Walther P99 trigger guard (flat or concave)?

Danjaq

Something I've noticed on some of the P99s that Bond has used from TND to CR. On some of the guns, the front of the trigger guard was concave (curved out) like on a GLOCK pistol. This version can be seen on the P99 in TND and on Daniel Craig's P99 as he shoots the floatation devices in the house in Venice:






In other versions of the gun, the trigger guard had a flat front like on the HK USP. This version of the P99 can be seen on Pierce Brosnan's P99 in TWINE:



Were these two P99s different versions made by Walther? Or was the gun with the concave trigger guard a Generation 1 model and the gun with the flat trigger guard a Generation 2 model?

thesecretagent

I used two Walther p99 pistols two years ago while visiting a SWAT team leader friend of mine in New Jersey. Both weapons were in their claim tub - a shed-load of conviscated guns that they use to train with, hand out to guests like me on the range etc
Both guns were different at the front of the trigger guard, but both had different safety mechanisms on the other side of the frame as well. Apparently one was made by Walther in Germany, and the other was made in the states under licence by Smith & Wesson - unfortunately, I can't recall which was which.
It is worth noting though, that compared to a selection of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs, the two Walther p99s were disapointing to use and over three days shooting both suffered a fair amount of stoppages.
As a Bond fan (and former Walther PPK owner before the British pistol ban) I was really dissapointed and chose a Glock for the competition shoot.

walther p99

thesecretagent wrote:

I used two Walther p99 pistols two years ago while visiting a SWAT team leader friend of mine in New Jersey. Both weapons were in their claim tub - a shed-load of conviscated guns that they use to train with, hand out to guests like me on the range etc
Both guns were different at the front of the trigger guard, but both had different safety mechanisms on the other side of the frame as well. Apparently one was made by Walther in Germany, and the other was made in the states under licence by Smith & Wesson - unfortunately, I can't recall which was which.
It is worth noting though, that compared to a selection of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs, the two Walther p99s were disapointing to use and over three days shooting both suffered a fair amount of stoppages.
As a Bond fan (and former Walther PPK owner before the British pistol ban) I was really dissapointed and chose a Glock for the competition shoot.

thats interesting to hear i always thought the P99 was highly reliable and was just as good as a SIG or HK.

7289

Try this page for P99 information on the various versions of the P99.

http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/

thesecretagent

walther p99 wrote:

thesecretagent wrote:

I used two Walther p99 pistols two years ago while visiting a SWAT team leader friend of mine in New Jersey. Both weapons were in their claim tub - a shed-load of conviscated guns that they use to train with, hand out to guests like me on the range etc
Both guns were different at the front of the trigger guard, but both had different safety mechanisms on the other side of the frame as well. Apparently one was made by Walther in Germany, and the other was made in the states under licence by Smith & Wesson - unfortunately, I can't recall which was which.
It is worth noting though, that compared to a selection of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs, the two Walther p99s were disapointing to use and over three days shooting both suffered a fair amount of stoppages.
As a Bond fan (and former Walther PPK owner before the British pistol ban) I was really dissapointed and chose a Glock for the competition shoot.

thats interesting to hear i always thought the P99 was highly reliable and was just as good as a SIG or HK.

Don't get me wrong, the Walther P99s that I used were great to use and if I were in a position to use/own one (which as Bond's gun I probably would!)I would try fettling the ammunition to suit. I was merely a guest and using the guns and ammunition supplied. I'm no ammunition expert, but I used to own a Browning HP35 and it jammed terribly using Howitzer 9mm rounds, but after switching to Winchester I never had another stoppage with at least 2000 rds more useage.
Another problem I encountered was when doing fast and enthusiastic reloads I twice caught the skin on my gun-hand with the base of the maqazine as I slammed it home. Hurt like hell and slowed me down. I haven't got shovels for hands, but felt the grip was a little short.
When I went over to see my friend I hadn't shot a pistol for six years and had never liked the look of Glocks - I like asthetics and thought they looked like toys compared to my old Browning - but how wrong I was. They are so easy to use, have a nice lack of furniture on the frame like safeties, de-cocking levers ets, nice sights - the perfect combat pistol - probably backed up by the amount of law enforcement agencies using them around the world. A weapon's litmus test is its adoption to service. I may be wrong (and my god there's a wealth of knowledge on this site who will tell me) but I'm not aware of any military or police agency using the P99 as its standard weapon.

walther p99

thesecretagent wrote:

walther p99 wrote:

thesecretagent wrote:

I used two Walther p99 pistols two years ago while visiting a SWAT team leader friend of mine in New Jersey. Both weapons were in their claim tub - a shed-load of conviscated guns that they use to train with, hand out to guests like me on the range etc
Both guns were different at the front of the trigger guard, but both had different safety mechanisms on the other side of the frame as well. Apparently one was made by Walther in Germany, and the other was made in the states under licence by Smith & Wesson - unfortunately, I can't recall which was which.
It is worth noting though, that compared to a selection of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs, the two Walther p99s were disapointing to use and over three days shooting both suffered a fair amount of stoppages.
As a Bond fan (and former Walther PPK owner before the British pistol ban) I was really dissapointed and chose a Glock for the competition shoot.

thats interesting to hear i always thought the P99 was highly reliable and was just as good as a SIG or HK.

Don't get me wrong, the Walther P99s that I used were great to use and if I were in a position to use/own one (which as Bond's gun I probably would!)I would try fettling the ammunition to suit. I was merely a guest and using the guns and ammunition supplied. I'm no ammunition expert, but I used to own a Browning HP35 and it jammed terribly using Howitzer 9mm rounds, but after switching to Winchester I never had another stoppage with at least 2000 rds more useage.
Another problem I encountered was when doing fast and enthusiastic reloads I twice caught the skin on my gun-hand with the base of the maqazine as I slammed it home. Hurt like hell and slowed me down. I haven't got shovels for hands, but felt the grip was a little short.
When I went over to see my friend I hadn't shot a pistol for six years and had never liked the look of Glocks - I like asthetics and thought they looked like toys compared to my old Browning - but how wrong I was. They are so easy to use, have a nice lack of furniture on the frame like safeties, de-cocking levers ets, nice sights - the perfect combat pistol - probably backed up by the amount of law enforcement agencies using them around the world. A weapon's litmus test is its adoption to service. I may be wrong (and my god there's a wealth of knowledge on this site who will tell me) but I'm not aware of any military or police agency using the P99 as its standard weapon.

excellent point, im sure the ammo used has something to do with it. how was the P99 comapared to the PPK? even though its kind of hard to compare the two.

thesecretagent

As different as night and day. In effect, the P99 whilst shooting feels like a Glock or Sig as you fire. The PPK I used to own was an original Walther 7.65mm built in the late seventies/early eighties. It was classic Moore's/Dalton's Bond spec and shot like nothing else. I loved it's short recoil, much less than 9mm. And it was so light and pointable. But more than modern guns, it felt soild and "real". It stripped easy with no little bits and pieces and never jammed once.
I shot for five years before the British pistol ban, using many club guns and sharing alike, and even though range was short (25m was good), and the sights were small, and compared to 9mm and larger calibres it was short on power - it remains my favourite gun.
For practical competitions I always used my Browning or CZ, but afterwards when it was just a bit of mindless fun - I always picked up the PPK.
Maybe it was a Bond thing.

Herr Michael

I've owned at one time a total of four P99's and never had a stoppage with any.

That's interesting to hear, as no one I know that owns one has never had a problem either.

The S&W licensed manufactured SW99 might be a different story.

At any rate, all Walther Germany produced P99's until the 2nd generation had the finger hook on the front of the trigger guard.

The 2nd generation of P99 is just butt-ugly, but that's just my opinion.

thesecretagent

Herr Michael wrote:

I've owned at one time a total of four P99's and never had a stoppage with any.

That's interesting to hear, as no one I know that owns one has never had a problem either.

The S&W licensed manufactured SW99 might be a different story.

At any rate, all Walther Germany produced P99's until the 2nd generation had the finger hook on the front of the trigger guard.

The 2nd generation of P99 is just butt-ugly, but that's just my opinion.

Your experience with the P99 obviously far outweighs mine. And I'm genuinely pleased to hear my experience may have been isolated. Tell me, did you ever catch your hand while changing clips? I did, and felt the grip was a little short.

Danjaq

7289 wrote:

Try this page for P99 information on the various versions of the P99.

http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/

Thanks. I contacted Ken Lunde, the webmaster of that site, and he clarified that the P99 from TND with the curved trigger guard is of an early P99 with the so-called split-trigger: http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/VII/4.html

And for the first style of P99, with the proprietary accessory rail and hooked trigger guard, the vast majority used the flat type of trigger guard circa TWINE. In 2004, the P99 trigger guard became round as the design changed to its current incarnation.

Mark Hazard

thesecretagent wrote:

A weapon's litmus test is its adoption to service. I may be wrong (and my god there's a wealth of knowledge on this site who will tell me) but I'm not aware of any military or police agency using the P99 as its standard weapon.

I thought that a number of Police forces world-wide used the P99 - maybe I'm wrong. But I do recall that there were at least two British forces that use(d) the P99, I think one of them was Nottinghamshire.

walther p99

So how many different versions of the P99 has Bond used?

Kilroy6644

Mark Hazard wrote:

thesecretagent wrote:

A weapon's litmus test is its adoption to service. I may be wrong (and my god there's a wealth of knowledge on this site who will tell me) but I'm not aware of any military or police agency using the P99 as its standard weapon.

I thought that a number of Police forces world-wide used the P99 - maybe I'm wrong.

I can't be sure about worldwide, but I've been informed that the police of Nordrhein-Westfalen replaced their P6s with P99s (the DAO version), and Rheinland-Pfalz is replacing their P5s with the P99 QA.

Danjaq

walther p99 wrote:

So how many different versions of the P99 has Bond used?

There was the early-style P99 in TND which had the split trigger and the concave trigger guard (this version was also seen in the Venice scenes in CR).

And there was the version with the flat trigger guard and accessory rail in TWINE.

As for DAD, I didn't notice any close-ups of the P99 to tell which version it is. I'll have to watch closely the next time I watch DAD.

walther p99

Danjaq wrote:

walther p99 wrote:

So how many different versions of the P99 has Bond used?

There was the early-style P99 in TND which had the split trigger and the concave trigger guard (this version was also seen in the Venice scenes in CR).

And there was the version with the flat trigger guard and accessory rail in TWINE.

As for DAD, I didn't notice any close-ups of the P99 to tell which version it is. I'll have to watch closely the next time I watch DAD.

great! thanks for clearing that up, so Craig uses the early model P99?

Asp9mm

Craig uses the 2004 P99 with flat triggerguard. The blank firing versions (Umarex PAK) used in the majority of the scenes have the curved triggerguard. The Umarex PAK blank firing versions have remained unchanged since they were first manufactured, so they all have the curved triggerguard and can be seen in most of the Bonds from TND oneward. The very early Walther P99's with split trigger and curved guard were only used in TND, with the flat triggerguards being used from TWINE onwards. Any curved triggerguards you see from then on, are PAK's being used. Confusing? Yeah.

Monza860

Do you know which trigger system he uses?

Kilroy6644

I believe it's what Walther now calls the "AS" trigger.

Monza860

As far as I've read AS, which stands for Anti-Stress, is the new style P99.

Kilroy6644

Monza860 wrote:

As far as I've read AS, which stands for Anti-Stress, is the new style P99.

The trigger is the same. It's just that when Walther redesigned the gun in 2004, they renamed it as well. What is now called the P99 AS was just the standard P99 previously.

Herr Michael

thesecretagent wrote:

Herr Michael wrote:

I've owned at one time a total of four P99's and never had a stoppage with any.

That's interesting to hear, as no one I know that owns one has never had a problem either.

The S&W licensed manufactured SW99 might be a different story.

At any rate, all Walther Germany produced P99's until the 2nd generation had the finger hook on the front of the trigger guard.

The 2nd generation of P99 is just butt-ugly, but that's just my opinion.

Your experience with the P99 obviously far outweighs mine. And I'm genuinely pleased to hear my experience may have been isolated. Tell me, did you ever catch your hand while changing clips? I did, and felt the grip was a little short.

If you mean magazines, no I have never caught any part of my anatomy on the P99. The grip fits my hand like it was made for me.

As a note, my current P99 does not have the finger hook on the trigger guard. My previous three including the MI6 (yes MI6) did.

This was just before the redesign of the frame for the 2nd variation P99. It should rightly be called the 3rd variation as the split trigger was dropped when they eliminated the finger hook and the roll marks in favour of the laser engraving. The ramp inside of the trigger guard was also moved back.

Dieter Marschall in his book, "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99 makes no distinction between these variations, but the expanded book was published in 1999 before the 2nd variation was produced with the above mentioned changes.

The current P99 (the butt ugly model) is really the 3rd variation.

These are from my website (that I haven't updated in years) The Unofficial Walther Homepage. You can see a photo of my first P99 there as well. SN was #237 on that one. One of the first to be imported to the States.

The P99 below is so rare now, it commands in excess of $7000 USD. I bought it for $1K in '96 or '97. Can't remember now. I sold it for $2K in 2000.