The Couple at The End

Christmas Tounes

This is now the only bit I don't understand after seeing the film again. Who is that bloke at the end...

Hes a secret Quantum agent with a girlfriend in the Canadian intelligence. He's planning the same thing as Vespers boyfriend?

Does this have any significance to Vesper?
And do you think Vespers boyfriend was really a Quantum agent?

Hardyboy

I put a spoiler tag on this so I can give the answer.

CT, the "bloke at the end" IS Vesper's boyfriend. It was revealed in the movie that the body found was not his, and Bond went in search of him. So, yes, he apparently he makes a habit of giving women those Algerian love knots and breaking their hearts.

darenhat

He was Vesper's boyfriend...my understanding was that he, along with Quantum, was manipulating Vesper, which in turn lead her to betray Bond in CR...Thus Bond's dramatic confrontation. IMO, the boyfriend should have been more prevalent throughout QoS, which would have made Bond's 'quest' much more riveting as you see his ultimate prey coming into sight.

EDIT: Sorry, I replied at the same moment as HB!

A7ce

What HB said, the bloke at the end is Yousaf Kabira, Vesper's boyfriend - he does the same trick of befriending female agents of all the secret services so as to ascertain secrets ie leaks. - it was made to look like he was dead by Quantum for MI6 - but Bond and M knew better and he took his pic anyway

Gassy Man

I like that we finally meet him, he's got an oilier Antonio Bandaras/a decade ago sexy thing going on, and Bond let's the girl go, who says a shameful "thank you" before exiting. And Canadian secret service, too.

c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5

He doesn't kill him, but I like to think he knocks him about a bit!

Loeffelholz

c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5 wrote:

He doesn't kill him, but I like to think he knocks him about a bit!

Me too... B-)

I rather like that he's not the focus of QoS...the confrontation makes for a nice 'coda' for the film---however, as with several scenes in QoS, I'd have liked to have seen a bit more of that one...

lavabubble

Gassy Man wrote:

I like that we finally meet him, he's got an oilier Antonio Bandaras/a decade ago sexy thing going on, and Bond let's the girl go, who says a shameful "thank you" before exiting. And Canadian secret service, too.

I loved the "thank you" - there was something about him letting her go that struck a chord with me as if it was something that he wished he could've done for Vesper - perhaps saving the Canadian woman brought him full circle and that contributed to his being able to let the boyfriend live and leave the necklace behind.

Colonel Shatner

I wonder why Quantum is interested in Canada and its intelligence service? They're a member of NATO and part of the G8, so subverting them would be of great benefit to Quantum, what benefit we don't know for sure.

Gassy Man

lavabubble wrote:

Gassy Man wrote:

I like that we finally meet him, he's got an oilier Antonio Bandaras/a decade ago sexy thing going on, and Bond let's the girl go, who says a shameful "thank you" before exiting. And Canadian secret service, too.

I loved the "thank you" - there was something about him letting her go that struck a chord with me as if it was something that he wished he could've done for Vesper - perhaps saving the Canadian woman brought him full circle and that contributed to his being able to let the boyfriend live and leave the necklace behind.

It's a nice bit, but I've seen it somewhere else . . . maybe in an old episode of "The Equalizer" or another spy show. The circumstances were similar, too.

lavabubble

Funnily enough I used to watch a lot of The Equalizer when I was younger so you could well be right there.

Christmas Tounes

I feel like a donut. Too many -{ -{ -{ before the film. When was it revealed that the body found wasn't Vespers boyfriend?

A7ce

Christmas Tounes wrote:

I feel like a donut. Too many -{ -{ -{ before the film. When was it revealed that the body found wasn't Vespers boyfriend?

After the Alfa/Aston car chase and before Mr White's interrogation - well, actually the scene ' when Bond says, whilst sipping a drink 'he's not important to me ... and neither was she'.... - but pockets the photo from the album when M's back is turned - after which Mr White does his speech in the most campest form imaginable - 'we have people everywhere'.

Ravenstone

Right at the beginning, where M tells Bond "We're supposed to believe the fishes did that to him" and she tells how they did a DNA comparison with a lock of hair found in Vesper's apartment. Bond says, "She didn't seem the sentimental type". M turns away, Bond swipes the photo as he picks up the tumbler of whisky.

Agent Wade

Colonel Shatner wrote:

I wonder why Quantum is interested in Canada and its intelligence service? They're a member of NATO and part of the G8, so subverting them would be of great benefit to Quantum, what benefit we don't know for sure.

Just look at all the exploitable natural resources that Canada has to offer! Why wouldn't Quantum want a piece of that?

Christmas Tounes

Ah.. I must have still been thinking 'urgh' after seeing that picture of a mutilated face!

Thanks for clearing that up a bit embarrasing for a Bond fan but if you ask the general public I bet less than 1 in 10 would understand this!

Maybe that was EON's plan - make everyone need to view the film at least 5 times before understanding it!

Agent Wade

Christmas Tounes wrote:

Maybe that was EON's plan - make everyone need to view the film at least 5 times before understanding it!

Well, seriously. How many people were able to read both sets of subtitles in the scene with the taxi cab? That was rapid-fire!

Bella_doc

Agent Wade wrote:

Christmas Tounes wrote:

Maybe that was EON's plan - make everyone need to view the film at least 5 times before understanding it!

Well, seriously. How many people were able to read both sets of subtitles in the scene with the taxi cab? That was rapid-fire!

I got the hang of it the second time. The yellow subtitles were for the taxi driver, the white for Mathis, and no subtitles for the English conversation ... I think.

UniversalExport wrote:

I liked the 'thank you'....typical of us polite Canadians....lol

We get caught doing something shameful and of course thank our rescuers

What was she doing that was shameful? Unless she started spilling secrets before he was "kidnapped". Then that would be bad.

Is it just me, or is anyone else a bit bothered that they made Vesper the victim of such a hoax? On one hand it's tragic and heartbreaking, but on the other (nitpicky) hand it makes her seem foolish and almost unworthy of Bond. Thoughts, anyone ?

Monique

I thought that too Bella. Vesper was too tough and smart to fall for that it would seem....but we all know the heart tends to confuse the brain at times!

Loeffelholz

I think in retrospect it might be easy to call her foolish, or gullible---but love is a many splendored thing (or so the song says), and we would all take extraordinary measures to protect or save someone we love---not just automatically assume that we're being 'played' by an international conspirator.

I thought it was a pretty good way to close the loop on the Vesper chapter in Bond's life---and an even better way to show 007's growth into a more rounded character. If, in #23, he sleeps with a half dozen women and tosses off a quip or two, I actually think it will work.

Higgins

Am I the only one, who's of the opinion, that the filmmakers missed out an IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.

One can say, the best way is to leave it to the imagination of the viewer, which may be the master plan for the entire movie, but I disagree.

It's the same with Greene: Leaving him alone in the desert instead of finishing him in a fight are some of the elements, why the movie left me untouched.

I think, that an "interview" may have been a very highlight of the movie, if well directed and bond does not necessarily have to bash him up and kill him.

leongpc

(that the filmmakers missed out a IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.....It's the same with Greene: Leaving him alone in the desert istead of finishing him in a fight)

who knows, they could have filmed it and is saving it for the dvd special edition release next yr. =P i'm gonna bet the dvd release will be more than 2 hrs long.

Ravenstone

Oh I don't know. I think we can do things in our imagination that would never get a 12A rating. I actually like it when a film-maker allows me to be part of the film-making process. Sort of makes it feel more rounded. Like reading a book.

darenhat

Bondtoys wrote:

Am I the only one, who's of the opinion, that the filmmakers missed out an IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.

You're not alone, Bondtoys. The confrontation with Yousaf was the only moment in QoS where I recall being riveted to the story. (That and maybe the interrogation of Mr. White, which too was aggravatingly cut off). The storytellers had a great moment to bring QoS to a rousing conclusion, but snuffed it.

I like to think that I have a fairly decent imagination, but when I pay the price for a movie ticket, I'm paying to see someone else's imagination. If they're expecting me to do the imagining, then I think it's only fair for them to pay me some money in return.

Gassy Man

Shaky cam, staccato editing, and rebooting established properties are all in vogue now, as is showing scenes leading up to a confrontation and after but not the confrontation itself -- I watched The Constant Gardener, for instance, divided as to whether it was brilliant for not showing the more important moments or a dodge and hustle that allowed everyone involved to escape blowing scenes that would have had to have been impeccable to work. Much as I like Le Carre and the cast of that film, I decided I wanted those scenes -- if I have to imagine all of them, it seems I'm being cheated. In other words, I want the painting, not the outline on a blank canvas.

TonyDP

darenhat wrote:

Bondtoys wrote:

Am I the only one, who's of the opinion, that the filmmakers missed out an IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.

You're not alone, Bondtoys. The confrontation with Yousaf was the only moment in QoS where I recall being riveted to the story. (That and maybe the interrogation of Mr. White, which too was aggravatingly cut off). The storytellers had a great moment to bring QoS to a rousing conclusion, but snuffed it.

I like to think that I have a fairly decent imagination, but when I pay the price for a movie ticket, I'm paying to see someone else's imagination. If they're expecting me to do the imagining, then I think it's only fair for them to pay me some money in return.

The way I saw it, the whole point of that final scene with Yousaf was to show that Bond had finally grown up and was now able to separate his personal feelings from the requirements of his job. After all the chiding he'd gotten from M about needing to take his ego out of the equation and not making the assignment a personal vendetta, to have him then go and torture or kill Yousaf would have been 180 degrees opposite of where the character of Bond was supposed to be at the end of the film. If he did that he would have been exactly the same as he was at the start of CR and his entire arc over the two films would have been rendered largely meaningless. I guess that's why the also put the gunbarrel at the end as this was our first view of the "real" James Bond.

darenhat

TonyDP wrote:

darenhat wrote:

Bondtoys wrote:

Am I the only one, who's of the opinion, that the filmmakers missed out an IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.

You're not alone, Bondtoys. The confrontation with Yousaf was the only moment in QoS where I recall being riveted to the story. (That and maybe the interrogation of Mr. White, which too was aggravatingly cut off). The storytellers had a great moment to bring QoS to a rousing conclusion, but snuffed it.

I like to think that I have a fairly decent imagination, but when I pay the price for a movie ticket, I'm paying to see someone else's imagination. If they're expecting me to do the imagining, then I think it's only fair for them to pay me some money in return.

The way I saw it, the whole point of that final scene with Yousaf was to show that Bond had finally grown up and was now able to separate his personal feelings from the requirements of his job. After all the chiding he'd gotten from M about needing to take his ego out of the equation and not making the assignment a personal vendetta, to have him then go and torture or kill Yousaf would have been 180 degrees opposite of where the character of Bond was supposed to be at the end of the film. If he did that he would have been exactly the same as he was at the start of CR and his entire arc over the two films would have been rendered largely meaningless. I guess that's why the also put the gunbarrel at the end as this was our first view of the "real" James Bond.

Fair enough...but as a creative writing teacher once told me: "Don't tell me, SHOW me!" Rather than having Bond walk out and tell us "I've grown up!" why can't we see Bond's new maturity displayed in stark contrast to Yousaf's primal instinct to fight or flee. This was a moment that really could have defined Bond by deeds, not words.

Higgins

TonyDP wrote:

The way I saw it, the whole point of that final scene with Yousaf was to show that Bond had finally grown up and was now able to separate his personal feelings from the requirements of his job. After all the chiding he'd gotten from M about needing to take his ego out of the equation and not making the assignment a personal vendetta, to have him then go and torture or kill Yousaf would have been 180 degrees opposite of where the character of Bond was supposed to be at the end of the film. If he did that he would have been exactly the same as he was at the start of CR and his entire arc over the two films would have been rendered largely meaningless. I guess that's why the also put the gunbarrel at the end as this was our first view of the "real" James Bond.

Well, I am not necessary talking about torture or killing him.

I could imagine a well directed scene by DC facing him without talking at first and of course the audience is waiting for that he kills him.

But this maturing and growing up can be well played (and DC is paid pretty well for his acting).
And I agree with darenhat: This scene could have defined QoS as a new beginning and DC to BE 007.

So, if they don't show actors doing their job, what's the point to pay for a movie ticket?

And hyping a director to leave out most of the fun to your own fantasy - well :v

It's a bit like: You buy a Rolex from me and I send you a drawing of it and tell you, that you'll like very much more to imagine all the beatiful places, where you COULD wear it, because reality is sometimes very grey....

Thunderbird 2

lavabubble wrote:

Gassy Man wrote:

I like that we finally meet him, he's got an oilier Antonio Bandaras/a decade ago sexy thing going on, and Bond let's the girl go, who says a shameful "thank you" before exiting. And Canadian secret service, too.

I loved the "thank you" - there was something about him letting her go that struck a chord with me as if it was something that he wished he could've done for Vesper - perhaps saving the Canadian woman brought him full circle and that contributed to his being able to let the boyfriend live and leave the necklace behind.

I agree on the "Thank you." - Bond gets some level of redemption here, he couldn't save Vesper but he managed to save this woman.

Bella_doc

Bondtoys wrote:

Am I the only one, who's of the opinion, that the filmmakers missed out an IMMENSE chance by not showing us, how Bond is roasting Yousaf.

...It's the same with Greene: Leaving him alone in the desert instead of finishing him in a fight are some of the elements, why the movie left me untouched.

I wasn't bothered by that at first since I assumed they were saving the big reveal about Quantum for the next film, and so that's why they couldn't show contents of those conversations. I didn't really think of QoS representing the end of a two-parter, though now that I think of it, it makes sense. The only problem with that is that then there's no chance of getting flashbacks of those scenes in B23. That's a shame...

Lexi

TonyDP wrote:

The way I saw it, the whole point of that final scene with Yousaf was to show that Bond had finally grown up and was now able to separate his personal feelings from the requirements of his job. After all the chiding he'd gotten from M about needing to take his ego out of the equation and not making the assignment a personal vendetta, to have him then go and torture or kill Yousaf would have been 180 degrees opposite of where the character of Bond was supposed to be at the end of the film. If he did that he would have been exactly the same as he was at the start of CR and his entire arc over the two films would have been rendered largely meaningless. I guess that's why the also put the gunbarrel at the end as this was our first view of the "real" James Bond.

I totaly agree with you Tony, I thought that whole scene was designed to see Bonds maturity and "taking his ego out of the equation" even if it did take huge self control to do this. Craig's facial expression said it all, a controlled mask, as he looks at Yousaf with pure contempt and disgust, yet being professional enough not to beat the crap out of him, and who would not empathise with him if he did? But, he didn't. Out of all the people Bond kills in the movie, the one we would have totally respected him for, he shows restraint, and that, that shows his character developing and his feelings finally getting under some sort of control. I think M realises this too...

I also love the dropping of the necklace in the snow. He doesn't need that reminder anymore, as it was never really given to her with any great affection. The symbolism it represented to Vesper, was something that Bond was holding onto...yet when he realised it was just a 'gimmick' then he finally could let it go. And perhaps let her go too, although the love he felt for her, would always be with him, always directing him, consciously or not.