Most unfairly bashed Bond films?
MrP009
Posts: 4MI6 Agent
What films to folks here think are the most unfairly treated ones by fans and critics?
Many people think Moonraker is bad. And indeed it really is just a series of attempts on 007's life with a story built around it. But I have always appreciated the films special effects, its humor, and its over all concept. It was a film with lots of eye candy, in more ways than one.
Many people think Moonraker is bad. And indeed it really is just a series of attempts on 007's life with a story built around it. But I have always appreciated the films special effects, its humor, and its over all concept. It was a film with lots of eye candy, in more ways than one.
Comments
1)MR
2)AVTAK
3)TWINE
4)DAD
However, I think the movie has several interesting things about it
- Great villain portrayed by the great Christopher Lee
- Exotic locations : Hong Kong is nice, Bangkok even better. The boat chase on the floating market would be perfect if it wasn't for JW Pepper.
The MI6 HQ in the Queen Elizabeth is an interesting idea
- Bond hits Andrea, Moorehas never looked so ruthless after that until FYEO.
- John Barry score
On the negative side, several elements make the overall movie a missed effort :
- JW Pepper
- AMC product placement
- Why does Hip run away with the car after the Karate School ? Makes absolutely no sense.
- Scaramanga's lackluster death
- John Barry score : while some cues are great (Looking for Scaramanga's Island, Hip's Trip), other ones feel dated and don't make the cut for me (Kung Fu fight and other cues that don't appear on the soundtrack CD).
- The flying car
- The "whistle"
Overall, I enjoyed watching TMWTGG very much tonight, while seeing the DAD DVD in my collection makes me turn away (I have never watched it since I saw it at the cinema).
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Casino Royale got a pasting around here before anyone had seen it. That was pretty unfair.
True enough; CR gets my vote.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
You are right, how could I forget about that ?
My mind was still clouded with reminiscenses of MR.
I also have to say that I enjoyed Dalton's two outings as Bond. Certainly, they're not the best in the series . . . but they're not as bad as some people claim them to be. I liked Dalton's more serious approach tot he character.
There are also some wonderfully crafted moments of tension, such as the centrifuge scene which everyone seems to acknowledge as a gold nugget. But what about the scene where Bond and Drax go shooting, Jaws attacking the girl in Rio, or the excellent fight in Venice? Lest we forget Dufour being hunted down by the dogs at Drax's estate, surely one of the darkest moments in the Bond series.
And while some may feel the dual character of the film - humour on the one hand, thrillerish elements on the other - as a downside, I actually view it as a strength. As a piece of entertainment it is ludicrously good fun; even the rampant commercialism - all those 70s billboards in Brazil - gives it a superb vintage atmosphere. Finally there is the finale, with a laser gun battle in space that is very well filmed (the production values in general are very high indeed in Moonraker).
Would I like every film to be like Moonraker? No. In fact, I much prefer the likes of The Living Daylights, Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Nevertheless, for excellent entertainment on a rainy day you cannot get much better than Moonraker, as it *is* possible to like both fun and silly Bonds and fun and serious Bonds, albeit liking one more than the other.
I think the Empire review of Licence To Kill was a little unfair. I got the Ultimate Edition DVD simply for the special features, and the film looks much better on DVD than it ever did on VHS.
Guess I'd nominate AVTAK but I don't mind people bashing it. Again, I feel great watching it, just like the style of it.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
In my opinion - ANY of the Moore films is unfairly bashed.
To recap:
Moonraker - Silliness well-executed.
Die Another Day - Bond well-executed.
Hopefully that doesn't count as bashing.
I don't wish to bash the thing though; as Hardyboy points put there is plenty opportunity for that elsewhere. So I'll big up the positive: Rosamund Pike is great.
Well then, you are more of a Bond fan than I could hope to be! Seriously though, couldn't the same be said for most films? There are many films I have watched and disliked, even detested, and there will usually be *something* in it I can appreciate. Although I do try to point out the positives in films I dislike when reviewing or discussing them (like, for instance, DAD, Diamonds Are Forever or Titanic), I think it is a bit silly to refrain from criticism just because it is a Bond film.
That is true, in my opinion as well as your opinion. However some people feel genuinely that DAD is utter crap. Those people sometimes voice that opinion. If they explain why they hold that opinion I don't see any harm in it - the best thing to do surely is defend the film in response.
L880, my view is NOT that people shouldn't criticize the film (and I'm not a huge fan of DAD myself); I am simply taking the topic at face value and pointing out a movie that I believe is unfairly bashed. There are criticisms leveled against the film that I feel are fair and with which I agree; but DAD seems to generate such hyperbolic overreactions that you'd think the movie was on the level of the killer video from The Ring. Let me draw a comparison between the kind of bashing I think is legitimate and that I find over the top:
"DAD has a good first half that's negated by a terrible second half." FAIR.
"DAD is just so bad from the second it begins until the second it ends that it has to rank as the worst thing put on film since the Lumiere brothers introduced narrative film, ca. 1900." UNFAIR.
"DAD is ruined by OTT gimmicks like a laser satellite, a face-changing machine, and an invisible car." FAIR.
"DAD has a cameo by Madonna, so Mickey and Babs should be brought to The Hague on charges of committing crimes against humanity." UNFAIR.
It's the exaggerations, the melodrama, the vitriol, and the just plain silliness in some of the criticisms that I object to. If some people don't like DAD, fine; if they have legitimate gripes, air 'em; I just wish they'd stop acting like DAD is an abomination against man, God, and nature.
Even though I disagree with the criticisms, leading to bashing, of Moonraker, Casino Royale and Licence to Kill, I employ Evelyn Beatrice Hall's maxim: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". For instance, I have read many opinions basically alleging that Timothy Dalton is little more than a slightly warmed corpse in LTK. Now I disagree with those opinions, and will happily debate them, but if it is a legitimately held opinion then that is fair enough. And on issues like opinions on films or actors, who is to say what is legitimate criticism?†
† Unless, of course, those criticisms are very personal in nature, such as those directed towards DC after his casting.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
christopher lee was an excellent bad guy. roger moore looked good. the sherrif was funny. the chase scenes were exciting. the bond girls were got. the midget was a butler and an assassin. bond has a third nipple. what more do you people want?
I'm pretty much with you, dom. TMWTGG isn't in the top half of my favourites list, but it's not at the bottom, either. I've always liked it...but then I afford films like DAF a lot more forgiveness than most people here, as well.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Peter Sellers - who is very briefly on display, was at his peak. Always one of my favorite Brit comedians.
Ursula Andress - Wow. Her second foray into Bond territory, she was way hotter than in Dr. No.
Burt Bacharach/Hal David score - even if you hated the film, you couldn't hate the music - The Look of Love(Dusty Springfield), Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. Possibly some of the best sounds in any Bond film.
The imagery - Pure 60s psychedelia. You can't mistake this film for any other era. And a veritable army of beautiful women - more than 1 Bond could even handle, which explains why everyone was Bond.
The cameos - everyone from Peter O'Toole, George Raft, Deborah Kerr, Jean Paul Belmondo, Charles Boyer etc. The list is too long to mention - a veritable who's who of film.
Of the big spy satire send-ups, I'd rate it higher than the Flint and (embarassingly bad) Matt Helm series, and any of the one-shot attempts of that era.
Someone else must have really liked it too, because they based the whole Austin Powers series on it.
To add on,
The Spy Who Loved Me - Stromberg Well Excuted
Even though GoldenEye gets praised to the stars I think it is similarily diffuse as well (but was better than DAD by being more gritty and having richer characters).