Are the Movies Racist?

Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
While it is certain that Ian Fleming was a snobbish racist and it seems to be reflected in his books (which were much more garish and morbid than the campy movies).

Yet I personally do not think the movies are particularily racist, but they are deservedly reknowned for cultural and national stereotyping (but it is more in the vein of Disney Land's "It's a Small World Afterall"). Live and Let Die could be seen as being a little close to the knuckle, but the white hick cops were given a more unendearing depiction.

In You Only Live Twice, Connery being made to look more Asian came across as silly and unconvincing, rather than obnoxious and very mocking like Mickey Rooney's depiction of a Japanese man in Breakfast at Tiffany's.
And most of the villains and henchmen are predominantly white Europeans or North Americans, with some essentially being British (like Elliot Carver or, at a stretch, most incarnations of Ernst Stavro Blofeld).

James Bond movies being sexist on the other hand... :v
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
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Comments

  • Tilly Masterson 007Tilly Masterson 007 UKPosts: 1,472MI6 Agent
    One scene that had me wondering just whether it was a racist remark or just Roger's humour was the scene in Octopussy where he hands Sadruddin some of the money he got and says "this should get you a few currys!"
  • DrMaybeDrMaybe Posts: 204MI6 Agent
    Parts of Live and Let Die were shot in my hometown of New Orleans. And, from all outward appearances, could be viewed as racist scenes(the "dancing" funeral procession, voudou etc.) but is actually a fairly accurate representation of the "touristy" nature of the city. Those "second line" funeral parades are usually reserved for a jazz musician, or somebody of great note in the community, and they do make it into quite a party.

    I think the rest of the remarks made by Bond in his films, were just an elaboration of the sarcastic nature of the character. And probably an easy way for the scriptwriter to fill the voids in between chases and bedhopping.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    I could have done without some of the remarks about pointy-heads in TMWTGG made by the redneck sheriff from LALD. I would have been quite happy for that elephant to trample on his head rather than just push him into the water.
  • Herr MichaelHerr Michael Posts: 360MI6 Agent
    There really are people that act and talk like that in the southern parts of the US. Even today.

    It's not just confined to the southern US. Attitudes and mannerisms such as those can be found throughout the United States.

    There really are 'Hillbilly Rednecks' here.
  • DrMaybeDrMaybe Posts: 204MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    I could have done without some of the remarks about pointy-heads in TMWTGG made by the redneck sheriff from LALD. I would have been quite happy for that elephant to trample on his head rather than just push him into the water.

    I could have done without the whole character, myself. A cliche better left in Smokey and the Bandit movies.
  • zaphodzaphod Posts: 1,183MI6 Agent
    I think it's fair to claim that Fleming was possibly a racist, although what is racist now probably was not considered such in the early 50's. But whatever the outcome of that debate I think it's justifiable to claim that Bond as written by Fleming was not. Just think about some of his key realtionships, Kerim Bay and Quarel for example, or Tiger Tanaka. Some of the sloppier 70's movies however really did get it wrong on a number of fronts, with racism being one of them.
  • DrMaybeDrMaybe Posts: 204MI6 Agent
    I always found Sammy Davis Jr.'s inclusion in the Rat Pack to be the penultimate of racism. Especially when he started tap-dancing around them. He's considered a great entertainer, now(posthumously), but IMO, had some serious Uncle Tom issues. I find it racist, whenever I see a black character included in a predominently white movie. Especially in the role of the close friend. A good percent of the time, this is not the case in real life(at least not in America).
  • Sweepy the CatSweepy the Cat Halifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
    LALD is just a Bond movie with lots of black guy in it. What's racist about it?
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  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    I suppose whenever Gregory Hines started tapping around Jewish Billy Chrystal, he too was in league with "the man". 8-)

    White people can't have close friends who are black? What poppycock.
  • Sir_Miles_MesservySir_Miles_Messervy MI6 CLASSIFIEDPosts: 113MI6 Agent
    LALD is just a Bond movie with lots of black guy in it. What's racist about it?

    I think it's the idea that nearly every black person in the movie, with the exception of Strutter and Quarrel Jr., was a villain. The entire community seems to conspire against Bond...with even his waiters aiding in his capture. It might be perceived to suggest a villainy in even ordinary citizens of cities like New Orleans and Harlem.

    At least Bond doesn't tell anyone to fetch his shoes in LALD.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,486MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    I suppose whenever Gregory Hines started tapping around Jewish Billy Chrystal, he too was in league with "the man". 8-)

    White people can't have close friends who are black? What poppycock.

    I don't know if the tapdancing example was the best one, but Rat Pack Confidential the book explains how there was a certain give with one hand, take with the other approach to the Rat Pack. Yes they included Sammy, who did have to put up with some dodgy jokes, though Frank was also prepared to give him the break others wouldn't. Racism was rife then of course, a black man wouldn't even be allowed in the Vegas casinos, hence poor Sammy played a garbage man in Ocean's 11.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    edited September 2008
    Sammy Davis Jr's inclusion in the Rat Pack during those times was a giant step foward, akin to Jackie Robinson and other black entertainer's contributions.

    To claim he was an "Uncle Tom" is beyond absurd and reaches a level of unfounded nastiness that hits the outer stratosphere.
  • Dan SameDan Same Victoria, AustraliaPosts: 6,054MI6 Agent
    I think it's the idea that nearly every black person in the movie, with the exception of Strutter and Quarrel Jr., was a villain. The entire community seems to conspire against Bond...with even his waiters aiding in his capture. It might be perceived to suggest a villainy in even ordinary citizens of cities like New Orleans and Harlem.
    LALD is problematic for me. I really love the film, and while I don't consider it (or any other Bond film) to be racist, I can certainly see how it could be read that way. I would prefer, however, to believe that should the film be viewed as racist, that it not be deliberate. Partly because I honestly don't believe that the film was deliberately racist, but also because several of the black characters (such as Kananga and Tee Hee) were IMO among the greatest characters in the history of the Bond films. :D
    At least Bond doesn't tell anyone to fetch his shoes in LALD.
    People always single out DN, but the way I see it, Quarrel was in a subordinate position to Bond. Not because he was black, but because Bond was an M16 agent and so had more authority than Quarrel. Yes, it could be perceived as a white man telling a black man what to do, but the film was set in Jamaica, so it was realistic that a boatman (is that a word?) Bond would enlist would be black. Additionally, I think that it was clear that they liked each other. ;)

    I don't think that DN was racist, or at least any more so considering the time in which it was made, and as for other Bond films, well, if I thought that the Bond films were racist, I probably wouldn't watch them. ;)
    "He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
  • Colonel ShatnerColonel Shatner Chavtastic Bristol, BritainPosts: 574MI6 Agent
    Quantum seems to be a mainly European dominated organization.
    'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
  • GoldenbuttGoldenbutt Posts: 5MI6 Agent
    There is no way this movie is racist. It is silly as **** though.
  • Mister WhiteMister White The NetherlandsPosts: 814MI6 Agent
    Quantum seems to be a mainly European dominated organization.

    However they are not racist in choosing their clients, as they were happy to help out a black African dictator. {:)
    "Christ, I miss the Cold War."
  • GoldenbuttGoldenbutt Posts: 5MI6 Agent
    However, did anyone notice that Dr. Kanaga seems a little light in the loafers...y'know, gay? The Bond franchise's only, lonely, heroin smuggling, tarot card crazed, gay super villain?? wow...

    That part where Bond blows him up with the air pellet is perhaps the most ridiculous scene in the history of Bond.

    then the quip–"He always did have an inflated opinion of himself."
    So bad yet so good.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,912Chief of Staff
    What strikes you as "gay" about Kananga? His pimp outfit when he plays Mr. Big? One of the knocks against the film has been that it reproduces the old stereotype of a black man menacing a white woman--witness Kananga's thwarted desire to take Solitaire's virginity when he felt it would be time--so I'm not sure where you're coming from here.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Barry NelsonBarry Nelson ChicagoPosts: 1,508MI6 Agent
    Wow, a lot of strange comments on this thread, we seem to be on a slippery slope, so I will just say I agree with Alex's comments, and I never for one second considered Kananga gay.
  • GoldenbuttGoldenbutt Posts: 5MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    What strikes you as "gay" about Kananga? His pimp outfit when he plays Mr. Big? One of the knocks against the film has been that it reproduces the old stereotype of a black man menacing a white woman--witness Kananga's thwarted desire to take Solitaire's virginity when he felt it would be time--so I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

    At the end, when he reveals his plans, there's a lisp or two if you listen close. He was kind of sassy though,no??hehe
    I am mostly joking
    I am not joking when I say that was a bad movie. egads!
    Then again, I'm of the opinion that about over half the Bond flicks are mediocre to awful. But maybe that's part of their charm, y'know, sucking.
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    I find Bond's "Fetch my shoes" to Quarrel on Crab Key in Dr. No a bit cringible. Quarrel plays it a bit "me sir/yes sir" for me too.
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  • Sweepy the CatSweepy the Cat Halifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
    edited April 2009
    I find Bond's "Fetch my shoes" to Quarrel on Crab Key in Dr. No a bit cringible.

    All he asked for him to do was to fetch him his shoes 8-)
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  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    I find Bond's "Fetch my shoes" to Quarrel on Crab Key in Dr. No a bit cringible.

    All he asked for him to do was to fetch him his shoes 8-)

    It's the servant style conotations that sit awkward with me. Paired with Quarrel's servitude demeanour throughout the film. This was the very beggining of the 60's, a time when whites and blacks still had a very clear lines of segregation in place. The Carribean and in particular southern states remained like this for almost another decade. You can bet "Fetch my shoes" without a please or thankyou asserted Bond's dominance by the fact that he was not only in charge, but from another social standing altogether.
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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I never thought the movies racist,and Bond telling Quarrel to fetch his shoes is snaped in the way an officer would to any man under his comand.After all Bond also orders one of Dr No's guards to remove his handcuffs.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • 84208420 Posts: 721MI6 Agent
    LALD is IMO like when they are dancing after they kill that guy at the funeral
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    I never thought the movies racist,and Bond telling Quarrel to fetch his shoes is snaped in the way an officer would to any man under his comand.After all Bond also orders one of Dr No's guards to remove his handcuffs.

    It isn't overtly racist, but remember this is a blak man in the early sixties. It's the conotations. Bond isn't ordering the man to check chamber or kit as any good officer does in laying up periods. He isn't ordering him to do anything crucial towards the operation - he snaps for him to fetch his shoes as a master would a valet. It is a master and servant moment.
    Snapping at one of Dr. No's men to remove his handcuffs is merely asserting dominance in a resentful way, albeit to speed up his own decontamination.
    Racism is merely sensitivity and understanding. The less sensitive you are to it, or at least try to understand, the more you lean towards it. We all set our own standards. I see the comment as cringible. You may not.
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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    All i can add is Dr No was made a long time ago with diffrent standards from today and the line about fetching shoes would be written and delivered in a very diffrent way.and I also never got the impression that Kananga was gay.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,486MI6 Agent
    Hmm, watching GE the other day, I recalled the odd scene about Janus's background, with his Cosack parents handed back to the Russians by the British and shot.

    Valentin says, "You can't trust him, he's a Cossack..." then after the tragic WW2 tale (of course, how come Janus isn't a lot older if he was a kid in the war?) says, "Still, they deserved it. A cruel people." Like, oh, that's okay then. What if he said, "Jews, they can't be trusted"? And no demurral from Bond either.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • Conduit cutConduit cut CaliforniaPosts: 3MI6 Agent
    I'm watching Dr. No again and I remember the controversy about Bond telling Quarel to "fetch my shoes". The concern is whether Bond is racist. I think it's closer to say Bond is not a nice guy and an equal opportunity abuser. He offends almost everyone he comes in contact with. If those flight attendants want that cab so bad, fine, take it. Enjoy yourselves. He tells the home secretary he feels He's (someone's been selling tickets) blabbed about his assignment. The police chief takes offence replying to Bond in a cold tone. They go to Strangways home and Bond has the most abrasive manner ending with telling them he's going to bathe, OK? The movie is rife with examples of Bond sounding like he wants to make people angry. At this time with this movie, this was Bond. And for some reason viewers liked him. He had the contrasts of being a gentleman and an ***hole. It made him interesting. Did his character have racist traits? Possible. He did care for Quarel, as a man and as a colleague. I think when we identify with a character too closely we want that character to have all the best traits, just like us. (or like we'd wish to believe). I liked this Bond, warts and all.
  • little nellylittle nelly London, EnglandPosts: 152MI6 Agent
    edited June 2009
    Who cares? I'm sick of idiots pulling things apart trying to find a hint of any political incorrectness. Get a life.
    N O I N F O R M A T I O N I S U S E L E S S
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