The Oliver Peoples Airman - The Facts

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  • JB1962JB1962 USAPosts: 194MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    cat@adamsimmonds.co.uk
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    I have now received confirmed information from another optician, that the sunglasses, that we see in QoS ARE Tom Ford!

    I have contacted Tom Ford directly and am waiting for a reply.

    Fact is, that Tom Ford is now officially offering the glasses to shops, so the sunglasses can be ordered.

    Keep you guys updated.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    I find it rather odd that we have multiple reports that the QoS OP's are Tom Ford but Adam Simmonds state that it is not so. I hope that soon we could finally get a definative answer from with Tom Ford or Oliver Peoples directly.
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    I have now received confirmed information from another optician, that the sunglasses, that we see in QoS ARE Tom Ford!

    I have contacted Tom Ford directly and am waiting for a reply.

    Fact is, that Tom Ford is now officially offering the glasses to shops, so the sunglasses can be ordered.

    Keep you guys updated.

    I find this fascinating from a couple of points:

    1) No one other than Bondtoys opticians seem to have seen the Ford-branded glassess; Ford's themselves do not seem to be advertising them...

    And most importantly:

    2) Has it occured to no one on these threads that Ford's can't simply COPY OP's and call them their own: there is a matter of COPYRIGHT!!! Nor can I see OP's giving up their ownership of this style at this time, and nor can EON simply seed the OP style to Ford just because Ford are making other items for the film...

    I wouldn't, therefore, like to be in Ford corner, legally, if they have simply RIPPED the OP style...

    ... and, of course, we do await the first photo of the Ford shades...

    :o
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008


    1) No one other than Bondtoys opticians seem to have seen the Ford-branded glassess; Ford's themselves do not seem to be advertising them...

    Well, that's not correct at all:

    read this: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=31149 and find out, that Selfridges in London has similar informations.

    And why don't you try yourself and contact your local TF dealer. You may end up with similar informations though.

    Additionally, both opticians, that I have contacted here in Hamburg, reassured themselfs with Tom Ford Eyewear Germany before replying to my questions.

    And the question, why TF is not advertising these sunglasses presently:
    Well, we have not seen much of TF QoS advertising for suits and ties as well, so, that says not too much.
    2) Has it occured to no one on these threads that Ford's can't simply COPY OP's and call them their own: there is a matter of COPYRIGHT!!! Nor can I see OP's giving up their ownership of this style at this time, and nor can EON simply seed the OP style to Ford just because Ford are making other items for the film...

    I wouldn't, therefore, like to be in Ford corner, legally, if they have simply RIPPED the OP style...

    ... and, of course, we do await the first photo of the Ford shades...

    :o

    As said previously, I agree that we have 2 controversal informations here.

    Only speculating here in the blue:
    What if: OP lost the copyright for the Airman after they have decided not to continue with the Airman more than a year ago.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    Bondtoys wrote:
    Bondtoys wrote:


    1) No one other than Bondtoys opticians seem to have seen the Ford-branded glassess; Ford's themselves do not seem to be advertising them...

    Well, that's not correct at all:

    read this: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=31149 and find out, that Selfridges in London has similar informations.

    Additionally, both opticians, that I have contacted here in Hamburg, reassured themselfs with Tom Ford Eyewear Germany befor replying to my questions.

    And, why don't you go to your local TF dealer and ask yourself? You may receive similar informations.
    2) Has it occured to no one on these threads that Ford's can't simply COPY OP's and call them their own: there is a matter of COPYRIGHT!!! Nor can I see OP's giving up their ownership of this style at this time, and nor can EON simply seed the OP style to Ford just because Ford are making other items for the film...

    I wouldn't, therefore, like to be in Ford corner, legally, if they have simply RIPPED the OP style...

    ... and, of course, we do await the first photo of the Ford shades...

    :o

    As said previously, I agree that we have 2 controversal informations here.

    Only speculating here in the blue:
    What if: OP lost the copyright for the Airman after they have decided not to continue with the Airman more than a year ago.

    And the question, why TF is not advertising these sunglasses presently:
    Well, we have not seen much of TF QoS advertising for suits and ties as well, so, that says not too much.

    I appreciate your reference to Arlington Beach's orginal post, but as I advised in that thread, information from opticians to posters here is Third Party info, and not backed up by photos...

    On the copyright issue, I doubt OP's would give up a copyright on their OWN design... particularly to then re-issue these shades with the QOS connection via their New York store and Simmonds...

    That first photo of the Ford's will be priceless - though I do think, Bondtoys, you yourself speculated they - Ford - may be producing other shades from the film, possibly even those worn privately by Craig..?

    Again, i await the first photo/Ford ad...

    But maintain this could be a legal bloodbath!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    I think, that there is a reason, why there is no pic of the sunglasses. I am also smelling legal issues, that may be it.

    Yes, I myself have been speculating in order get an explanation for these 2 stories being fixed. But when I am speculating, I am not drawing this out as facts.

    And fact is, that there will be an official TF eyeshade in QoS, which looks spot on to the OP Airman. You may call this third party information, but A.S. information is also not officially backed up by EON.

    Additionally, the Airman is available not only thru OP NYC and A.S., you can get these everywhere but NONE of them is a Limited Edition in any way.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    Is it possible that because OP has stopped production of these sunglasses, TF may have gotten permission to re-introduce them on behalf of OP? Also I believe that Adam Simmonds did state that they had to call OP and prood them just to make the "limited edition" version. I also believe that it was stated that OP was not thinking about producing any until October or so. In that light it appears that OP may not of had the foresight as TF had when it came to these sunglasses and asked for rights to produce them as OP had discontinued that model? Again, just my speculations, no details or any information to back them up.
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    I think, that there is a reason, why there is no pic of the sunglasses. I am also smelling legal issues, that may be it.

    Yes, I myself have been speculating in order get an explanation for these 2 stories being fixed. But when I am speculating, I am not drawing this out as facts.

    And fact is, that there will be an official TF eyeshade in QoS, which looks spot on to the OP Airman. You may call this third party information, but A.S. information is also not officially backed up by EON.

    Additionally, the Airman is available not only thru OP NYC and A.S., you can get these everywhere but NONE of them is a Limited Edition in any way.

    But, Bondtoys, by accepting that these Ford's are "spot on" with the OPs, both you and your opticians are failing to understand the concept of copyright!

    Further, OP's do not need EON's endorsement IF they made the original shades worn by Craig - IF Craig wore OP's, that is a fact regardless of whatever EON might say.

    On the Limited Edition issue, I have no problem now many are produced, but bear in mind OPs - not AS - are aserting they made the QOS shades.

    Cpoulos, as pointed out, I can't seen OP letting a copyright FOR THEIR OWN DESIGN drop and then promote these shades as those worn by Craig!

    The best I can suggest - to avoid a legal mindfield - is that IF Ford's produce shades identical to the OPs, Fords add that their shades are BASED ON a design by OPs SUPPLIED to QOS.

    And Ford's can have that legal advise free of charge.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    DS,

    I am sure, that TF appreciates your advise for copyright as I am sure, that they know pretty much in this field.

    But I think, that I don't need lessons in regards of copyright. Let me recall my very unpopular position regarding fakes of any kind, especially in terms of watches.

    I am not scratching my head on, how this TF/OP case can be compatible with copyright laws, that's the business of the departments and companies in charge.

    What you have said about EONs confirmation: I just want to recall the story with the shoes, which have been spontanuously purchased in Bregenz as DCs shoes have been too slippery. A lot can happen during the shooting of a movie and the fact, that OP Airmen have been purchased previously for DC does not say, that these have been really used during shooting. And as Oliver Peoples are confirming, that DC is wearing their suglasses in the movie, I am sure, that they have had at least 2 people on the set for the entire time to make sure, that there will be no mistake with this :v


    We have the facts on the table, let's see, what the future brings.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    DS,

    I am sure, that TF appreciates your advise for copyright as I am sure, that they know pretty much in this field.

    But I think, that I don't need lessons in regards of copyright. Let me recall my very unpopular position regarding fakes of any kind, especially of watches.

    I am not scratching my head on, how this TF/OP case can be compatible with copyright laws, that's the business of the departments and companies in charge.

    We have the facts on the table, let's see, what the future brings.

    Indeed.

    As I've said, the first picture of the Fords will be priceless.

    The first of their shades that hit the market even more so.

    ;)
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    Other then the limited edition version sold by Adam Simmonds, these are not on the market yet/anymore? Isn't that correct?

    But as Bondtoys stated, we may just have to wait and see. Anything and everything is possible!
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    The Sunglasses, that AS sold and is still selling today is NOT a limited edition.

    You can get the silver Airman at your local OP retailer without problems.

    I can order them right away from my local optician and the optician of my confidence in HK.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    The Sunglasses, that AS sold and is still selling today is NOT a limited edition.

    You can get the silver Airman at your local OP retailer without problems.

    I can order them right away from my local optician and the optician of my confidence in HK.

    I am so confused why AS stated that it was a limited edition.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008

    ...they eventually decided to order an initial 300 pairs, of which 150 had polarised lenses, the other 150 photochromic...

    ....It would appear that around June-time, Oliver Peoples realised that they were seriously underestimating the potential demand and decided to have more produced which, as they take four months to make, will not be available until October...

    After A.S. realized, that the Airman will be available normally from October, they changed this entire "limited edition" wording to "initially"
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    DS,

    I am sure, that TF appreciates your advise for copyright as I am sure, that they know pretty much in this field.

    But I think, that I don't need lessons in regards of copyright. Let me recall my very unpopular position regarding fakes of any kind, especially in terms of watches.

    I am not scratching my head on, how this TF/OP case can be compatible with copyright laws, that's the business of the departments and companies in charge.

    What you have said about EONs confirmation: I just want to recall the story with the shoes, which have been spontanuously purchased in Bregenz as DCs shoes have been too slippery. A lot can happen during the shooting of a movie and the fact, that OP Airmen have been purchased previously for DC does not say, that these have been really used during shooting. And as Oliver Peoples are confirming, that DC is wearing their suglasses in the movie, I am sure, that they have had at least 2 people on the set for the entire time to make sure, that there will be no mistake with this :v


    We have the facts on the table, let's see, what the future brings.

    You've recently added the fourth paragraph so I think it should be addressed..

    It doesn't matter really if OPs had people on site watching filming does it IF, as you allege, the supposed Fords' are "spot on" - your words - for the OPs.

    Either the shades on screen are OPs or Ford has simply copied them.

    I cannot see a third way.
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    Bondtoys wrote:
    DS,

    I am sure, that TF appreciates your advise for copyright as I am sure, that they know pretty much in this field.

    But I think, that I don't need lessons in regards of copyright. Let me recall my very unpopular position regarding fakes of any kind, especially in terms of watches.

    I am not scratching my head on, how this TF/OP case can be compatible with copyright laws, that's the business of the departments and companies in charge.

    What you have said about EONs confirmation: I just want to recall the story with the shoes, which have been spontanuously purchased in Bregenz as DCs shoes have been too slippery. A lot can happen during the shooting of a movie and the fact, that OP Airmen have been purchased previously for DC does not say, that these have been really used during shooting. And as Oliver Peoples are confirming, that DC is wearing their suglasses in the movie, I am sure, that they have had at least 2 people on the set for the entire time to make sure, that there will be no mistake with this :v


    We have the facts on the table, let's see, what the future brings.

    You've recently added the fourth paragraph so I think it should be addressed..

    It doesn't matter really if OPs had people on site watching filming does it IF, as you allege, the supposed Fords' are "spot on" - your words - for the OPs.

    Either the shades on screen are OPs or Ford has simply copied them.

    I cannot see a third way.

    Or TF producing it on behalf of OP??
  • SWAT238SWAT238 USAPosts: 34MI6 Agent
    It is possible that when Oliver Peoples canned the Airman design years back that Tom Ford picked up the design and produced them for QOS...which would mean that IF Oliver Peoples did re-issue the Airman it would technically then be a "limited edition" because they were not the actual ones used in the film.

    just throwing that possibility out there. whatever the answer may be, I just really cant wait anymore for QOS to debut and these questions get answered.
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
    To save confusion, Tom Ford actually designed the Aviators for OP. Remember he was a hired designer for big companies like Gucci before he struck out on his own.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • cpoulos62cpoulos62 Station UPosts: 451MI6 Agent
    Asp9mm wrote:
    To save confusion, Tom Ford actually designed the Aviators for OP. Remember he was a hired designer for big companies like Gucci before he struck out on his own.

    That is definately the tie-in. It is starting to come together. Thanks Asp9mm
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    cpoulos62 wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    To save confusion, Tom Ford actually designed the Aviators for OP. Remember he was a hired designer for big companies like Gucci before he struck out on his own.

    That is definately the tie-in. It is starting to come together. Thanks Asp9mm

    But if I were - say - hired by Aston Martin and designed their new model and then left the firm, I wouldn't have any rights to make a copy of that car and give it another name.

    So I'm not sure it's quite as simple as that - not with OPs re-releasing THEIR Airmans...

    Unless ASP9mm knows more (which wouldn't surprise me);)
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    ... but you are not Tom Ford!
    And there may be a chapter in his contracts, that his intellectual property stays with him and OP has only the right for a limited time/quantity to use his design etc.

    Just a speculation....
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    Bondtoys wrote:
    ... but you are not Tom Ford. And there may be a chapter in his contracts, that his intellectual property stays with him.

    Just a speculation....

    Possibly (though I guess he'd have to have some weight to retain such ownership when he was HIRED by OP).

    And so I suspect HE - Ford - will be suing OP for reproducing THEIR shades in which he had intellectual ownership?

    Because, essentially, OP have pre-empted Ford by flooding the international market with Ford-designed shades just TWO months before Ford himself intends to release HIS version!

    :s
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    even at his Gucci times, TF has been a heavyweight in the design business and could dictate any contract that he has been offered.
    Either the shades on screen are OPs or Ford has simply copied them.

    I cannot see a third way.

    Now you can!
    And I can see very variable opinions with you now:

    After accusing TF having copied OP, you are now mentioning OP copying TF.
    I'd be careful with all this before we are having a final reply on all this.

    We have no clear evidence, that TF was infact doing the Airman, Asp9mm has been talking about the Aviator.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • shilton125shilton125 SCOTLANDPosts: 355MI6 Agent
    Having read all these threads, if Tom Ford is making the sunglasses featured in QOS then how can OP legally show Daniel Craig on there website wearing the OP Airman. They would be sued surely.
  • David SchofieldDavid Schofield EnglandPosts: 1,528MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    Bondtoys wrote:
    even at his Gucci times, TF has been a heavyweight in the design business and could dictate any contract that he has been offered.
    Either the shades on screen are OPs or Ford has simply copied them.

    I cannot see a third way.

    Now you can!
    And I can see very variable opinions with you now:

    After accusing TF having copied OP, you are now mentioning OP copying TF.
    I'd be careful with all this before we are having a final reply on all this.

    We have no clear evidence, that TF was infact doing the Airman, Asp9mm has been talking about the Aviator.

    Bondtoys, my opinions are not variable - merely speculations on how Ford can simply reproduce an OP design, or - if he has intellectual rights, as YOU speculate - OP can now re-release THEIR version.

    There doesn't seem to be any inconsistency in having two theories. My suggestion of yesterday evening - that Ford must be copying OP - was before ASP9mm suggested Ford was involved in original OP design. However, as I have suggested, I still do not 100% accept that his intellectual rights exist in view of OPs re-release! I do not see how this has been inconsistent, based on new info?!

    However, legalities apart, my own view, for what it is worth, is the shades Craig wore during filming (and identified as such by OP and AS)bore OP markings. Whether or not Ford is able produce a copy or not.

    Therefore, I am happy with the info from OP and, particularly, AS. I susupect, Bondtoys, you, however, are not "happy" with AS.
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent

    Therefore, I am happy with the info from OP and, particularly, AS. I susupect, Bondtoys, you, however, are not "happy" with AS.

    8-) Please don't speculate about my feelings.

    I am only trying to bring some informations into all this and to balance opinions, that's all.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • shilton125shilton125 SCOTLANDPosts: 355MI6 Agent
    I have recently purchased a pair of the OP AIRMAN which in my opinion are the glasses in the film. They are fantastic glasses and come with black and grey eay pieces
  • Asp9mmAsp9mm Over the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
    cpoulos62 wrote:
    Asp9mm wrote:
    To save confusion, Tom Ford actually designed the Aviators for OP. Remember he was a hired designer for big companies like Gucci before he struck out on his own.

    That is definately the tie-in. It is starting to come together. Thanks Asp9mm

    But if I were - say - hired by Aston Martin and designed their new model and then left the firm, I wouldn't have any rights to make a copy of that car and give it another name.

    So I'm not sure it's quite as simple as that - not with OPs re-releasing THEIR Airmans...

    Unless ASP9mm knows more (which wouldn't surprise me);)

    I actually have no idea, but there is definately something going on at Tom Ford regarding the Airman design too, as I have had reports from other parties that they provided the glasses seen in the trailers.

    The whole thing is so confusing and speculative that no-one knows what the Hell is going on with the two companies involved. Time will tell, and we'll all get ****ed off in the process until we find out. There is too much dis-information floated by both Adam Simmonds and Tom Ford agents at the moment, it's impossible to see through the smoke. Only Oliver Peoples have yet to make a direct claim.
    ..................Asp9mmSIG-1-2.jpg...............
  • JB1962JB1962 USAPosts: 194MI6 Agent
    I found this link on the Oliver Peoples website:

    http://www.oliverpeoples.com/op_framed_faces/index.html

    Take a look at the second picture from the left. While not an official press release, it certainly looks like OP is saying it's the Airmans.
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