What's wrong with TMWTGG?
Mister White
The NetherlandsPosts: 814MI6 Agent
I always felt that there was something fundamentally 'wrong' with The Man With The Golden Gun.
One of the main attractions of James Bond is that you get to identify with James Bond. Basically, you want to be James Bond. People here sometimes can even take that to extremes, and I am no exception.
But when viewing TMWTGG I don't want to be Bond. I find him rude, rash and constantly chasing after his own tail.
When I watch TMWTGG I want to be Scaramanga. He's suave, in control and polite. Plus he get's all the good stuff, the flying car and that wonderfull gun...
Anybody else have thoughts on this matter?
One of the main attractions of James Bond is that you get to identify with James Bond. Basically, you want to be James Bond. People here sometimes can even take that to extremes, and I am no exception.
But when viewing TMWTGG I don't want to be Bond. I find him rude, rash and constantly chasing after his own tail.
When I watch TMWTGG I want to be Scaramanga. He's suave, in control and polite. Plus he get's all the good stuff, the flying car and that wonderfull gun...
Anybody else have thoughts on this matter?
"Christ, I miss the Cold War."
Comments
Cranky Oh So Cranky!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Your right - I never really thought about it until now. I hardly ever watch it, but M, Q, Moneypenny, Bond - they're all so snappy and teasy. And could you really see JW Pepper holidaying in Thailand? That kind of bloke takes his holidays at home and shoots wild hogs or something like that! Bond's karate suit looks like a pair of pygamas I had as a kid, and those two karate schoolgirls look bloody ridiculous as well. The guy he fights in the dojo is also the world's worst fighter (apart from Moore himself that is.)
http://apbateman.com
It had a lot going for it:
Great idea - a 'duel of titans' between Bond and the world's top assassin.
Fantastic actor in Christopher Lee for the villian.
Wonderful locations.
So what could go wrong. The same thing that went wrong with a lot of the movies during RMs tenure - going for the laugh at the expense of going for the thrill.
Scaramanga was more urbane and charming than Bond. I read somewhere that CL wanted to play it more villianous but was not allowed.
Nic Nac was a novel sidekick (if not a real henchman) but the end fight was embarassing. Like Bond being the school bully picking on a first year.
Goodnight being a dumb blonde rather than a compotent assistance. She represented a bigger threat to Bond's safety than Scaramanga ever did.
The return of J W Pepper. He just about worked in Louisiana but not in Thailland.
And the end fight between Bond and Scaramanga. It was about as interesting as watching a car rust. Thinking back to Bond Vs. Grant, Bond Vs, Oddjob where was that level of excitement.
I couldn't agree more.
?:) what???
After LALD (which has been written for RM) noone seriously encountered SC to return back to the role.
Do you have any source for what you are wri(gh)ting here?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I tend to agree with the thoughts here...and i loved Hardyboy's pics....all those terrible scottish hairdo's..
TMTGG get's on my third nipple, and I never know why...
is it the dumbing down of the leading lady (Maud was so much more sensual and sophist in Octopussy),
the dumbing down of the bond girl (difficult when she's already an established dumb blonde),
the camping up of the villian (there are some terrible lines for CL to deliver...)
or the shortening down of the henchman (I often wonder if n-n was chosen to make that beer bottle look like a wine bottle...)
Indeed, it isn't just the wine bottles that look cheap....some of the costumes look Oxfam (CL's blue tracksuit?), and the cars sometimes look like they've been pushed down a hill without starting them up...
which brings me to the reason the film failed...
1974 was the the first year of the oilshock, that had begun in October 1973, when the Oil producers declared an embargo and sent the price soaring, stock markets crashing, and of course, meant no one could afford a haircut (sic) let alone a gallon of gas..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis
Given the film had already booked lavish destinations (Phuket et al), amazing car stunts, and of course, a golden gun (which became three times as expensive as gold moved from $50 per ounce to $150po
They wern't the only one's behaving cranky, and pushing their cars downhill rather than waste gas starting them up....remember, someone always has to push them up the other side of the hill....that's guaranteed to make you cranky...:o
now, imagine making Bond 23 amidst the Second Great Depression....
sobering...
I don't say, that TMWTGG is a masterpiece and TSWLM is a much better movie imho.
My theory is, that they tried to capture a bit more of Moore's odd humor which has been always difficult in the RM era (it went even worse in the John Glen decade sans FYEO).
The only scenes, where the movie looks cheap are in the boxing ring and the scenes, where the aerocar model is clearly visible.
As Thailand is today a pretty affordable destination, it has been pretty exotic in the 1973s.
I agree, that Britts role was terrible (but I will always admire her looks (and Peter Sellers and Rod Steward could not have been wrong), I AM into blondes
And the scenes with Andrea after the shower had not so much to do with Sean, they tried to get Bond a bit more edgy besides all the comedy.
But for the beautiful locations, I will always have a weak spot for that movie.
And I don't worry so much for 23 because of the current crisis, it is more QoS, which makes me worry, if the Bond movies are heading in the correct direction.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
TMWTGG has a fine cast and a promising plot--the world's deadliest assassin versus James Bond--but it doesn't use it's source material well.TMWTGG could've been turned into an exceptional thriller:a suspenseful piece along the lines of From Russia With Love or The Most Dangerous Game, but it fails to deliver.What a shame,because this had so much potential.
I would go further and say there seemed to be a real uncertainty among the filmmakers as to where they wanted the series to go. On one hand, you had a forced attempt to make Moore come off as tougher, so you have extremely clumsy scenes of him slapping women and spewing venom at Scaramanga. On the other hand, you had some of the most absurd attempts at slapstick the series has ever seen -- Pepper's reappearance halfway around the globe, M's dyspepsia at anyone and anything, sumo wrestlers getting their cheeks squeezed, etc etc. Confusion reigns.
On top of all this, you have an odd time/place setting. To me, Bangkok in 1974 looked far less modern than, say, Istanbul in 1963. Films from the 1970s often look dated even if they were filmed in the most modern of locales, so TMWTGG fares even worse in that regard. Plus, the energy crisis plot really was shoehorned in there. These attempts to be "topical" can often backfire.
I lost all respect for Bond when he threw that kid into the water. In my opinion he still owes him 20.000 Baht.X-(
Also, at the end, how did 'M' manage to locate them by phone?
It also features Rog's best fight sequence in his stint, right up there with the classics in the likes of OHMSS, FRWL and DAF... Maud Adam's character is subtle, vunerable and very understated and she looks far more gorgeous and sublime than she does in OCTOPUSSY, it has a wonderful score by John Barry, a dash of very impressive Kung Fu which would give the legendary Bruce Lee and run for his money and that classic car stunt.
Plus the wonderful Clifton James makes a very amusing return.
"Braise that pedal, boy!" -{
"He would have given him wings, Mr. Kidd"
That's the good thing about this site, lots of bond fans have lots of different opinions.
I'll certainly give you that. As I mentioned already, Scaramanga is a great and very likeable character. It's just that RM (in this movie at least) isn't.
Wich one would this be? The bit where he is rescued by two schoolgirls?
This is probably due to the fact that she is younger here...
In my opinion the weakest of Barry's scores. I believe this has to do with the fact that he only had two weeks to write and record it.
It would more likely give the legendary Bruce Lee a lauging fit...
Wich is so horribly set up that you know the entire scene around it was written for it, plus it's accompanied by a childish sound effect.
That last comment has really convinced me that you are taking the piss... :v
I agree with a new defunct thread by Hardyboy that everyone is cranky in this film with each other. That said, it's olde worlde charm compared to the latest, QoS.
This is an interesting film, it is real quirky and funny at times too (Q and his pal analysing the bullet like they're savouring a vintage wine is very good). But the lack of any expansive action scenes in the first hour lend it a cheap feel; when Bond goes to Beirut you know it's just a Pinewood set. It starts to feel like a corny hour-long episode of The Saint. Of course, we later find out that Scaramanga never sent Bond the bullet, so why should Bond be in any danger or get involved in exciting chases? So he doesn't for the first part of the movie. The danger is implied, or fake.
As with QoS, there's a problem with exposition here, with facts conveyed in an artless fashion. We have two plots; we don't know who Scaramanga is you we have to be introduced to him. And we don't know (or care much) about the Solex energy device so that has to be explained at length too.
Golden Gun is a kids' movie, so the way they do this is to have someone offload some useful information, only for the recipient to react with contempt and irritation and disgust, like they regard it as some boring lecture. This starts right from the outset, with M basically telling two helpful fellows to p1ss off out of his office, in so many words. Everyone reacts like this to each other from then on.
There isn't any charm to the film even in Bond's liaisons, as Andrea just offers herself so Bond will kill her boss (nice!) and Moore's delivery is really rather awful. Goodnight folds easily and then is humiliated.
And the odd, subliminally racist bit with a bikinid Goodnight fondled by the black guy at the end.
Oh, 'science was never my strong suite' as Scara says, like Blofeld in DAF. Him showing around his place and knowing nothing about the Solex, so Bond has to explain it to him, doesn't quite command authority. It's like, hey, come back to my place gal! Er, it's a showhome, I don't actually live here, nice though isn't it? 8-)
Roger Moore 1927-2017
James Bond- Licence To Kill
it's ****, that's what's wrong with it!
Please elaborate...
*Yes, NP, I still like the bitch-slap. :v
Roger Moore 1927-2017
it had such potential. Scaramanga is one of, if not the best villians. Nik Nak, a classic example of a great bond stereotype character.
here's some of the problems I had with it.
1.) I knew what the ending was going ot be in the opening scene. That's never happened to me before. as soon as scaramanga shoots off Bond's fingers. I knew he would eventually end up hiding in the statue's place
2.) Of all the characters to bring back, they brought back J.W. Pepper. And what in the hello is he doing in thailand? he seems like the stereotypical good ol boy, Thailand seems like the last place he'd vacation. (outside of his wife draggin him off somehwere)
3.) They ruined one of the best car stunt scenes ever with a f*cking slide whistle.
4.) Mary Goodnight - the ditsiest MI6 agent ever. she serves no other purpose than a good looking woman to look at. It's completely improbable that she would an SIS employee. Even if she was, she'd never be on a mission. I mean, she blows up the island by accidentally knocking a black guy into a pool of coolant.
I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass.
5.) it's the height of the series when it comes to slapstick (or it would seem). Bond defeats nik nak by putting him in a suitcase. jw pepper, goodnight, all of it more ridiculously improbable than the next.
6.) Some of the most gleaming plot holes of the series. For instance, when bond is kidnapped by Hai Fat and forced to fight the henchmen. He just kicks the guy in the head, jumps out the window and Hip, along with the TWO HIGHEST TRAINED NEICES IN MARTIAL ARTS HISTORY, just happen to be driving by.
7.) swallowing a golden bullet. let me say that again. SWALLOWING A GOLDEN BULLET.
I've lost my charm. yes...yes you have.
Now, i'm sure you could argue that he guessed who had kidnapped Bond and went looking for him, but come on.
there's more but i can't remember. Anyway, that being said. These movies are meant to temporarily suspend reality. I still love it, with all it's quirky goodness.
Except that f*cking slide whistle.
CLASSIC!!!
-Mr Arlington Beech
SIG WORTHY JOKE.
Exactly!!
"I may be small, but I never forget!!"