Count me among those who'd love to see a film of Fleming's TSWLM (as opposed to the 1977 plot- not slagging that movie, which is excellent in it's own write [sic]), but as 7289 says above that was forbidden by the man himself. The accepted story is that feeling unsettled by the bad reception of his experimental novel, Fleming stipulated that Broccoli could use only the title TSWLM but not any details from the plot itself.
Still, it would be a great story to see Craig in since it plays to his strengths. With good screenwriting, the story Bond narrates to Viv could be incorporated into the plot- the comic strip version of TSWLM could be a good model for this. A bit off-topic, but Jim Lawrence's work in expanding and beefing-up Fleming's less promising material for the comic strip adaptations has always struck me as better integrated into the stories than EON's parallel work for the cinema.I'm not talking about his original work, just the Fleming adaptations. A case could be made that Lawrence (in collaboration with the artists, of course) even influenced the movies- check out his adaptation of "The Hildebrand Rarity", for example, and see if it rings a few bells.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
I've been advocating the use of the TSWLM novel for some time, as well. I'd originally advocated it as (at least) a PTS...but it's probably more fitting as an 'Act 1' which sets the stage for the rest of a cracking good spy picture B-)
I'd even leave it in the Adirondacks, making nearby New York City (they've hinted at shooting there) a logical next location in the adventure.
The whole scenario---as 7289, darenhat and Barbel indicate---is right inside Craig's wheelhouse. He can hit it out of the park.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Its funny how TSWLM has been brought up -I mean of course the novel version rather than the entertaining film in which Roger Moore stars. For me this tale reminds me of a Tarantino-esque type movie -what with the gangsters and everything -but with 007 just happening by and rescueing the damsel in distress. I personally would love to see this incorporated in some way into a larger tale. Seeing 007 walk into a situation such as this would be perfect for Craig's 007. Its too brief a story line for a whole film the parts at the motel - but it would definitely work as a section -which undoubtedly be linked to a larger plot.
Excellent idea! {[]
I have said before, I really would like the basic story, Bond rescuing a damsel in distress, of TSWLM told. My all time favorite passage from the Bond books is in this novel. If you don't mind I will share it.
"In the higher ranks of these forces, among the toughest of the professionals, there's a deadly quality of the persons involved which is common to both-to both friends and enemies" The captain's closed fist came softly down on the wooden table top for emphasis and his inward looking eyes burned with a dedicated private anger. "The top gangsters, the top F.B.I. operatives, the top spies and the top counter-spies are coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killers, Miss Michel. Yes, even the friends, as opposed the enemies. They have to be. They wouldn't survive if they weren't. Do you get me?...So the message I want to leave you with, my dear-and I've talked to Washington and I've learned something about Commander Bond's outstanding record in his particular line of business-is this. Keep away from all these men. They are not for you, whether they're called James Bond or Sluggsy Morant. Both these men, and others like them, belong to a private jungle into which you've stayed for a few hours and from which you have escaped. So don't go and get sweet dreams about the one or nightmares from the other. They're just different people from the likes of you-a different species."
The Spy Who Loved Me (Chapter 15) Ian Fleming
Pardon my indulgence, but I love that passage because Fleming, through the Police Captain's description, really describes Bond's personna, coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killer. I love it.
Pardon my indulgence, but I love that passage because Fleming, through the Police Captain's description, really describes Bond's personna, coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killer. I love it.
No pardon need be asked for quoting Fleming. A great selection, Barry.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Pardon my indulgence, but I love that passage because Fleming, through the Police Captain's description, really describes Bond's persona, coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killer. I love it.
No pardon need be asked for quoting Fleming. A great selection, Barry.
Indeed! And this certainly describes the Bond-of-the-moment quite ably, in my considered opinion.
As they look to bring more of the Cinematic Tradition back into the films, I hope they don't relinquish the ground they've gained in this particular area -{
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think it is pretty ironic that Fleming's most questionable novel - TSWLM, features some of the best suited material for adaption into a film. It is even more ironic because Fleming while a brillant novelist, was considered to be an indifferent script writer as judged by his attempts to write a screenplay for the early versions of Thunderball.
Prehaps its because of the rather confined venue for the story and a cast that includes some of Fleming's better charecters; Horror, Slugsy and Viv which contrast nicely with the cool and deadly oo7.
Who knows? Prehaps EON could get a release to film the novel from the Fleming estate, and work the story into "oo7 in New York"
Could the contents of TSWLM be those "undiscovered" fleming writings often mysteriously referred to by those "in the know"?
I really like Craig as Bond, in fact he is my 2nd favourite actor to play the part now after Connery of course, who will never be surpassed.
I think he has done really well in both films, is a great actor and is believable in the role. With his physique I can can believe that he could beat up all those bad guys unlike Moore. I also like the new grittier style of films - lets face it DAD was terrible and tbh embarrassing.
Keep up the good work Daniel, hope you make a lot more Bond films!
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited December 2008
Well, it appears that Craig and Eon have either forgotten that the TSWLM novel exists...or they don't think it's worth filming (even for an Act 1)...or they're convinced that the Fleming Estate won't give them permission:
A statement like "there's nothing left" would also seem to write off the Garden of Death, and any number of small unused bits and pieces
Surely there's someone in the creative team who sees these tremendous opportunities for Classic Bond. If there isn't, there needs to be.
Hey Eon! For crying out loud, send me a PM!
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Sweepy the CatHalifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
Its funny how TSWLM has been brought up -I mean of course the novel version rather than the entertaining film in which Roger Moore stars. For me this tale reminds me of a Tarantino-esque type movie -what with the gangsters and everything -but with 007 just happening by and rescueing the damsel in distress. I personally would love to see this incorporated in some way into a larger tale. Seeing 007 walk into a situation such as this would be perfect for Craig's 007. Its too brief a story line for a whole film the parts at the motel - but it would definitely work as a section -which undoubtedly be linked to a larger plot.
If they can make a movie of The Living Daylights, then The Spy Who Loved Me is certainly a possibility...and it does fit in well with the timbre of Craig's films.
They aren't allowed to use the story anyway. Fleming hated the book so much that he made EON sign a contract so that they could use the name and nothing more.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited December 2008
Well...with Fleming gone 44 years now, surely the Estate can be negotiated with on this issue. I would hope there exists enough good faith to convince them that Eon would do the material justice.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I realize we are a little off topic, but continuing with the flow of the conversation, no way EON can make TSWLM as Fleming wrote it. I always felt the basic, Bond happening upon a damsel in distress and rescuing her storyline from TSWLM could be played out in a PTS. I think it could be done with many of the elements from TSWLM, desolate location, attractive victim, couple bad dudes, Bond sensing something wrong and acting on his suspicions, action scene with a neat gunfight, victim showing Bond her appreciation for being rescued, the police caption narrative as Bond drives off and then the gun barrel and James Bond theme. Works for me.
Absolutely, Barry! And if so used I'm sure EON would be within their agreement not to film the novel, stealing bits from wherever
(even the reviled TSWLM :v ) is accepted practice, seemingly.
Bond drives off and then the gun barrel and James Bond theme. Works for me.
NOOOOO! The gunbarrel must come at THE START from now on. No more experimenting and tinkering. Let's get continuity back.
The idea of TSWLM as PTS does appeal, however. But after the gunbarrel and before the credits.
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
Personally I just want to see that idea explored in a new film -its using the right source material but without the experimental stuff that sadly Fleming was ashamed of. Moving on from the motel would be easy and it could set up a new mission -the possibilities are endless -and I'm sure fans would appreciate it.
With exception of Dalton, Craig is the only Bond actor to really enjoy entrenching himself in experimental entertainment. If Eon wanted to make a little extra pocket change, they could make a sister film to their next Bond action piece. It would take on attributes of TSWLM novel without being so much a duplicate as it rather be a nod to. It could be about Moneypenny's origin or some other female. It could even be about the Corinne/Yusaf relationship as a parallel to the QOS storyline with ties to Bond 23. TSWLM book is about a Canadian after all, and what was Corinne?
My only problem with Craig is that, to my eyes he does not look like Bond, which is more my problem than his.
I'm glad you could admit that its more your problem than Craig's Barry;) Because to me, Craig looks (and acts) more like Bond than any of his predecessors. Craig has come so much closer, in his portrayal and of the character as well as his looks (minus the Blonde hair haha) to Ian Fleming's creation-the REAL James Bond- than even Connery or Dalton. For me, Daniel Craig IS James Bond, and I'm sure he always will be. And I think that there is not even a glimmer of a chance that Craig ultimately won't be, or hasn't already been, completely accepted as the Bond for a new generation...as well as older generations who appreciate the awesomeness that is Craig's Bond.
I think that once "awesomeness" enters the conversation, you pretty much know everything else is subjectivity to the Nth degree. Even Loeffs concedes that Craig dosn't "look" like Fleming's Bond. )
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Even Loeffs concedes that Craig dosn't "look" like Fleming's Bond. )
Not like Fleming's Bond, strictly speaking, no---he's like Moore in that regard {:)
But since he is Cinematic Bond, that's what Cinematic Bond looks like -{
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
While I did mention this somewhere in another thread, I think it bears a second mention.
While looking through a "Cigar Afficianado" magazine, I found a profile of the subject of this referendum. I was delighted to read that when Craig is in need of guidance on the Bond charecter he refers to the novels!
Craig specifically mentioned the "Moonraker" card game with Drax. He noted both Bond's drinking and taking Benzedrine before the showdown. If they can work some of those traits into the films it would be fantastic.
I am relieved that DC knows where to look, and is intrigued enough by the charecter of Bond to try and stay faithful to it - PC considerations aside.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited December 2008
That gives a degree of comfort...hopefully he will realize that there are precious nuggets of story, specific incidents/events, and character material ripe for the picking.
One can hope! :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
Still, it would be a great story to see Craig in since it plays to his strengths. With good screenwriting, the story Bond narrates to Viv could be incorporated into the plot- the comic strip version of TSWLM could be a good model for this. A bit off-topic, but Jim Lawrence's work in expanding and beefing-up Fleming's less promising material for the comic strip adaptations has always struck me as better integrated into the stories than EON's parallel work for the cinema.I'm not talking about his original work, just the Fleming adaptations. A case could be made that Lawrence (in collaboration with the artists, of course) even influenced the movies- check out his adaptation of "The Hildebrand Rarity", for example, and see if it rings a few bells.
I'd even leave it in the Adirondacks, making nearby New York City (they've hinted at shooting there) a logical next location in the adventure.
The whole scenario---as 7289, darenhat and Barbel indicate---is right inside Craig's wheelhouse. He can hit it out of the park.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I have said before, I really would like the basic story, Bond rescuing a damsel in distress, of TSWLM told. My all time favorite passage from the Bond books is in this novel. If you don't mind I will share it.
"In the higher ranks of these forces, among the toughest of the professionals, there's a deadly quality of the persons involved which is common to both-to both friends and enemies" The captain's closed fist came softly down on the wooden table top for emphasis and his inward looking eyes burned with a dedicated private anger. "The top gangsters, the top F.B.I. operatives, the top spies and the top counter-spies are coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killers, Miss Michel. Yes, even the friends, as opposed the enemies. They have to be. They wouldn't survive if they weren't. Do you get me?...So the message I want to leave you with, my dear-and I've talked to Washington and I've learned something about Commander Bond's outstanding record in his particular line of business-is this. Keep away from all these men. They are not for you, whether they're called James Bond or Sluggsy Morant. Both these men, and others like them, belong to a private jungle into which you've stayed for a few hours and from which you have escaped. So don't go and get sweet dreams about the one or nightmares from the other. They're just different people from the likes of you-a different species."
The Spy Who Loved Me (Chapter 15) Ian Fleming
Pardon my indulgence, but I love that passage because Fleming, through the Police Captain's description, really describes Bond's personna, coldhearted, coldblooded, ruthless, tough killer. I love it.
No pardon need be asked for quoting Fleming. A great selection, Barry.
Indeed! And this certainly describes the Bond-of-the-moment quite ably, in my considered opinion.
As they look to bring more of the Cinematic Tradition back into the films, I hope they don't relinquish the ground they've gained in this particular area -{
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Prehaps its because of the rather confined venue for the story and a cast that includes some of Fleming's better charecters; Horror, Slugsy and Viv which contrast nicely with the cool and deadly oo7.
Who knows? Prehaps EON could get a release to film the novel from the Fleming estate, and work the story into "oo7 in New York"
Could the contents of TSWLM be those "undiscovered" fleming writings often mysteriously referred to by those "in the know"?
Prehaps there is cause for optimism?
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I've always thought TSWLM the least ham-fisted of Fleming's takes on US gangsters, love to see it kick off a modern Bond film as Loeff suggests.
I think he has done really well in both films, is a great actor and is believable in the role. With his physique I can can believe that he could beat up all those bad guys unlike Moore. I also like the new grittier style of films - lets face it DAD was terrible and tbh embarrassing.
Keep up the good work Daniel, hope you make a lot more Bond films!
http://commanderbond.net/article/5881
A statement like "there's nothing left" would also seem to write off the Garden of Death, and any number of small unused bits and pieces
Surely there's someone in the creative team who sees these tremendous opportunities for Classic Bond. If there isn't, there needs to be.
Hey Eon! For crying out loud, send me a PM!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
They aren't allowed to use the story anyway. Fleming hated the book so much that he made EON sign a contract so that they could use the name and nothing more.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
(even the reviled TSWLM :v ) is accepted practice, seemingly.
NOOOOO! The gunbarrel must come at THE START from now on. No more experimenting and tinkering. Let's get continuity back.
The idea of TSWLM as PTS does appeal, however. But after the gunbarrel and before the credits.
I think that once "awesomeness" enters the conversation, you pretty much know everything else is subjectivity to the Nth degree. Even Loeffs concedes that Craig dosn't "look" like Fleming's Bond.
Not like Fleming's Bond, strictly speaking, no---he's like Moore in that regard {:)
But since he is Cinematic Bond, that's what Cinematic Bond looks like -{
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
While looking through a "Cigar Afficianado" magazine, I found a profile of the subject of this referendum. I was delighted to read that when Craig is in need of guidance on the Bond charecter he refers to the novels!
Craig specifically mentioned the "Moonraker" card game with Drax. He noted both Bond's drinking and taking Benzedrine before the showdown. If they can work some of those traits into the films it would be fantastic.
I am relieved that DC knows where to look, and is intrigued enough by the charecter of Bond to try and stay faithful to it - PC considerations aside.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
One can hope! :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM