Ian Fleming created Bond as a smoker, was it right to change him to a non smoker?

Clare007

Recently Bond has become a non smoker, what I want to find out is do people care that Ian Fleming made a character and people have manipulated his idea into something that could be perceived as no longer being "James Bond"?

7289

The original Bond was a chain smoker, like his creator. The movie Bond has never been a heavy smoker, and by Dalton's time Bond was subjected to the PC Police and smoking came to an end. I think PB got in a few cigars though....

Like his excessive drinking, Bond's smokes are an essential part of the charecter and the films suffer when these traits are lost. Prehaps, a future Bond could chew his fingernails?

darenhat

It's simply silly that the movie industry takes such a strong stance on on-screen smoking, especially with a character that does far worse things (like killing people ). "Hollywood" is one of the most ridiculuous cultures I've ever seen, claiming virtue out of one side of their mouth and spewing immorality out the other. Their primary tenet should be to entertain, and this is all they are equipped to legitimately do. If minds are so impressionable as to adopt smoking based on what they see on the screen, then what is one to think when they see violence, or attempted rape, or drug use, or hear profanity...the list goes on an on. If we can list a movie's detriments under the rating guide such as Rated PG-13 for some violent action and brief sensuality, why can't they just say something to the effect of Rated PG-13 for tobacco use and leave it at that?

I'm not a smoker, and I don't necessarily agree with what many would call 'liberal' values, but the truth is, if there's something that offends me, or I feel my family shouldn't see, then I >gasp< don't go see it! It's called Personal Responsibility and I have no intention of letting the movie industry decide for me what I should or should not be exposed to.

Napoleon Plural

Well, smoking was just one aspect of the Bond persona that didn't make it to screen, others included his pimped up supercharged Bentley with all sorts of modifications, his faddish concerns over his breakfast (boiling an egg to for the perfect time), sea island shirts (still not sure what that is) and his housekeeper May. I am sure there are others.

Traditionally, Fleming fans have long been miffed with Roger Moore's portrayal, often a far cry from the source novels as he concentrates on camp, debonair humour (though not exclusively) and far fetched action.

darenhat

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Well, smoking was just one aspect of the Bond persona that didn't make it to screen, others included his pimped up supercharged Bentley with all sorts of modifications, his faddish concerns over his breakfast (boiling an egg to for the perfect time), sea island shirts (still not sure what that is) and his housekeeper May. I am sure there are others.

Traditionally, Fleming fans have long been miffed with Roger Moore's portrayal, often a far cry from the source novels as he concentrates on camp, debonair humour (though not exclusively) and far fetched action.

"The Bentley's had it's day I'm afraid..."

Barry Nelson

darenhat wrote:

It's simply silly that the movie industry takes such a strong stance on on-screen smoking, especially with a character that does far worse things (like killing people ). "Hollywood" is one of the most ridiculuous cultures I've ever seen, claiming virtue out of one side of their mouth and spewing immorality out the other. Their primary tenet should be to entertain, and this is all they are equipped to legitimately do. If minds are so impressionable as to adopt smoking based on what they see on the screen, then what is one to think when they see violence, or attempted rape, or drug use, or hear profanity...the list goes on an on. If we can list a movie's detriments under the rating guide such as Rated PG-13 for some violent action and brief sensuality, why can't they just say something to the effect of Rated PG-13 for tobacco use and leave it at that?

I'm not a smoker, and I don't necessarily agree with what many would call 'liberal' values, but the truth is, if there's something that offends me, or I feel my family shouldn't see, then I >gasp< don't go see it! It's called Personal Responsibility and I have no intention of letting the movie industry decide for me what I should or should not be exposed to.

What he said! {[]

Sweepy the Cat

The PC gestapo are at it again.
For example, in DAD they had no problem with killing people, drinking and having un-protected sex at a 12A.
But they did have a major problem with Bond smoking a cigar

darenhat

Sweepy the Cat wrote:

For example, in DAD they had no problem with killing people, drinking and having un-protected sex at a 12A.

Hmmm...How do you know it was unprotected, Sweepy!

Sweepy the Cat

Well, in all 22 official Bond films (and the two un-official ones) not a single condom or morning-after pill is seen or even mentioned!

Lazenby880

Sweepy the Cat wrote:

Well, in all 22 official Bond films (and the two un-official ones) not a single condom or morning-after pill is seen or even mentioned!

It would detract from the moment, surely, to have the Bond girl worrying about the pill the morning after!

Loeffelholz

I wish Cinematic Bond were still smoking; it's a manifestation of his 'live for now' ethos. Bond does not expect to see old age; I liked that we got a hint of his excessive drinking in QoS.

Sweepy the Cat

Loeffelholz wrote:

I wish Cinematic Bond were still smoking; it's a manifestation of his 'live for now' ethos. Bond does not expect to see old age; I liked that we got a hint of his excessive drinking in QoS.

He was also a bit of an alky in CR

Napoleon Plural

True, staggering out of the casino completely wasted. Vesper has to save the day by sticking two fingers down his throat.

emtiem

Yes, it's right. Fleming wrote Bond in the 1950's, it's now the 2000's- things have changed. Even if he wanted to smoke he can't even do it indoors in most places anymore.

James Bond is an aspirational character; people do seek to emulate him- just look at the huge amount of posts on this forum about getting the same clothes he wore in whichever film. They do not post asking how to replicate whichever death choke or stabbing manoeuvre Bond demonstrates, so for me the whole 'he kills people' argument is a bit simplistic: everyone knows there's a difference. They want to be James Bond in as far as they want the good bits; oddly enough they'd be quite happy not to go through the various tortures he endures, for example. Smoking is part of the aspirational look and the producers are showing responsibility by ditching it. It's not as if his character hangs off this one act- asking for a higher rating seems a massive overreaction to me; it's hardly worth worrying about.
I'm trying to remember the most recent times we've seen him smoke cigarettes- one or two in Living Daylights... before that, what- OHMSS? Why is it an issue now?

Yes, he still drinks, although more and more this is being portrayed as one of his bad points; we even see him acting like a tit on drink in QoS for the first time.

Barbel

emtiem wrote:

I'm trying to remember the most recent times we've seen him smoke cigarettes- one or two in Living Daylights...

And in LTK, too.

emtiem

Okay, well that's still twenty years ago- I'm still not sure why it's an issue now. I think it'd be right to say that films where Bond is shown smoking are in the minority.

When Fleming wrote him people smoked all the time and it said relatively little about his character except that he liked a nice brand (As with everything else); nowadays people don't and if he did it would mark him out as someone different. It wouldn't be the character Fleming wrote if he did smoke in the 21st century in much the same way that it's not him if he isn't smoking. If there's anyone to take to task it's Cubby and Harry for not showing him smoking as much as he should have in the 60's and 70's.

DrMaybe

Other than a few times at the card table, I don't recall seeing Bond smoke. It's not like he stopped in the middle of an action scene and lit one up, as a normal smoker would probably do.

asio

Daniel Craig clearly has the best physique of all of the actors who have played James Bond, and with all of the running, jumping, fighting, climbing walls and what have you in CR & QOS, I just can't see JB lighting up a fag at the end of it all.
I'm puffed out just looking at the scenes, to add a ciggie after all that exhertion might just nearly kill Bond IMO.

Loeffelholz

emtiem wrote:

Yes, it's right. Fleming wrote Bond in the 1950's, it's now the 2000's- things have changed....Why is it an issue now?

Well...calling it an 'issue' might be overstating it a bit. Someone started a thread, and we're commenting. Of course Bond's (onscreen) smoking days are over, just like nobody has a housekeeper anymore.

I always come back to a quote from Roger Ebert, during his excellent commentary track on Casablanca: "I'm against people smoking---everywhere except the movies." His point, with which I agree, is that smoking is a wonderful narrative device...it gives the audience a chance to watch the character reflect, and think.

QoS might've benefitted from such a pause in the action; a moment of reflection---but then there goes the PG-13 rating. I think smoking guarantees an 'R' these days...Still, the 'six Vespers' scene on the plane admittedly accomplishes the same goal.*

My current project is a novel set in 1941, and my main character (a P.I.) smokes Lucky Srikes. It also works well as a literary device, as it gives characters something to do while exposition is conveyed (hopefully as unobtrusively as possible). In those days, most people smoked.

Myself? I'm 46; never smoked a single cigarette...never would. For real-life people, in the 21st Century, it's just stupid behaviour, IMRO.

* One shudders to imagine when drinking will be deemed too non-politically correct to continue

Napoleon Plural

It's amazing really. People must really have stunk in those days, all the time. I'm glad of the pub ban on smoking in the UK, cos it means you don't have to wash your clothes and shower the smoke out of your hair when you get home.

Then again in the 1950s you had peasoupers - thick dangerous smog that would even drift into theatres and obscure the stage at one point. Then they had the clear air act.

Loeffelholz

Napoleon Plural wrote:

It's amazing really. People must really have stunk in those days, all the time.

Probably so...but then most everyone's nostril hairs were burnt out, so nobody noticed

Sweepy the Cat

Since almost everybody smoked back in the 1940's/50's I doubt anyone would've noticed the smell.

DrMaybe

When the war between the smokers and nonsmokers began in the 70s, it was kind of funny. Each side trying to be more annoying than the other in public. Ultimately, the nonsmoker prigs won because most of their adversaries died off. You can breathe just as bad, if not worse things than cigarette smoke, just by taking a walk in an urban area.

Andy A 007

Excessive drinking and smoking is essential to the literary Bond and its something that I always missed in the films. yeah with Connery he still smoked and he still drinks to this day but not anywhere close to the extent of the literary Bond. It seems to me that Craig's Bond drinks excessiely but IMO Craig would completely inhabit Ian Fleming's James Bond if he were to smoke alot in future films.

DrMaybe

Saw Craig on Jimmy Kimmel last night. He's definitely in good condition(despite his arm in a sling). But he pretty much admitted to binge drinking. Nothing mentioned about smokes.