Seperating Bond and Bourne

Apologies if this thread is to similar to other threads but i felt i wanted to address this issue alone. It also might contain spoilers so please don't read if thats something you want to avoid.
Most, if not all the reviews i've read of QOS so far have stated that the film at some points really feels more like Bourne than bond. But this is nothing new, it was said about CR too. So im at a loss to why the director/producers choose not keep to some traditional bond elements to seperate the two. I'm all for the darker bond, and do not care much about the loss of Q, Moneypenny and the god awful one liners, but when i walk out the cinema i want to know i've just watched a BOND film. I think the new direction can still be achieved by keeping such things as the gunbarrel at the start of the film, rather than the end. Same goes for the James Bond Theme. If these action scenes are very Bourne like (like the critics say) add a fanfare of bond theme to let the audience know THIS IS BOND! Like i said im all for the new style bond but these unesscesary decisions are costing 007 his identity.

Comments

  • RavenstoneRavenstone EnglandPosts: 152MI6 Agent
    I don't care about it, because I see it as lazy journalism. It's an action movie with a male secret service agent, so obviously it's like Bourne. Even though Bond came first.

    Still, as long as Bond doesn't end up a Manchurian Candidate, with no control over his own destiny, a puppet, an amnesiac, an unwilling pawn in someone else's game - then he's not Bourne.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    Here's what Marc Forster has to say about it (source: ContactMusic), and I think he's dead right:

    "I feel there's a huge difference - it's like apples and oranges. Stylistically alone, Bond should never be in the Bourne vein. Bond has a different kind of quality. He can still transport you."

    I remember when they were working on the CR script, Purvis and Wade made a comment on the lines of "Bourne is in hell," and who wants to be there? No matter how self-reflecting the Bond character may be, he will never be an angry outsider trying to figure out who and what he is (so people will leave him the heck alone); he will always be fighting for the right side and travelling all over the world in a fun and exotic way so we can all share in the adventure. No Bourne movie can do that.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Pud2002Pud2002 Posts: 65MI6 Agent
    A valid point, but is it so difficult to add the gunbarrel at the start for the fans? I can understand it in CR because of he was earning his 00 status first, but now it should be back where it belongs. Same goes for the JB theme, when watching the film i wanna hear the iconic theme. Think David Arnold said himself once "without that theme it could feel like you're watching any other action hero."
    It might appear like im being really picky, i'm sure i'll love QOS anyway like i did CR, i just miss certain things. :)
  • RavenstoneRavenstone EnglandPosts: 152MI6 Agent
    I agree with that, which is a relief, because it obviously means I'm paying attention! ;)

    They are different. I can't see similarities to be honest, other than the spy thing. Bond is in control; Bourne isn't. Bond is a willing participant (inasmuch as he's volunteered); Bourne not so willing, at least not now. Bourne doesn't know what's going on; Bond does.
  • Sweepy the CatSweepy the Cat Halifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
    Well in a few years time it'll go back to normal, it's just a phase the series is getting into.
    One day we'll look back and laugh
    207qoznfl4.gif
  • Pud2002Pud2002 Posts: 65MI6 Agent
    I'm liking this phase it's going though, i just want my beloved theme and gunbarrel back in the movie! {:)
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,948MI6 Agent
    I don't doubt that the action does feel like Bourne- I hope so too as Bourne came up with some of the best and most exciting sequences of all time in their three movies; especially the last two. Bond should be taking a leaf out of their book.
  • PaperbillPaperbill FloridaPosts: 812MI6 Agent
    When Bourne drives an Aston Martin I will worry.
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 1,061MI6 Agent
    Ravenstone wrote:
    Still, as long as Bond doesn't end up a Manchurian Candidate, with no control over his own destiny, a puppet, an amnesiac, an unwilling pawn in someone else's game - then he's not Bourne.

    Flemings Golden Gun? remember, starts with Bond as a Manchurian Candidate, with no control over his own destiny, a puppet, an amnesiac, an unwilling pawn in someone else's game, trying to murder M. :v
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • FitzochrisFitzochris Posts: 242MI6 Agent
    Anyone up for starting a petition to get the gunbarrel moved to he start of the film?

    It feels to me they've tacked it on at the end to appease the fans, just so they can say: "It's there so stop moaning!"

    The more I think about it, the more absurd it seems. I know I haven't seen the film yet, but even when I do, I won't see any justification for it being there.

    It needs to come after the MGM logo. It announces Bond on a grand, recognisable scale. For the film to start without it, yes, it is just like the opening to any other action movie
  • RavenstoneRavenstone EnglandPosts: 152MI6 Agent
    0073 wrote:
    Flemings Golden Gun? remember, starts with Bond as a Manchurian Candidate, with no control over his own destiny, a puppet, an amnesiac, an unwilling pawn in someone else's game, trying to murder M. :v

    Damn. Got to be 20 years since I read that one. Doh 8-)
  • SeahawkSeahawk Posts: 85MI6 Agent
    I don't actually think Bourne would have ever been created had Bond not been. However, nothing is created in a vacuum & the Bond franchise itself has shown creative debts to other sources over the years.To name but a few: DN,Bond's very first scene in the very first Bond film owes an acknowledged debt to a very similar scene in Juarez.
    FRWL: The helicopter attack on Bond owes a massive debt to North By North West.
    GF:Richard Vernon's portrayal of Smithers is so similar to the "City Gent" he played in "A Hard Day's Night" (made vey shortly earlier) that it is not difficult to believe that they are in fact the same character.
    LALD:"Blaxploitation" is at the peak of its popularity, we get a "Blaxploitation" Bond film. Occult horror is in vogue, we get a Bond film with Occult undertones. Add to that the similarities between the speedboat chase and the one in the previous year's "Puppet on a Chain" then notice that, in the wake of "Dirty Harry" Bond is suddenly using a .44 Magnum & we have the most eclectic Bond film to date.
    TMWTGG:Jumps on the Kung Fu bandwagon as enthusiastically as LALD jumped on the "Blaxploitation" one,was intended to display the influence of "Shane" & has a surprisingly large number of factors in common with "The Wicker Man"
    MR: Has so many plot elements & locations in common with "Se tutte le donne del mondo" that Imdb goes so far as to describe it as a remake of that film.Also shows the influence of "Star Wars" & "Close Encounters..." & has a cable car sequence which is very similar to the one in "Where Eagles Dare". This would be my nominee for the title of "Most derivative Bond film".
    FYEO: Looking to return to a more realistic style,Cubby Broccoli cited "The Guns of Navarone" as his favourite thriller. The infiltration of the monastery certainly has something of both the look & feel of that film.
    OP:A Soviet-influenced attempt to detonate nuclear warheads in a Western European NATO member state in order to incite unilateral nuclear disarmament. Same idea was used in the previous year's "Who Dares Wins".
    LTK:In the wake of "Rambo" & its imitators we get a maverick Bond on a completely personal mission of revenge.
    If the above sounds too negative you may like to consider how many of the types of storytelling cited have subsequently gone out of fashion.
    Bond films are still being made. I am strongly confident that they will still be being made when Bourne is merely a footnote in Film History as well.
  • Max EMax E In the northPosts: 80MI6 Agent
    It is two reasons that CR is different if you compare with the other bond films.

    1. New actor, Daniel Craig

    2. Bourne films earned som much more money than Bond films, and then the Bond films begun to be more realistic, unfortunely...
    You know in America it’s “bling, bling”, but out here it’s “bling, bang”.
  • Pud2002Pud2002 Posts: 65MI6 Agent
    who's decision is it to leave out the bond theme and move the gunbarrel anyway? Producers,directors,script writters, David Arnold (for the theme) or a bit of everyone?
  • frostbittenfrostbitten Chateau d'EtchebarPosts: 286MI6 Agent
    Max E wrote:
    2. Bourne films earned som much more money than Bond films, and then the Bond films begun to be more realistic, unfortunely...

    Actually, if you compare Bourne Identity to Die Another Day since they came out in the same year, BI only made 121.5M in the US, while DAD made 160M. It can be argued that the reasons prompting the Bond producers to go for a reboot are stylistic and/or artistic ones, but from a financial point of view, the Bond franchise changing their direction to follow Bourne would be like a Super Bowl winner changing their style to imitate the team that they just beat. :)
  • Max EMax E In the northPosts: 80MI6 Agent
    edited October 2008
    Max E wrote:
    2. Bourne films earned som much more money than Bond films, and then the Bond films begun to be more realistic, unfortunely...

    Actually, if you compare Bourne Identity to Die Another Day since they came out in the same year, BI only made 121.5M in the US, while DAD made 160M. It can be argued that the reasons prompting the Bond producers to go for a reboot are stylistic and/or artistic ones, but from a financial point of view, the Bond franchise changing their direction to follow Bourne would be like a Super Bowl winner changing their style to imitate the team that they just beat. :)

    Ok, I did not know that, but the point is that "they" makes Bond more and more like Bourne. That is very, very BAD.

    We must hope that NOT everything of the iconic Bond dies out.
    You know in America it’s “bling, bling”, but out here it’s “bling, bang”.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    I've said it before---and others have said it as well---but if it took Jason Bourne to force Eon to reassess what they'd been doing lately...great.

    Bourne is fine entertainment; highly enjoyable. If they make more, I'll watch more. But he isn't---and will never, never be---James Bond :007)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • wordswords Buckinghamshire, EnglandPosts: 249MI6 Agent
    I can see how the Bond style has shifted and if Bourne caused that then great, because I loved Casino Royale.

    Personally though, I don't understand the fuss about the Bourne movies - decent action films but I haven't got that excited about them. I have watched The Transporter movies more! (Sorry, is that a bad thing to admit! ;%)
  • leongpcleongpc Posts: 38MI6 Agent
    bourne 4 is in the pipeline for 2010. called 'the bourne legacy'. and book number 5 is already out called the bourne betrayal. i think they see $$$$$ in this bourne series.
    but seriously, nothing beats good old bond. bourne has fallen out with the CIA after movie/book no:3 so he's not an agent anymore.
  • Max EMax E In the northPosts: 80MI6 Agent
    I've said it before---and others have said it as well---but if it took Jason Bourne to force Eon to reassess what they'd been doing lately...great.

    Bourne is fine entertainment; highly enjoyable. If they make more, I'll watch more. But he isn't---and will never, never be---James Bond :007)

    That´s right. After all he is an american and is absolute not Bond.
    You know in America it’s “bling, bling”, but out here it’s “bling, bang”.
  • frostbittenfrostbitten Chateau d'EtchebarPosts: 286MI6 Agent
    Frankly, I find the Bourne films rather repetitive and unimaginative. After all, the plot is simple, and stays pretty much the same through all 3 films. Bourne lost his memory, then gradually rediscovered his past. He must then elude his former employer's assassins, all the while agonising over things he had done in his former life. That's pretty much all the Bourne films in a nutshell. After a while, I think people go to these films to see what spectacular new tricks the stunt team can cook up, and what cool moves Bourne can pull to put away the thugs sent after him, than to watch any kind of complex plot of espionage and intrigue.
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    If they can find a new way to motivate Bourne (other than him wanting to be left alone by the evil government for whom he used to work), it can work...
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
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