Jaws falling in love

Boris07

It's something a lot of fans hate but I think it need not have been!

If in Moonraker, Jaws had fell in love with a Amazonian style woman (a bit like May Day from AVTAK) it would have been ok, but the fact he fell in love with someone who looked like a young schoolgirl really was going too far.

does anyone else agree?

stjimmy456

)

I always loved that they fell instantly in love, at first sight. I bet she'd been looking for a seven foot man with metal fangs for so long and was just about to give up hope.

And such a good listener too...

Napoleon Plural

Originally he was to have fallen for a similar type but Richard Kiel thought it 'heighist' after all his other half in real life was short. And Cubby B took it on board. Anyhow, her short speccy looks were bound to rub Drax up the wrong way, a plot prerequisite.

Hardyboy

Jaws could have fallen in love with a steam shovel and it wouldn't have made things any worse. . .or better. To my mind, Jaws is the single element that louses up Moonraker. The pre-title sequence is great--until Jaws appears out of nowhere and things literally become a circus. The film proper also works as a solid and intriguing mystery until Drax calls up "Dial-A-Henchman" and in comes Jaws, bringing with him a change of tone to Roadrunner-and-Coyote slapstick comedy and maudlin romance. It's a shame the shark couldn't have done his job in Spy. Bah, humbug!

Dan Same

It's funny you say that HB, as the carnival scene in which Jaws was about to kill the woman was for me, when I was younger, one of the scariest scenes in the history of the Bond films. ;%

Relating to the question, I agree that it wouldn't have made a difference whom Jaws fell in love with, as in my view the space sequence was an absolute joke.

sharpshooter

Jaws falling in love was a farce, but that is the least of Moonraker's worries. The space sequence is very questionable.

stumac7

The Jaws falling in love was/is cringable bad, it made a decent villian in TSWLM into an absolute joke !

JADE66

Never has the Bond film franchise sunk so far into schmaltz than in Moonraker. The film was a series of bad jokes and the whole Jaws falling in love shtick makes me want to wretch. Turning a vicious murderer who uses his steel teeth to rip out the throats of his victims into a moon eyed schoolboy is absolutely unforgivable. Moon raker was a terrific book that need not have been harmed with a little updating but James Bond going Star Wars is like giving Luke
Skywalker a Volkswagen. All it does is make the filmgoer go "Huh?"
Sorry if I sound too preachy on this point but I stand by my earlier statement that if Ian Fleming had lived to see Moonraker it would have killed him.X-(

Mailfist

I'm with you JADE66. There have been a few not so great Bond movies, but none as truly awful as MR.

Dan Same

Reading the last two posts makes me think that my Bond tastes are more unusual than I thought as I quite enjoyed MR. )

I don't consider MR to be a masterpiece, far from it, but I do think that until the film went into space, it was terrific. In fact, if the film had continued on with the quality of the first two thirds, I think it would have been one of the best Bond films of all time.

Regardless, JADE66, to say that if 'Fleming had lived to see Moonraker it would have killed him,' is surely an exaggeration. )

Sir Hillary Bray

Suggesting that Jaws falling in love with an Amazonian type would be more realistic that him falling in love with Dolly is like arguing that Mr. Ed would have been more credible as a talking horse had he been an Appaloosa instead of whatever he was.

The point isn't who Jaws fell in love with (or even how) -- it's that he fell in love at all. Love it or hate it, you have to admit it's in keeping with the tone of the overall film. Personally, as with DAF, I enjoy the total suspension of disbelief that comes with watching MR, and have no problem sitting through the whole film time after time.

bigzilcho

Greetings, everyone.

Now, considering the posts so far, this will come as a shock to the accepted norm.

Not ONLY is Jaws falling in love absolutely essential to the underrated Moonraker but I maintain it provides us with one the greatest moments in the series. I kid you not.

I know what you're thinking:"Has this guy lost his mind? Is Zorin in the house?"

Jaws/Dolly has been regarded as the lowest of low points for Bond-fans since 1979, with no let up in sight. Of course, there are merits in every point. It stops the film cold and changes the menace of Jaws. The music to their meeting is undeniably cringe-worthy. And so on.

Add my voice to all the outrage. Believe me, I was at the front of the complaints line since 1979.

BUT...something happened.

Moonraker has grown in stature in my eyes over the years. Globe-hopping, spectacular Bonds with healthy doses of fantasy are not quite the norm these days. MR is the last truly BIG caper and Drax is the last of the magalomaniacs. I, for one, miss their passing.

His plan to wipe out Planet Earth and replace it with a new race is beyond chilling. In an asylum of Napoleons...Drax is playing God.

In the whole series, there has NEVER been a villian like Drax. Blofeld and Stromberg seem like wannabes compared to ol' Hugo.

Quibble all you want about Bond in space. I've said it before, if you HAD to get 007 in space, MR's plot is as good as any. And then some.

Jaws and Dolly? A henchman falling in love? Ridiculous? Of course. But there is a crazy logic to the whole thing.

Consider this: Bond understands the enormity of Drax's plan and, in a brilliant manuever, makes Jaws realize how totally expendable he and Dolly are in Drax's new world.

The look on Richard Kiel's face when realizes Dolly is doomed is one the GREAT moments in the series, my fellow Bond-fans.I repeat: GREAT!

For, you see, in that one moment of love and despair Jaws is...all of us in the audience. With our flaws and imperfections, we would not qualify in Drax's world.

Bond and Holly Goodhead? Drax would welcome them with open arms. Why? Because they LOOK like movie stars.

Jaws, in a moment of clarity, is the face of humanity and what a crazy, improbable touch in the series: the henchman, the monster represents something that Bond cannot and never will...a comman man.

It is a glorious moment in the series and it could NOT have worked with just JAWS alone. We had to see the big guy be in love. Otherwise, Jaws rebelling against Drax would not have the same resonance.

Could it have been handled better? Of course. (That first meeting is very clumsy)

Is it a betrayal of Jaws and Bond villians in general? NO! In fact, I maintain that it is one the richest moments for Bond bad-guys.

Jaws and Renard in TWINE are two villians motivated by love. Does that make them less menacing?

Three cheers for Richard Kiel!!! In one heart-breaking close-up, the big fella captures the moment when he realizes (as most of us do) that not everyone can be...James Bond.



"Jaws! You obey ME!!!"

Dan Same

bigzilcho wrote:

Greetings, everyone.

Now, considering the posts so far, this will come as a shock to the accepted norm.

Not ONLY is Jaws falling in love absolutely essential to the underrated Moonraker but I maintain it provides us with one the greatest moments in the series. I kid you not.

I know what you're thinking:"Has this guy lost his mind? Is Zorin in the house?"

Jaws/Dolly has been regarded as the lowest of low points for Bond-fans since 1979, with no let up in sight. Of course, there are merits in every point. It stops the film cold and changes the menace of Jaws. The music to their meeting is undeniably cringe-worthy. And so on.

Add my voice to all the outrage. Believe me, I was at the front of the complaints line since 1979.

BUT...something happened.

Moonraker has grown in stature in my eyes over the years. Globe-hopping, spectacular Bonds with healthy doses of fantasy are not quite the norm these days. MR is the last truly BIG caper and Drax is the last of the magalomaniacs. I, for one, miss their passing.

His plan to wipe out Planet Earth and replace it with a new race is beyond chilling. In an asylum of Napoleons...Drax is playing God.

In the whole series, there has NEVER been a villian like Drax. Blofeld and Stromberg seem like wannabes compared to ol' Hugo.

Quibble all you want about Bond in space. I've said it before, if you HAD to get 007 in space, MR's plot is as good as any. And then some.

Jaws and Dolly? A henchman falling in love? Ridiculous? Of course. But there is a crazy logic to the whole thing.

Consider this: Bond understands the enormity of Drax's plan and, in a brilliant manuever, makes Jaws realize how totally expendable he and Dolly are in Drax's new world.

The look on Richard Kiel's face when realizes Dolly is doomed is one the GREAT moments in the series, my fellow Bond-fans.I repeat: GREAT!

For, you see, in that one moment of love and despair Jaws is...all of us in the audience. With our flaws and imperfections, we would not qualify in Drax's world.

Bond and Holly Goodhead? Drax would welcome them with open arms. Why? Because they LOOK like movie stars.

Jaws, in a moment of clarity, is the face of humanity and what a crazy, improbable touch in the series: the henchman, the monster represents something that Bond cannot and never will...a comman man.

It is a glorious moment in the series and it could NOT have worked with just JAWS alone. We had to see the big guy be in love. Otherwise, Jaws rebelling against Drax would not have the same resonance.

Could it have been handled better? Of course. (That first meeting is very clumsy)

Is it a betrayal of Jaws and Bond villians in general? NO! In fact, I maintain that it is one the richest moments for Bond bad-guys.

Jaws and Renard in TWINE are two villians motivated by love. Does that make them less menacing?

Three cheers for Richard Kiel!!! In one heart-breaking close-up, the big fella captures the moment when he realizes (as most of us do) that not everyone can be...James Bond.



"Jaws! You obey ME!!!"

{[] Big, I mentioned in the 'Birthday' thread that you are one of my favourite posters on this site, and this is exactly why. Whether one agrees or disagrees with you, the way you write your posts (and your undeniable love for Bond) is simply extraordinary. Long may you continue to contribute on one of the world's greatest subjects to this site. -{

BTW, I underlined a line that IMO is not only beautiful but is worthy of featuring in the extraordinary meeting between Bond and No in DN. {[]

dougie007

C'mon guys - as long as they're happy we should be happy for them too.

i expect u2 die

I first watched the Bond films when I was very young, and my views were less objective. To me, the films could do no wrong, and Roger was even my favourite Bond for a while.

Since then, I've learnt just how sub-par films such as DAF and AVTAK really are, but I initially loved Moonraker. I thought Jaws was great, a fun character, and I loved the scenes with Dolly and him. I guess, without knowing that the films were actually trying to be funny at this time, I assumed the director was being ironic, and deliberately cheesy, so I found their scenes both cute and hilarious. I still can't shake off my youthful affection for their blossoming romance :x

youknowmyname

Like you I_expect_you_2_die MR was one of my favorites when I was younger and when I first started watching Bond. However, after reading the novel it fell out of my good graces.

With that said, I loved big's post on how Jaws represents us all. If that isn't pure philosophical genius I don't know what is. So, at first I would've posted that the Jaws/Dolly love affair was horrid, now, big has changed my mind and made me appreciate this clumsy love affair in ways I never thought possible. {[]

bigzilcho

Thanks for the kind words, DanSame and youknowmyname.

MR is one of the Rodney Dangerfields of the Bond series. As the years pass, the film seems grander, less silly and yet crazier at the same time.

The Lewis Gilbert Bonds share a similiar tone. All three are fun with a capital F. Some Bond-fans may demand more grit and less humour. Fair enough. But Gilbert promises something else: gee-whiz spectacle. And the kitchen sink.

And that, my friends, has gone the way of the dodo bird.

Lee Tamahori should have had Lewis Gilbert's phone number in his pocket. His attempt at spectacle in DAD was, to put it kindly, a disaster. Whereas YOLT,TSWLM and MR, without breaking a sweat, all hold up like a charm decades later. The word is...showmanship.

Is it a coincidence that all three of Ken Adam's biggest sets were in Gilbert's tenure? The films demanded Adam to create grand, mad visions; production design that made him the most famous person in the world in his field.

MR, over the years, has defied all attempts by critics who have planned for its amusing death.

Its stature will only grow in years.


"As you said. Such good sport."

JADE66

Jaws an everyman? That's a bit of a stretch. Woody Allen is the everyman, the shlub who feels inadequate, ignored, unloved. Jaws is Jack the Ripper/Wiley Coyote. He's not revealing his humanity to us by turning against Drax, he's just displaying survival instinct. Jaws is a stupid, remorseless butcher without conscience or any kind of morality. Try to make Charles Manson or Osama Bin Laden lovable.
All this said, one must realize that these are fictional characters and MR is just a bad movie.
Yet, I maintain that making Jaws lovable is unacceptable. Try making Red Grant or Odd Job cuddly. Take away the menace of Blofeld and make his "love" for Irma Bunt redeeming and you'll see what I mean.
It's bad storytelling.
Ian Fleming was a great storyteller. His novels were engaging, Bond was human and his villains were truly menacing. Moonraker the movie has none of these qualities. It is just bad, bad, oh so bad.

Loeffelholz

Yeah. It's hard to reconcile the Jaws who ripped out Fekkesh's throat with his teeth, in TSWLM, with the lovestruck goofball at the climax of MR. It's either a stunning two-picture character arc...or simple, lazy opportunism on the part of the filmmakers. Sadly, I feel it's the former*

Don't get me wrong. Though I'm not a fan of Moore's Bond generally---and his sillier pictures even less so---there's a fair amount I really enjoy about MR. However, Jaws in Act 3 simply is not one of them..

* EDIT: I meant latter ;% So much for mixing peyote with fan forums... B-)

Napoleon Plural

Er, don't you mean the latter, Loeffs?

7289

Prehaps "Jaws" should have had his own movie series... he seems well appreciated by some.

Sadly for me, "Jaws" named after Spielberg's shark is a charecter that never inspired the degree of dread that Rosa Klebb, Red Grant or Oddjob did.

Kiel is an effecive actor and his size alone would make him impressive in a Bond film. The teeth were "joke shop". Biting throats is for "Dracula", Keil would have been scarier had he merely twisted a few necks.

The whole falling in love deal ... buy that point it makes no difference.

"Moonraker" was one of Fleming's best novels, the stupidity of tossing that story into the trash heap goes beyond anything in the film.

JADE66

7289 wrote:

Prehaps "Jaws" should have had his own movie series... he seems well appreciated by some.

Sadly for me, "Jaws" named after Spielberg's shark is a charecter that never inspired the degree of dread that Rosa Klebb, Red Grant or Oddjob did.

Kiel is an effecive actor and his size alone would make him impressive in a Bond film. The teeth were "joke shop". Biting throats is for "Dracula", Keil would have been scarier had he merely twisted a few necks.

The whole falling in love deal ... buy that point it makes no difference.

"Moonraker" was one of Fleming's best novels, the stupidity of tossing that story into the trash heap goes beyond anything in the film.

Amen to that, 7289. Amen to that.

Loeffelholz

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Er, don't you mean the latter, Loeffs?

[wakes up from his stupor]

nnnuuhhh?? Oh yeah, of course. The latter.. ;%