I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this but it is completely beyond my understanding why any fan of the Bond films, especially fans of Casino Royale, could possibly love Quantum Of Solace more or even as much as Casino Royale. Bond's character has been removed, the plot is terrible, there are too many completely unnecessary and ridiculous action sequences, and not enough character chemistry. QOS was an okay action movie but one of the biggest disappointments I've ever been subjected to.
Really? I could not go that far. I don't think it was the finest Bond film, but by no means was it such a blown concept. Look at all the Bond fans who thought it was really good, doesn't that help its case a little bit? Surely not so many Bond fans could like it when it is such a big dissapointment. Then again, in the end it is only personal opinion...Bondology is no science. -{
I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this but it is completely beyond my understanding why any fan of the Bond films, especially fans of Casino Royale, could possibly love Quantum Of Solace more or even as much as Casino Royale. Bond's character has been removed, the plot is terrible, there are too many completely unnecessary and ridiculous action sequences, and not enough character chemistry. QOS was an okay action movie but one of the biggest disappointments I've ever been subjected to.
Well the answer is peoples opinion differs. Period.
I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this but it is completely beyond my understanding why any fan of the Bond films, especially fans of Casino Royale, could possibly love Quantum Of Solace more or even as much as Casino Royale. Bond's character has been removed, the plot is terrible, there are too many completely unnecessary and ridiculous action sequences, and not enough character chemistry. QOS was an okay action movie but one of the biggest disappointments I've ever been subjected to.
Ain't that the truth.
Well the answer is peoples opinion differs. Period.
"We have all the time in the world..."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this but it is completely beyond my understanding why any fan of the Bond films, especially fans of Casino Royale, could possibly love Quantum Of Solace more or even as much as Casino Royale. Bond's character has been removed...
No offense taken, of course...but similarly, I'm not sure how one comes to the conclusion that Bond's character has been removed. It's all taste, obviously, but I recognized my Bond quite easily in the latest offering.
...and not enough character chemistry. QOS was an okay action movie but one of the biggest disappointments I've ever been subjected to.
In all honesty, the frantic narrative pace is one of my negative notes on the film. IMO, so much more could have been achieved, at several key moments, by affording a simple five or ten-second 'dramatic beat.' As I said in my review...
...we Bond fans yearn to savour certain moments in a Bond film, much like Our Hero savours his fine food and drink. Similarly, I can't really quarrel with those who disapprove of the editing of the action, even though I understand what the filmmakers are trying to achieve.
For me, CR ranks as my 4th overall favourite Bond film. QoS is at #6.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
In terms of pacing, score, editing, screenplay, or just the overall Bondian feel of the whole movie, QoS is about half of the film that CR was. That's why I gave CR 6/7 and QoS 3/7.
Overall, although I haven't redone my film rankings, I'm sure QoS will fall into the bottom half.
In terms of pacing, score, editing, screenplay, or just the overall Bondian feel of the whole movie, QoS is about half of the film that CR was. That's why I gave CR 6/7 and QoS 3/7.
Overall, although I haven't redone my film rankings, I'm sure QoS will fall into the bottom half.
Interesting, but I now respect you no matter what as TWINE is your favourite too!!!
I just watched CR last night after having watched QOS twice.
CR is definitely the better of the two. I like QoS, but it is certainly not my favourite and although I believe it is 5th or 6th on my list right now it will probably drop as time goes on.
CR had a better plot, better dialogue, great action sequences, a better score, a better villian and I felt more like I was watching Bond and not just some agent. The title sequence was better in CR (except for that part where Vesper's actual face is pasted onto the art...bugh ).
So, suffice it to say, my opinion is that CR is better and will be the best of Craig's Bond films. Furthermore, I believe his third will be better than his second. That's not to say I don't like QoS, but after thinking about it I don't believe it will be considered his best outing.
"We have all the time in the world..."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
The title sequence was better in CR (except for that part where Vesper's actual face is pasted onto the art...bugh ).
I loved that!
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
I personally feel that CR is the better movie because the story is essentially Fleming's original tale, but updated slightly -QOS is IMO a very good continuation of that tale that develops 007's character in a way that shows a determination to get the job done no matter what the consequences.
Both films are very different but complement each other well. Remember life and lives are always changing and the pace of one's life varies too - so the fact that the pace of both films is different -doesn't make one more of a Bond film than the other IMO -both have our hero -doing what he thinks is either right or just necessary.
Essentially though CR is better because its based on fleming's original work.
I personally feel that CR is the better movie because the story is essentially Fleming's original tale, but updated slightly
Essentially though CR is better because its based on fleming's original work.
That's it in a nutshell. Going back to Fleming carries weight because it resonates in a way that pastiche Fleming doesn't. (Though some of my favourite Bond movies- eg TWINE- fall into the latter category.)
The most significant narrative difference between CR and QOS: in CR, we're introduced to the bad guys right after the titles, and cut away from Bond's storyline a lot so as to keep us posted on what Le Chiffre and co are doing next.
But in QOS we're only introduced to characters/storylines after Bond is: we meet Camille for the first time when Bond does, and only get a glimpse of Greene and Medrano when Camille leads Bond (and us) to them. This Bond-first narrative structure stays with QOS all the way to the end (we're only privvy to Medrano and Greene's confrontation in La Perla becuase Bond and Camille are outside getting ready to attack - indeed, Forster intercuts Camille infiltrating the hotel during this bit of bad guy business). This is incredibly expert writing/directing IMO, the best Fleming novels followed this IIRC (I think FRWL might be the only significant break with this, the first 5 or 6 chapters deal exclusively with SMERSH setting up their plan - oh, and not counting TSWLM ).
IMHO, CR would only have benefitted by such a narrative flow: much of the padding in the first half of the film is cutaways from Bond, info from which could have been shown differently - in fact M repeats info we already have after Miami when she's shoving Bond off to the poker game. It's not something I mind a whole lot one way or the other, but if I have a preference it's with QOS's sleeker and more Bond-centric storytelling (the last half of CR follows such a format much more closely as storylines have converged, and works for me that much better because of it).
I can respect that, something about it just makes me throw up a little in the back of my mouth though.
I loved that paste of her face too, It looks different but I really like it. Really good symbolism.
Really guys? I can't believe it. That part bugs me so much...you can't even imagine. There are few things in the Bond films that bug me and that right there is one of them.
LOL.
I find it so funny that people can have such different opinions on something! )
Watched CR last night, went to see QOS today (even sat real close ).
With the benefit of QOS-hindsight glasses, CR last night seemed like a fairy-tale Bond: rich Disneyesque colors, dialogue at times sounding fairly Saturday morning cartoony (which isn't out of the norm for Bond, lol), very straight-line filmmaking everything from plot to editing to score. Yet there were moments that transcended this veneer of obviousness: the stairwell fight and shower scene really stick out, the dinner-on-the-train scene, the poker game (the tell, the loss, the win), the torture scene, the house sinking. Liked the PTS although the magically exploding bathroom didn't need to be like that, also loved the coda at the end with White. It felt very odd watching so much filler just to get to the cool moments, really think CR as a much shorter and tighter film would be better.
As for QOS today, the action is all still way fun, and the dramatic moments rule - I'd list them but it's mostly a film of dramatic moments with hardly any filler. Medrano keeps getting creepier, and Bond and Greene's square-off at the La Paz party over Camille keeps getting bigger. I really enjoyed watching Bond and Camille get to know each other along the way, no skewered lamb dinner scene for those two. And the kiss at the end is maybe the best Bond kiss ever IMO. Greene's demise is priceless, and whomever wrote the M/Bond scenes in this one needs a medal or something, they finally got a definitive performance from Dench after jerking about with her (better here than in CR, too one-note in the earlier film IMO). The ending is staggering, that necklace in the snow is topped only by the final frame of OHMSS.
QOS is CR all growed up in adult clothes. Nothing against cartoons, but I love me the nasty-ass sequel-thriller to pieces. ;%
Comments
Really? I could not go that far. I don't think it was the finest Bond film, but by no means was it such a blown concept. Look at all the Bond fans who thought it was really good, doesn't that help its case a little bit? Surely not so many Bond fans could like it when it is such a big dissapointment. Then again, in the end it is only personal opinion...Bondology is no science. -{
Well the answer is peoples opinion differs. Period.
"Better make that two."
No offense taken, of course...but similarly, I'm not sure how one comes to the conclusion that Bond's character has been removed. It's all taste, obviously, but I recognized my Bond quite easily in the latest offering.
In a Bond film?? Have the producers been notified?
In all honesty, the frantic narrative pace is one of my negative notes on the film. IMO, so much more could have been achieved, at several key moments, by affording a simple five or ten-second 'dramatic beat.' As I said in my review...
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=31638&cpage=17
...we Bond fans yearn to savour certain moments in a Bond film, much like Our Hero savours his fine food and drink. Similarly, I can't really quarrel with those who disapprove of the editing of the action, even though I understand what the filmmakers are trying to achieve.
For me, CR ranks as my 4th overall favourite Bond film. QoS is at #6.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Overall, although I haven't redone my film rankings, I'm sure QoS will fall into the bottom half.
Interesting, but I now respect you no matter what as TWINE is your favourite too!!!
"Better make that two."
Hey, it's great to hear there's another TWINE fan! There are so few of us left...
Welcome to this "exclusive" club
CR is definitely the better of the two. I like QoS, but it is certainly not my favourite and although I believe it is 5th or 6th on my list right now it will probably drop as time goes on.
CR had a better plot, better dialogue, great action sequences, a better score, a better villian and I felt more like I was watching Bond and not just some agent. The title sequence was better in CR (except for that part where Vesper's actual face is pasted onto the art...bugh
So, suffice it to say, my opinion is that CR is better and will be the best of Craig's Bond films. Furthermore, I believe his third will be better than his second. That's not to say I don't like QoS, but after thinking about it I don't believe it will be considered his best outing.
I loved that!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Both films are very different but complement each other well. Remember life and lives are always changing and the pace of one's life varies too - so the fact that the pace of both films is different -doesn't make one more of a Bond film than the other IMO -both have our hero -doing what he thinks is either right or just necessary.
Essentially though CR is better because its based on fleming's original work.
That's it in a nutshell. Going back to Fleming carries weight because it resonates in a way that pastiche Fleming doesn't. (Though some of my favourite Bond movies- eg TWINE- fall into the latter category.)
The most significant narrative difference between CR and QOS: in CR, we're introduced to the bad guys right after the titles, and cut away from Bond's storyline a lot so as to keep us posted on what Le Chiffre and co are doing next.
But in QOS we're only introduced to characters/storylines after Bond is: we meet Camille for the first time when Bond does, and only get a glimpse of Greene and Medrano when Camille leads Bond (and us) to them. This Bond-first narrative structure stays with QOS all the way to the end (we're only privvy to Medrano and Greene's confrontation in La Perla becuase Bond and Camille are outside getting ready to attack - indeed, Forster intercuts Camille infiltrating the hotel during this bit of bad guy business). This is incredibly expert writing/directing IMO, the best Fleming novels followed this IIRC (I think FRWL might be the only significant break with this, the first 5 or 6 chapters deal exclusively with SMERSH setting up their plan - oh, and not counting TSWLM
IMHO, CR would only have benefitted by such a narrative flow: much of the padding in the first half of the film is cutaways from Bond, info from which could have been shown differently - in fact M repeats info we already have after Miami when she's shoving Bond off to the poker game. It's not something I mind a whole lot one way or the other, but if I have a preference it's with QOS's sleeker and more Bond-centric storytelling (the last half of CR follows such a format much more closely as storylines have converged, and works for me that much better because of it).
I can respect that, something about it just makes me throw up a little in the back of my mouth though.
I loved that paste of her face too, It looks different but I really like it. Really good symbolism.
"Better make that two."
Really guys? I can't believe it. That part bugs me so much...you can't even imagine. There are few things in the Bond films that bug me and that right there is one of them.
LOL.
I find it so funny that people can have such different opinions on something!
With the benefit of QOS-hindsight glasses, CR last night seemed like a fairy-tale Bond: rich Disneyesque colors, dialogue at times sounding fairly Saturday morning cartoony (which isn't out of the norm for Bond, lol), very straight-line filmmaking everything from plot to editing to score. Yet there were moments that transcended this veneer of obviousness: the stairwell fight and shower scene really stick out, the dinner-on-the-train scene, the poker game (the tell, the loss, the win), the torture scene, the house sinking. Liked the PTS although the magically exploding bathroom didn't need to be like that, also loved the coda at the end with White. It felt very odd watching so much filler just to get to the cool moments, really think CR as a much shorter and tighter film would be better.
As for QOS today, the action is all still way fun, and the dramatic moments rule - I'd list them but it's mostly a film of dramatic moments with hardly any filler. Medrano keeps getting creepier, and Bond and Greene's square-off at the La Paz party over Camille keeps getting bigger. I really enjoyed watching Bond and Camille get to know each other along the way, no skewered lamb dinner scene for those two. And the kiss at the end is maybe the best Bond kiss ever IMO. Greene's demise is priceless, and whomever wrote the M/Bond scenes in this one needs a medal or something, they finally got a definitive performance from Dench after jerking about with her (better here than in CR, too one-note in the earlier film IMO). The ending is staggering, that necklace in the snow is topped only by the final frame of OHMSS.
QOS is CR all growed up in adult clothes. Nothing against cartoons, but I love me the nasty-ass sequel-thriller to pieces. ;%