos, footage, and there were no poles in the car. Guard rails here are made to keep people safe, not to kill them. )
Alessandra; please use your eyes and look at this photo: http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00473/bond02_682_473397a.jpg
Those are the guard rails sticking out of the car. You can see exactly the same mounting in the background as on the one sticking out of the car. And they're rusty, for heavens sake. Are you saying that the police or removal team would stick rusty old poles into the car? That's ridiculous!
Guard rails here have got none of those small little poles. So either he hit something else on the way down or, since in the footage there weren't any poles in the car being taken out of the water
Show me a photo of it being taken out of the water without the poles sticking out of the sides.
The proof is right there in those photos! You'll be trying to tell me that the sky is green next! 8-)
(and by the way there weren't any even when they showed the car being taken away with the truck), those poles are there to hold the car still since in that conditions clearly it doesn't have any working brakes.
I'm sorry; but that's just nonsense. If the car was in danger of rolling away (and as the wheels aren't on straight anymore and most of it is resting on the ground, there's not much danger of that) they'd stick chucks under the wheels. You wouldn't call up Superman and ask him to rip off two rusty bits of guard rail and ram them through the car! )
Heh! It's a shame but pretty par for the course, I think- I'm sure they know that accidents can happen! A Vanquish got mostly destroyed when they were shooting the ice chase in DAD when the stnt driver lost control; there's even footage of the Ferrari and DB5 crashing into each other when they were shooting the GoldenEye chase, so to hear that a smash went a little wrong isn't totally surprising I suppose.
007: new accident on set
A stuntman injured, curse on the film
New accident on the set of the last 007 film Quantum of Solace: a stuntman has been injured, apparently seriously, during a scene that involved a car and a lorry, in Limone on the Garda Lake (Brescia). The stuntman was behind the wheel of the car that hit the lorry. The man has been admitted to the resuscitation department at the Borgo Trento hospital of Verona.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited April 2008
emtiem, the poles are indeed from the railings. They were recovered from the water and stuck in the Aston by the salvage divers making it easier to get them on dry land again and saving them from doing two salvage trips. They did'nt end up in there during the crash itself.
emtiem, the poles are indeed from the railings. They were recovered from the water and stuck in the Aston by the salvage divers making it easier to get them on dry land again and saving them from doing two salvage trips. They did'nt end up in there during the crash itself.
How would you tear a ten foot pole through the bodywork of a car underwater? How would you see these poles on the bed of a deep lake? Why wouldn't you just leave them? If you had to take them up, why not just put them in the windows instead of tearing large gashes in the bodywork using your superhuman strength? No; I don't think so.
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
Got to agree with emtiem on this one - how DO you smash those poles into the car? That having been said, they were at odd angles to be from the crash, so who knows.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited April 2008
They are'nt smashed into the bodywork, just chucked in through the window and stuck through the webbing and axle gaps and holes already there. The larger part is even secured. It would be pretty much imposible for a car to get skewered like that by all of the railing parts in the same direction just by rolling into them, the physics just won't work. Plus the large one through the passenger compartment would have killed the driver outright.
Quite easy to see these poles underwater, that's what the salvage people get paid for, and collecting them up in one mass and putting them into the car is standard salvage practice. And you would'nt leave even the tiniest part of the wreck or railing as it all adds to the RTC investigation into the incident.
This picture shows that the poles are going through pre-existing damage that was not made by the poles skewering. the fact that it is sticking out of the opposite window shows it would have killed the driver. No superhuman strength needed by the divers.
Physically impossible by any standards that they could have got into that position from impact unless the poles were sticking out pointy bit first at right angles to the road.
.................................
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited April 2008
I have to say, that makes perfect sense, Asp9mm. Having all of these poles magically impale the Aston (at the angles shown), as it left the road, is highly unlikely.
Great thread. Wish it had been around when the Warren Commission spent big $$$ looking into JFK's assassination {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well, nobody can complain this film is all CGI. As much as we all want to see good action footage, none of us want to see anyone injured. I hope the filmmakers don't push the envelope too much in an effort to top other action films. Then again, this kind of tradeoff is to be expected when you're going for reality-based action.
But maybe they should stick to putting Bond in jeopardy by having him confront a plunging neckline for a while.
It is hard for me to admit: Kudos to Asp9mm, who came up with a proper explanation about these poles.
These are matching with Alessandras observations and the pics, so the poles are not rail guards but balcony rails for pedestrians that has been damaged on the DBS conversation into a submarine. And it makes perfectly sense to salvage them together with the DBS for later investigation.
Man, I knew, that one day, one fine day, you would come up with a well-thought-thru, constructive and non-insulting post {[]
The only thing, which puzzles me is the fact, that these poles have been used to spike this car like a piece of deer, but it may be the result of revenge thoughts by the italian car manufacturers )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Heh! It's a shame but pretty par for the course, I think- I'm sure they know that accidents can happen! A Vanquish got mostly destroyed when they were shooting the ice chase in DAD when the stnt driver lost control; there's even footage of the Ferrari and DB5 crashing into each other when they were shooting the GoldenEye chase, so to hear that a smash went a little wrong isn't totally surprising I suppose.
well, the deeper sense of my question was, if the crash involved another DBS, or other car types. My italian is a bit rusty, so, does the news say, which type of car has been "converted"?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Accident on set yesterday between car and truck: update.
Unfortunately the accident is far more serious than at first thought.
TWO stuntmen injured, and one of them is in very, very critical condition at the Verona hospital. The other is in Arco (it's a minor, small hospital, means he's got no serious injuries). Filming has been suspended.
The accident took place in Tremosine, which is the town with the fabulous roads I put photos of in the other thread. I knew they would've had problems there... damn. That is one dangerous place to drive to even for locals who are professional sports drivers (like my neighbour who competes in rallies for example ), let alone foreign stuntmen filming a scene.
They should pay more attention though.. this is not your typical European road, it's very narrow, it has a 10% gradient in some traits, tunnels right after "blind" turns... it's unclear what the dynamic of the accident was for now, but crashing a car into a truck on a road like that is by no means anything that can be done easily or safely, no matter how expert the stunts are. I'm very sorry for the whole matter.
ASPm, thank you for your observations.. as I had said at first, those things had been PUT there for the car to be still and I, too, said it was impossible for the car to have those stuck through horizontally when it hit the balcony poles with the roof.. what you say makes perfect sense. Again, those are not guard rails for cars, those are for people who walk by and want to look down at the "panorama" as we say in Italian
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
They are'nt smashed into the bodywork, just chucked in through the window and stuck through the webbing and axle gaps and holes already there. The larger part is even secured. It would be pretty much imposible for a car to get skewered like that by all of the railing parts in the same direction just by rolling into them, the physics just won't work. Plus the large one through the passenger compartment would have killed the driver outright.
Sorry but no- here you can see the railing sticking out of the gash its torn down the bodywork. In the pics from the other side you can see it sticking out. Luckily it was a left hand drive and didn't intrude into the passenger compartment on the left as much as it did on the right:
I'd guess that the car somehow got on top of the railings and they just cut through the bodywork. At the rear the powered wheels appear to have twisted them up into the wheelarch.
Quite easy to see these poles underwater, that's what the salvage people get paid for, and collecting them up in one mass and putting them into the car is standard salvage practice. And you would'nt leave even the tiniest part of the wreck or railing as it all adds to the RTC investigation into the incident.
But you would stick massive bits of railing into the wreck? Would the investigation not want to know why they damaged the car more than they had to?
This picture shows that the poles are going through pre-existing damage that was not made by the poles skewering. the fact that it is sticking out of the opposite window shows it would have killed the driver. No superhuman strength needed by the divers.
So what made the pole-shaped gash (that the pole is sticking out of) in the passenger door?
It's fair to assume that's the same pole we see sticking out near the front wheelarch on the driver's(left) side- that's a long pole to somehow manoeuvre through a mangled crashed wreck. Underwater.
Physically impossible by any standards that they could have got into that position from impact unless the poles were sticking out pointy bit first at right angles to the road.
Not at all- the car hit them more or less head-on; that's why they're effectively perpendicular to the car. They didn't skewer the car like a cocktail stick; they sliced through it like cheesewire and then broke off from their mountings.
Accident on set yesterday between car and truck: update.
Unfortunately the accident is far more serious than at first thought.
TWO stuntmen seriously injured, and one of them is in very, very critical condition at the Verona hospital. The other is in Arco (it's a minor, small hospital, means he's got no serious injuries). Filming has been halted.
Yes I posted about this last night- apparently the Alfa was shooting a stunt involving a truck: two Alfa 159s and a lorry were involved. The first Alfa was supposed to crash into the lorry and had dummies in it, but the second one, which was driven by stuntmen, wasn't supposed to. Unfortunately, the first car got dragged by the lorry, got unhooked and swept into the car with the two stuntmen. Their car broke through the protective wall along the road, and ended up balanced above the lake.
Apparently there was another accident the other day whilst shooting the same stunt, but the stuntman wasn't so badly injured then. The Greek stuntman from yesterday has been treated for head injuries, some reports say. I hope he's okay.
Actually the local news says the details of the accident are not known and they weren't even sure whether it was the Alfa involved..Since Messaggero is in Rome I would not trust them too much ) I reported the first accident with no serious consequences yesterday, that was from the day before. But this new one forced them to suspend filming. And one of the two stuntmen is in very serious conditions, risking his life. The stuntman risking his life is the same one who had the accident on Tuesday and was taken to hospital, but since doctors said he was doing just fine, he went back on set to film and then had this other accident yesterday. Now he's in the intensive care unit at the Verona hospital and he's in extremely critical conditions.
What the Messaggero report says anyway is that the car involved hit the truck and then smashed into a wall, partially destroying it.
As far as the poles, sorry but no way those got stuck in the car during the accident. Absolutely illogical and impossible phisically speaking because of the direction they're stuck into, especially since the car was upside down when it hit the balcony rails. And when they take cars out of the lake they ALWAYS stick stuff in them in order to be able to manoeuver them more easily in the water, it's neither weird nor unusual. I saw them take a small lorry out of the water in Salo' once and it had bigger poles than these stuck in to manoeuver it, yet it had fallen in the water in a place where there were no railings whatsoever (it was on a private road near a parking lot).
You cannot hook and manouver a car underwater if it's a wreck, it's not like you can move it easily in the appropriate ways to hook it and take it out without having points to hold on to. That's why they do it.
"Are we on coms?" (if you don't know where this is from... you've missed some really good stuff! )
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
As far as the poles, sorry but no way those got stuck in the car during the accident. Absolutely illogical and impossible phisically speaking, especially since the car was upside down when it hit the balcony rails.
Ths is true, it is against all physical laws that the poles could spear a car from an oblique angle. But emtiem will never be convinced, so lets move along
Seems like this production is going to be expensive due to wrecked cars, I hope all concerned recover so we don't have a grey cloud hanging over the film.
Actually the local news says the details of the accident are not known and they weren't even sure whether it was the Alfa involved..Since Messaggero is in Rome I would not trust them too much ) I reported the first accident with no serious consequences yesterday, that was from the day before. But this new one forced them to suspend filming. And one of the two stuntmen is in very serious conditions, risking his life.
Yes- I'd only heard about this serious one yesterday; I didn't realise there had been one before. Apparently both were when shooting the same stunt. And it was the 159; it seems plenty of sources say so.
It's the third accident, it seems.
As far as the poles, sorry but no way those got stuck in the car during the accident. Absolutely illogical and impossible phisically speaking, especially since the car was upside down when it hit the balcony rails.
And when they take cars out of the lake they ALWAYS stick stuff in them in order to be able to manoeuver them more easily in the water, it's neither weird nor unusual. I saw them take a small lorry out of the water in Salo' once and it had bigger poles than these stuck in to manoeuver it, yet it had fallen in the water in a place where there were no railings whatsoever (it was on a private road near a parking lot).
You cannot hook and manouver a car underwater if it's a wreck, it's not like you can move it easily in the appropriate ways to hook it and take it out without having points to hold on to. That's why they do it.
I'm sorry Alessandra, but I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Yesterday you said that they took the car out of the water without the railings, now you say they were in it when they took it out. It doesn't make any sense as to how they'd stick that massive one through it when it was underwater, it makes perfect sense that the railing cut through the car when it crashed through them and stayed in it. It makes no sense at all that they would gently push some old bits of railing into the bodywork (into holes that appear to have been torn by railings) in order to move around the entire car. You couldn't push a bit of railing into a car hard enough underwater for them to be stable enough to move an entire car enough.
As far as the poles, sorry but no way those got stuck in the car during the accident. Absolutely illogical and impossible phisically speaking, especially since the car was upside down when it hit the balcony rails.
Ths is true, it is against all physical laws that the poles could spear a car from an oblique angle. But emtiem will never be convinced, so lets move along
Please read my post- I even put a picture in it. They didn't spear the car, they cut through it longitudinally. Like cheesewire.
Comments
Since I drive down that road every other day, I have a very clear idea of what they look like, and those small poles are nowhere to be found in guard rails.
Guard rails here have got none of those small little poles. So either he hit something else on the way down or, since in the footage there weren't any poles in the car being taken out of the water (and by the way there weren't any even when they showed the car being taken away with the truck), those poles are there to hold the car still since in that conditions clearly it doesn't have any working brakes.
Regarding the speed: A) the fact he was driving along with a Fiat means nothing, a Fiat can easily go at 140 km per hour and more, and driving even at a 80 km per hour speed on those roads is a HUGE hazard. The speed limit is 50 per hour. And
ETA: he DID Hit something else, which is not the guard rail but the balcony type of rails for people who walk by.. he hit the road in two different places, I hadn't seen the second one. I saw the place where he hit the guard rail, which isn't white but grey. And the guard rail sent him back on the road... and subsequently, having lost control, he hit the little balcony thing. Now things are clearer. And the photo I saw had MANY poles in grey to keep the car still once taken out of the water.
Those were removed when they put the car on the truck.. there was only the wrecked Aston Martin, without any pole.
News:
NEW ACCIDENT ON SET.
Yesterday they filmed a scene where one of the cars crashes into a truck...(that was in the script, was supposed to be that way) and things got out of control, in that the scene was a bit too "realistic". Basically the accident became a real accident and the stuntman had to be taken to hospital. He's gonna be ok, nothing bad.
So, does this mean, another writeoff on a DBS?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
And yeah I'm afraid.. another DBS bites the dust
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Markie Mark better than Bond.. scary!! :O :O
Oh, no need to worry, we are all paying for this with our cinema bills and our recent purchases at our local Aston Martin Dealers
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Did I outscore Loeffelholz for this time? ;%
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Alessandra; please use your eyes and look at this photo:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00473/bond02_682_473397a.jpg
Those are the guard rails sticking out of the car. You can see exactly the same mounting in the background as on the one sticking out of the car. And they're rusty, for heavens sake. Are you saying that the police or removal team would stick rusty old poles into the car? That's ridiculous!
Except that there are:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00473/bond03_682_473399a.jpg
Show me a photo of it being taken out of the water without the poles sticking out of the sides.
The proof is right there in those photos! You'll be trying to tell me that the sky is green next! 8-)
I'm sorry; but that's just nonsense. If the car was in danger of rolling away (and as the wheels aren't on straight anymore and most of it is resting on the ground, there's not much danger of that) they'd stick chucks under the wheels. You wouldn't call up Superman and ask him to rip off two rusty bits of guard rail and ram them through the car!
Heh! It's a shame but pretty par for the course, I think- I'm sure they know that accidents can happen!
http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/spettacolo/articoli/articolo410635.shtml
This article says that another person was hurt too:
http://qn.quotidiano.net/spettacoli/2008/04/23/83078-ancora_incidenti_james_bond_feriti.shtml
Let's hope that the story isn't quite true yet.
http://www.leggonline.it/articolo.php?id=8008
How would you tear a ten foot pole through the bodywork of a car underwater? How would you see these poles on the bed of a deep lake? Why wouldn't you just leave them? If you had to take them up, why not just put them in the windows instead of tearing large gashes in the bodywork using your superhuman strength? No; I don't think so.
Quite easy to see these poles underwater, that's what the salvage people get paid for, and collecting them up in one mass and putting them into the car is standard salvage practice. And you would'nt leave even the tiniest part of the wreck or railing as it all adds to the RTC investigation into the incident.
This picture shows that the poles are going through pre-existing damage that was not made by the poles skewering. the fact that it is sticking out of the opposite window shows it would have killed the driver. No superhuman strength needed by the divers.
Physically impossible by any standards that they could have got into that position from impact unless the poles were sticking out pointy bit first at right angles to the road.
Great thread. Wish it had been around when the Warren Commission spent big $$$ looking into JFK's assassination {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
But maybe they should stick to putting Bond in jeopardy by having him confront a plunging neckline for a while.
These are matching with Alessandras observations and the pics, so the poles are not rail guards but balcony rails for pedestrians that has been damaged on the DBS conversation into a submarine. And it makes perfectly sense to salvage them together with the DBS for later investigation.
Man, I knew, that one day, one fine day, you would come up with a well-thought-thru, constructive and non-insulting post {[]
The only thing, which puzzles me is the fact, that these poles have been used to spike this car like a piece of deer, but it may be the result of revenge thoughts by the italian car manufacturers
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
well, the deeper sense of my question was, if the crash involved another DBS, or other car types. My italian is a bit rusty, so, does the news say, which type of car has been "converted"?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iFNaBoYIwkC6o-ETdpUNP29NntWA
Hopefully this sort of thing doesn't continue. I wonder how much it will affect the filming.
Unfortunately the accident is far more serious than at first thought.
TWO stuntmen injured, and one of them is in very, very critical condition at the Verona hospital. The other is in Arco (it's a minor, small hospital, means he's got no serious injuries). Filming has been suspended.
The accident took place in Tremosine, which is the town with the fabulous roads I put photos of in the other thread. I knew they would've had problems there... damn. That is one dangerous place to drive to even for locals who are professional sports drivers (like my neighbour who competes in rallies for example
They should pay more attention though.. this is not your typical European road, it's very narrow, it has a 10% gradient in some traits, tunnels right after "blind" turns... it's unclear what the dynamic of the accident was for now, but crashing a car into a truck on a road like that is by no means anything that can be done easily or safely, no matter how expert the stunts are. I'm very sorry for the whole matter.
ASPm, thank you for your observations.. as I had said at first, those things had been PUT there for the car to be still and I, too, said it was impossible for the car to have those stuck through horizontally when it hit the balcony poles with the roof.. what you say makes perfect sense. Again, those are not guard rails for cars, those are for people who walk by and want to look down at the "panorama" as we say in Italian
Sorry but no- here you can see the railing sticking out of the gash its torn down the bodywork. In the pics from the other side you can see it sticking out. Luckily it was a left hand drive and didn't intrude into the passenger compartment on the left as much as it did on the right:
I'd guess that the car somehow got on top of the railings and they just cut through the bodywork. At the rear the powered wheels appear to have twisted them up into the wheelarch.
But you would stick massive bits of railing into the wreck? Would the investigation not want to know why they damaged the car more than they had to?
So what made the pole-shaped gash (that the pole is sticking out of) in the passenger door?
It's fair to assume that's the same pole we see sticking out near the front wheelarch on the driver's(left) side- that's a long pole to somehow manoeuvre through a mangled crashed wreck. Underwater.
Not at all- the car hit them more or less head-on; that's why they're effectively perpendicular to the car. They didn't skewer the car like a cocktail stick; they sliced through it like cheesewire and then broke off from their mountings.
Yes I posted about this last night- apparently the Alfa was shooting a stunt involving a truck: two Alfa 159s and a lorry were involved. The first Alfa was supposed to crash into the lorry and had dummies in it, but the second one, which was driven by stuntmen, wasn't supposed to. Unfortunately, the first car got dragged by the lorry, got unhooked and swept into the car with the two stuntmen. Their car broke through the protective wall along the road, and ended up balanced above the lake.
Apparently there was another accident the other day whilst shooting the same stunt, but the stuntman wasn't so badly injured then. The Greek stuntman from yesterday has been treated for head injuries, some reports say. I hope he's okay.
The filming today has been cancelled whilst they investigate this accident:
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo.php?id=23057&sez=HOME_INITALIA
What the Messaggero report says anyway is that the car involved hit the truck and then smashed into a wall, partially destroying it.
As far as the poles, sorry but no way those got stuck in the car during the accident. Absolutely illogical and impossible phisically speaking because of the direction they're stuck into, especially since the car was upside down when it hit the balcony rails. And when they take cars out of the lake they ALWAYS stick stuff in them in order to be able to manoeuver them more easily in the water, it's neither weird nor unusual. I saw them take a small lorry out of the water in Salo' once and it had bigger poles than these stuck in to manoeuver it, yet it had fallen in the water in a place where there were no railings whatsoever (it was on a private road near a parking lot).
You cannot hook and manouver a car underwater if it's a wreck, it's not like you can move it easily in the appropriate ways to hook it and take it out without having points to hold on to. That's why they do it.
Ths is true, it is against all physical laws that the poles could spear a car from an oblique angle. But emtiem will never be convinced, so lets move along
Seems like this production is going to be expensive due to wrecked cars, I hope all concerned recover so we don't have a grey cloud hanging over the film.
Hope everyone involved is OK, but you've really got to question the stuntmen's skill........did they do rehearsals etc?
Wonder if the accidents will make it on to the bonus features of the DVD!
Yes- I'd only heard about this serious one yesterday; I didn't realise there had been one before. Apparently both were when shooting the same stunt. And it was the 159; it seems plenty of sources say so.
It's the third accident, it seems.
How do you work that out?
I'm sorry Alessandra, but I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Yesterday you said that they took the car out of the water without the railings, now you say they were in it when they took it out. It doesn't make any sense as to how they'd stick that massive one through it when it was underwater, it makes perfect sense that the railing cut through the car when it crashed through them and stayed in it. It makes no sense at all that they would gently push some old bits of railing into the bodywork (into holes that appear to have been torn by railings) in order to move around the entire car. You couldn't push a bit of railing into a car hard enough underwater for them to be stable enough to move an entire car enough.
Please read my post- I even put a picture in it. They didn't spear the car, they cut through it longitudinally. Like cheesewire.