So many questions

Higgins

I have written down my disappointment in the quick reviews, but like to specify my critics a bit:

I think, they could have done much more out of the car chase. All the action scenes are cut too fast and you easily loose track.
However I disagree, that there are only action scenes, I even find some slow moments plain boring.

The titles and AWTD are as awful as they can be and when the moment for revenge comes at the end of the movie, they don't even show us 007 sqeezing this guy! Another brilliant chance missed.
Dominic Greene is a weak villain, he did not scare me at all. And 007 villains should not sweat and wear worn-out linnen white shirts! He looks like a tramp and not like an evil villain!

I have so many questions:
Why is Camille tanned, when inside of the building and pale after she walks out?
Why do MI5 send an ordinary staffer to bring 007 back home from Bolivia?
Why is 007 wearing a TF suit in the plane when going to Bolivia?
Why does Fields wear a trench in the warm Bolivia and cowboy boots?
Why does she go to bed with 007? Is it just, because he upgraded their hotels?
Is the truck driver in the car chase a baddie or just a bad driver?
Why does 007 buy the plane to get to the desert hotel by knowing, that they are warned. He has a nice Range Rover to travel the desert without being discovered?
Even Everyone is warned, why can 007 easily walk the hotel roof and intrude the hotel that way?
Why does 007 let Dominic Green in the desert instead of bringing him home to London?
Greene has been found dead with oil in his stomach and 2 bullets. So, Quantum found kim and shot him. So, why did'nt they find 007 with his black Ford SUV? And why does Greene have oil in the stomach AND 2 bullets? Does this mean, if Quantum finds their head dead n the desert, they shoot him just to be sure?

I am sure, that there are more open questions, I must confess, that I did not enjoy the movie very much.

Osato

Bondtoys wrote:

I have written down my disappointment in the quick reviews, but like to specify my critics a bit:

I think, they could have done much more out of the car chase. All the action scenes are cut too fast and you easily loose track.
However I disagree, that there are only action scenes, I even find some slow moments plain boring.

The titles and AWTD are as awful as they can be and when the moment for revenge comes at the end of the movie, they don't even show us 007 sqeezing this guy! Another brilliant chance missed.
Dominic Greene is a weak villain, he did not scare me at all. And 007 villains should not sweat and wear worn-out linnen white shirts! He looks like a tramp and not like an evil villain!

I have so many questions:
Why is Camille tanned, when inside of the building and pale after she walks out?
Why do MI5 send an ordinary staffer to bring 007 back home from Bolivia?
Why is 007 wearing a TF suit in the plane when going to Bolivia?
Why does Fields wear a trench in the warm Bolivia and cowboy boots?
Why does she go to bed with 007? Is it just, because he upgraded their hotels?
Is the truck driver in the car chase a baddie or just a bad driver?
Why does 007 buy the plane to get to the desert hotel by knowing, that they are warned. He has a nice Range Rover to travel the desert without being discovered?
Even Everyone is warned, why can 007 easily walk the hotel roof and intrude the hotel that way?
Why does 007 let Dominic Green in the desert instead of bringing him home to London?
Greene has been found dead with oil in his stomach and 2 bullets. So, Quantum found kim and shot him. So, why did'nt they find 007 with his black Ford SUV? And why does Greene have oil in the stomach AND 2 bullets? Does this mean, if Quantum finds their head dead n the desert, they shoot him just to be sure?

I am sure, that there are more open questions, I must confess, that I did not enjoy the movie very much.

I agree with the car chase to the extent that they could have pulled out for a long shot here and there just to let you know where all the vehicles are in relation to Bond's. This would also have helped the boat chase, but they're both still exciting to watch.

Titles and song: you're right!
Greene: they went for more believable characters, so no scars, white cats or volcano headquarters - and it does have a more sinister effect if the baddie is someone who could actually exist.

Camille's skin tone probably just looks different in diferent lighting, everyone's does.
Fields: she was sent in trenchcoat & boots because she's gorgeous and it's a Bond film! (OK, goes against my 'realism' argument, but don't begrudge us this!). And she sleeps with 007 because HE's gorgeous (I'm told).
Bond lets Greene go in the desert because he knows that Quantum will catch up with him and finish him (which they do). They make the bullet holes, but the motor oil is in his stomach because he was given a can of it to drink by Bond, and was so thirsty in the desert that he just had to drink it ("I'll give you twenty miles before you consider drinking that" - or words to that effect). It also allows a little poetic justice, as we learned earlier that Fields was drowned in oil.

I can't answer all criticisms, as the film has flaws as all (or most) films do, but sometimes it's better to just accept the plot-holes and inconsistencies and enjoy the entertaiment, which QOS offers plenty of.

My two cents.

stumac7

Also Bond told Greene he would let him go if he told Bond everything he knew. Bond, being a man of his word did this, it was just in the middle of the desert. Very clever IMHO

Higgins

Osato wrote:

Camille's skin tone probably just looks different in diferent lighting, everyone's does.


Bond lets Greene go in the desert because he knows that Quantum will catch up with him and finish him (which they do). They make the bullet holes, but the motor oil is in his stomach because he was given a can of it to drink by Bond, and was so thirsty in the desert that he just had to drink it ("I'll give you twenty miles before you consider drinking that" - or words to that effect). It also allows a little poetic justice, as we learned earlier that Fields was drowned in oil.

.

Thanks Osato,

but Camille's skincolour is not caused by the different lighting.

and, if Quantum is so clever to find Greene in the desert, why don't they realize, that he's dying because of the oil in his stomach?

And the Bregenz meeting: I mean, why are they holding a board meeting in the opera? Could'nt they find a hotel room or a Spectre-like meeting room?

I can't imagine a more worse place than an opera. Sometimes very loud, and in the silent parts, your neighbours will definitely shhhhhhht you when you start talking with your headset...

And, why is the hood of the first Ford SUV in the first appearance damaged and later on perfect?

and why does 007 have a PPK. I am no gun expert, but have learned from the gun NERDS that the PPK is a slim weapon, when needs to be hidden, but when you are going to the party, you'd better have a powerful weapon like the P99.

Colonel Shatner

Bondtoys wrote:

but Camille's skincolour is not caused by the different lighting.

I didn't really notice her skin tone and maybe it is a continuity error of a kind, since the interior of the desert hotel was a set in Pinewood Studios, England, so she may have lost her tan a bit (or yet to gain it).

and, if Quantum is so clever to find Greene in the desert, why don't they realize, that he's dying because of the oil in his stomach?

I don't think the engine oil was killing him, but the Quantum operatives that caught up with Greene didn't care anyway and had a job to do. They probably noticed Bond, but the ever patient and ominpresent Quantum syndicate could deal with him later.

And the Bregenz meeting: I mean, why are they holding a board meeting in the opera? Could'nt they find a hotel room or a Spectre-like meeting room?

I can't imagine a more worse place than an opera. Sometimes very loud, and in the silent parts, your neighbours will definitely shhhhhhht you when you start talking with your headset...

That bit was very cleaver and it was a convincing way for the Quantum conspirators to meet in the open without attracting the attention of government agencies - a conference room in a basement similar to the SPECTRE meeting chamber from Thunderball would be vulnurable to a police raid if they were tracked down by spies and investigators. An opera or some other similar gathering of rich people would be the last place for MI6 to look.

The Quantum ear pieces were obviously sophisticated because they could spoken into no matter the ambient noise and no matter the volume of the wearer's voice, while most people these days are slightly more tolerant of people yacking into their mobile phones and now bluetooths. )

Fitzochris

Bondtoys wrote:

and why does 007 have a PPK. I am no gun expert, but have learned from the gun NERDS that the PPK is a slim weapon, when needs to be hidden, but when you are going to the party, you'd better have a powerful weapon like the P99.

According to Major Boothroyd, the PPK carries a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window.

Napoleon Plural

I just didn't get how or why Bond buys the plane or does he hire it? I assumed at first someone else was flying it; it it normal to just rent out some random Art Deco DC-10 like that? And what about his paperwork and getting the plane back, that sort of stuff. Or are we not supposed to wonder about that?

I suppose it's quicker than going by car. Is it a governent attacking or Solace or both? I was past caring by this stage.

maddyhind

stumac7 wrote:

Also Bond told Greene he would let him go if he told Bond everything he knew. Bond, being a man of his word did this, it was just in the middle of the desert. Very clever IMHO

steal from the Eiger Sanction?

Colonel Shatner

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I just didn't get how or why Bond buys the plane or does he hire it? I assumed at first someone else was flying it; it it normal to just rent out some random Art Deco DC-10 like that? And what about his paperwork and getting the plane back, that sort of stuff. Or are we not supposed to wonder about that?

It is poetic license to what kinda of plane Bond hired, but he hired a plane because it would be quicker and seemingly safer to get to the remote reservoir sites that Dominic Greene bought out in the middle of nowhere, since they would've been more exposed to the bad guys by going there by car anyway. Also the bozo running the airfield wanted Camille in exchange for the plane, so had no time for boring paperwork.

I suppose it's quicker than going by car. Is it a governent attacking or Solace or both? I was past caring by this stage.

One presumes they were Bolivian military aircraft dispatched by General Medrano on the behest of Dominic Greene and the Bolivian police were already in Quantum's pocket.

Barbel

Bondtoys wrote:

Why does she [Fields] go to bed with 007? Is it just, because he upgraded their hotels?

It's standard practice in Bond films for a female second lead to go to bed with 007 within minutes if not seconds of their meeting (Jill Masterson and Rosie Carver, for example). And no, it's not much to do with the upgrade- although she was probably impressed by the way he did that!

Inked

Bondtoys wrote:

and, if Quantum is so clever to find Greene in the desert, why don't they realize, that he's dying because of the oil in his stomach?

Colonel Shatner wrote:

I don't think the engine oil was killing him, but the Quantum operatives that caught up with Greene didn't care anyway and had a job to do. They probably noticed Bond, but the ever patient and ominpresent Quantum syndicate could deal with him later.



I personally took it as more likely that when Quantum caught up with Greene, they probably force fed him the oil to find out how much he had leaked to bond and then shot him.

Higgins

Fitzochris wrote:

According to Major Boothroyd, the PPK carries a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window.

Yes, that was in 1962 and Walthers have improved since then.

Higgins

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I just didn't get how or why Bond buys the plane or does he hire it? I assumed at first someone else was flying it; it it normal to just rent out some random Art Deco DC-10 like that? And what about his paperwork and getting the plane back, that sort of stuff. Or are we not supposed to wonder about that?

I suppose it's quicker than going by car. Is it a governent attacking or Solace or both? I was past caring by this stage.

Yes, it may be quicker, but not very discrete if you are going to infiltrate a hotel.

You can choose: Land far away with a veeery long walk thru the desert or a near landing, which is a bit noisy imho.

According to the german syncro, the seller asked for Camille and Bond gave his Range Rover as a downpayment instead.

And I would assume, that there is not much paperwork in Bolivia...

Fitzochris

Bondtoys wrote:

Fitzochris wrote:

According to Major Boothroyd, the PPK carries a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window.

Yes, that was in 1962 and Walthers have improved since then.

They might have done, but the PPK will still carry a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. If I was shot by one now or back in 1962, I'd be just as dead.

Napoleon Plural

So does he buy it or hire it. I mean, Camille may be hot but maybe not worth giving a DC10 away for. Then again, maybe the bloke was going through a drought...

Higgins

Fitzochris wrote:

They might have done, but the PPK will still carry a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. If I was shot by one now or back in 1962, I'd be just as dead.

Asp9mm, please!!!!!!!

Colonel Shatner

Inked wrote:

I personally took it as more likely that when Quantum caught up with Greene, they probably force fed him the oil to find out how much he had leaked to bond and then shot him.

I guess that actually happened, Quantum is very wheels within wheels, with everybody watched by somebody, ready to swoop in to punish or rescue them, depending on their conduct. Adds to the paranoia.

I'm slightly puzzled by the unseen events surrounding Fields' tragic murder, how Greene's thugs tracked her down, what prevented her from running back to the consulate, with no signs of a struggle in the hotel room and so much oil being poured all over her without leaving any spillage.

But Quantum of Solace's plot holes and narrative non sequiturs are wide rivers as opposed to the ocean channels in GoldenEye's and Die Another Day's scripts. )

Asp9mm

Bondtoys wrote:

Fitzochris wrote:

They might have done, but the PPK will still carry a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. If I was shot by one now or back in 1962, I'd be just as dead.

Asp9mm, please!!!!!!!

Oh OK, even though you called us gun genius' NERDS!!!

The 7.65 round was underpowered in 1962 and was a last ditch defensive gun. The DR NO plate glass window quote is about as far from reality as Bondtoys getting his way with Olga. If you were expecting to be up against people with automatic weapons nowadays, you would certainly not use a 7.65 PPK. The P99 or PPS would be a much better choice. I guess that is why he used the 9 milly SIG in the finale.

And you would only be 'just as dead' if that small round hit a very vital organ. The 7.65 round is lethal, but needs a direct hit and close contact. Thick coats and indirect hits may prevent penetration. The 9mm round is much more effective and lethal with indirect hits and non vital organ contact due to the shockwave causing tissue damage. Add hollowpoints and other wonder-ammo into the equation and you are much much better armed and liklier to survive a firefight.

Higgins

Asp9mm wrote:

Oh OK, even though you called us gun genius' NERDS!

Ok sorry:


Gun-NUTS

and you have no idea, with how many Olgas I have gotten my way with till today.

Loeffelholz

Just to clarify: The 'art deco DC-10' is a DC-3 (military designation C47)...the sort of old aircraft rumoured to be owned/flown by drug runners and controversial James Bonds

jetsetwilly

Bondtoys wrote:

Yes, it may be quicker, but not very discrete if you are going to infiltrate a hotel.

You can choose: Land far away with a veeery long walk thru the desert or a near landing, which is a bit noisy imho.

According to the german syncro, the seller asked for Camille and Bond gave his Range Rover as a downpayment instead.

And I would assume, that there is not much paperwork in Bolivia...

They were flying to view the Greene Planet project, not to infiltrate the hotel. After the plane is shot down, they find the reservoirs, take the bus back to the city and find Fields' body. It's not shown how they then get from there to the hotel, but since no-one spotted them arrive we can assume they were pretty discreet. And as for what Bond said or did to obtain the aeroplane, I'm assuming it's pretty similar to what Pam Bouvier said or did in LTK to get hold of the crop duster at Isthmus Airport (i.e. "I need an aeroplane I can destroy in a wildly exciting action sequence").

As for Greene having oil and bullets inside him... If Quantum caught up with him and Greene said,"Well, you could shoot me, but to be honest I just swallowed a litre of oil so I'm going to die anyway," would the assassin just say, "Fair enough; I'll leave you to it." Or would they want to make sure? In fact, how do we know that Quantum weren't performing a mercy kill, and putting the dying Greene out of his misery?

Higgins

Thanks, jsw.

I agree on the plane. However, if Quantum is really so everywhere, I am sure, that they have noticed Greene drinking the oil or the first symthoms of oil poisening.

Btw, what's the story with your AVATAR?

jetsetwilly

It's a bit out of date now, but it's the amazing Tina Fey as Sarah Palin, taken from one of the SNL sketches. It was the US Vice-Presidential debates, and "Sarah" got her flute out and asked if it was time for the Talent section

Higgins

ah, I must have missed that flute scetch.

But SNL rocks, with Tima as Sarah and without...

Thundernuts

jetsetwilly wrote:

Bondtoys wrote:

Yes, it may be quicker, but not very discrete if you are going to infiltrate a hotel.

You can choose: Land far away with a veeery long walk thru the desert or a near landing, which is a bit noisy imho.

According to the german syncro, the seller asked for Camille and Bond gave his Range Rover as a downpayment instead.

And I would assume, that there is not much paperwork in Bolivia...

They were flying to view the Greene Planet project, not to infiltrate the hotel. After the plane is shot down, they find the reservoirs, take the bus back to the city and find Fields' body. It's not shown how they then get from there to the hotel, but since no-one spotted them arrive we can assume they were pretty discreet. And as for what Bond said or did to obtain the aeroplane, I'm assuming it's pretty similar to what Pam Bouvier said or did in LTK to get hold of the crop duster at Isthmus Airport (i.e. "I need an aeroplane I can destroy in a wildly exciting action sequence").

As for Greene having oil and bullets inside him... If Quantum caught up with him and Greene said,"Well, you could shoot me, but to be honest I just swallowed a litre of oil so I'm going to die anyway," would the assassin just say, "Fair enough; I'll leave you to it." Or would they want to make sure? In fact, how do we know that Quantum weren't performing a mercy kill, and putting the dying Greene out of his misery?

It's a film. Most films require some willing suspension of disbelief! Bond films are notorious for gaping plot holes, and you're expected to draw your own conclusions about Greene's death.

Two things - I carried a Walther PPK as a British Soldier in Northern Ireland. I did three tours between 1992 and 1994 - One in 'Plain Clothes'

We called it the 'Disco Gun' back then because it was so easy to conceal.

Although it certainly didn't pack the punch of the favoured Browning Hi Power, I would use the PPK while wearing plain clothes during the summer, because I could literally hide it in the small of my back and pull a polo shirt over it.

And I can assure you that it's perfectly effective at around 25m, even today.

The second thing is that I'm told the Walther PPK returned on this film as Craig and Forster wanted it in there.

As iconic a James Bond item as it is, I was glad to see it again...

Asp9mm

Thundernuts wrote:

Two things - I carried a Walther PPK as a British Soldier in Northern Ireland. I did three tours between 1992 and 1994 - One in 'Plain Clothes'

We called it the 'Disco Gun' back then because it was so easy to conceal.

Although it certainly didn't pack the punch of the favoured Browning Hi Power, I would use the PPK while wearing plain clothes during the summer, because I could literally hide it in the small of my back and pull a polo shirt over it.

I was there in exactly that period too, spooky, we must have crossed paths. Surely you didn't carry the PPK as your primary arm though ?:) Apart from the 'lumpy-jumpers' no male operator would do such a thing.

Thundernuts

No, never as a primary arm - Like I say, Generally had a Browning Hi-Power for that.

In 1994 I was in East Tyrone at Aughnacloy. If we were going out in the summer, a 9mm was incredibly difficult to conceal unless you wore a jacket and if you did that on a drive to Dungannon, you might have well have just worn a T-Shirt that said "Plain Clothes Soldier"

Asp9mm

There was so much other crap we had to carry like comms, batteries, cameras and spare Browning mags etc. We never had the luxury of not wearing a jacket or tracksuit top as we were constantly on the net and the chances of a contact were high. I was based in the badlands I went on to teach pistol combat to future operators. Only carried the PPK a few times, great gun to shoot, but was no BHP I'd hate to have one if some dicker opened up with an armalite.

Thundernuts

Ah you see, that's where you and I differ.

I was never a sneaky-beaky, I had a very simple plain clothes job and was 'loaned' from the Royal Artillery.

Mainly, I would have been driving around in CMV's, picking up troops and officers from Aldergrove and driving for brews at 'Slipper City' in Lisburn.

If you ran any of the pistol ranges at Ballykinler though, we'd have almost certainly crossed paths..

Asp9mm

I did all training on the mainland, but I did train a few people in NI after concerns over small arms training in regular units were raised. If you remember a scruffy looking lanky bloke that toted a flashy Smith and Wesson 669 in stainless steel (procured off a Gazelle pilot in our unit) coming to your area, that would have been me. Good to meet someone else on the boards that did the tours though. There are a couple more members here, as well as an ex RUC bloke. And at least you can understand the lingo when I get going on one of my long winded posts, not to mention a shared affinity for the BHP {[] .....and brews.

discovolante

Why didn't Greene try to kill Camille again after the first attempt failed?
Why did Camille show up at the Greene Planet fund-raiser?
Why did Bond hire the large attention getting DC-3 for his surveying of the desert?
Why kill Mathis?