Sex

thesecretagent

I know Bond fell in love with Vesper in Casino Royale, and I know we watched his relationship grow throughout the film - and I know he bagged the MI6 girl in Bolivia (only seen QOS once - can't remember her name)but I'm worried the poor chap's sex life is going to be drier than one of his martinis.
I liked the way Connery and Moore got the girls - Brosnan even - but let's face it - Craig's not doing too well so far.
Anyone else feel the same?

Alex

Uh, not really. I guess Brosnan averaged two sexual relationships per film. Between Solange and Vesper in CR alone I think Bond's doing just fine in the loving department.

Loeffelholz

I actually expect (Formerly) Poor Danny^TM to make up for lost time in the next couple of Bond films

jetsetwilly

Craig's Bond slept with only one girl in QoS...as did Connery's Bond in DAF, actually. I'm disappointed that he didn't throw it up Camille, yes, but the fact that he slept with Agent Fields roughly twenty minutes after he met her makes me think that this 007 has just an active libido as his predecessors. Put it a different way: Bond sleeps with four women in AVTAK - Kimberley Jones, May Day, Pola Ivanova and Stacey Sutton. Do those four notches on the bedpost mean that is somehow a better film?

Sweepy the Cat

I have also have noticed that Bond's sex-life is less, ahem, exciting as it was.

In the past two Bond films he has slept with just three women.

He is almost as bad as Dalton!

Willie Garvin

Apparently Daniel Craig's 007 made love to Eve Green's Vesper either before or after a swimming scene which for some reason did not appear in either the theatrical version of CR or the 2 DVD releases.Maybe Sony/Columbia/Eon are planning to include it in a 3rd deluxe CR DVD set?

Loeffelholz

Let's be fair: QoS wasn't a typical Bond film, in any sense. He was too [expletive deleted] busy to tomcat around. It was an exception, in more ways than one.

I've said elsewhere, ad nauseam by now, that I fully expect Bond to be more 'traditional' next time round, and this aspect of that ought to be in the forefront.

If I were writing the script (please God!), I'd have Bond sleep with a minimum of four women in #23...including Moneypenny :v

jetsetwilly

Quality, not quantity wins for me. To return to my AVTAK example; do four Bond girls equal, say, Vesper? Is Live and Let Die a better Bond film because Bond beds Miss Caruso, Rosie, and Solitaire, as opposed to The Spy Who Loved Me, where 007 sleeps only with Log Cabin Girl and Anya? Personally I'd rather have one Tracy, Contessa di Vicenzo than a dozen Manuela's making up the numbers.

Loeffelholz

I think numbers ought to be one of the points made in #23. Bond is coping with his past with numbers of one night stands, thereby putting some sort of distance* between him and Vesper.

* It seems very Bond-like, IMO, for him do do such a thing...

jetsetwilly

That sounds very much like the opening chapters of the YOLT novel, when Bond is trying to get over Tracy; which would be a great concept if QoS hadn't been made in the meantime. Quantum closes off "the Vesper thing" with its arc and eventually, its final scenes. Beyond that, yes, an implication that Bond is afraid of getting close for fear of betrayal is warranted (and let's face it, has been implied in the series ever since Miss Taro) but the dramatic arc of 007 literally screwing Vesper out of his psyche has been lost. Because, I think the viewer is forced to ask; if he was that keen to **** the memory away, why did he not attempt to jump on top of the gorgeous Olga Kurylenko?

Loeffelholz

jetsetwilly wrote:

...the dramatic arc of 007 literally screwing Vesper out of his psyche has been lost. Because, I think the viewer is forced to ask; if he was that keen to **** the memory away, why did he not attempt to jump on top of the gorgeous Olga Kurylenko?

IMO it's about compartmentalization. As I said above, Bond was too busy in QoS...and it didn't feel right with Camille, because of the emotional baggage both leads are so obviously carrying in that particular narrative. A hook-up would have had a distinctly inauthentic feel to it. In 1976, such a thing would have played just fine. But they're arguably working toward a different standard these days.

I'm not saying it should be a central theme of #23, not by a long shot. But it would be a nice bit of character 'business'---a 'through-line' that an actor such as Craig might want to hang his hat on---if Bond were deliberately making conquests as the adventure goes along.

In a series set to run "till doomsday," IMNO nothing's impossible, and---as in any lifetime---there's no expiration date on a dramatic arc. They've defined it differently, post-reboot, but I think Bond has always been using this very distinctive coping mechanism; might as well make it work toward the greater good B-)

jetsetwilly

"Too busy" is surely a delaying tactic? If we go with the concept of Bond as a user of women, literally taking another vagina in order to expunge the memory of Vesper, then it didn't matter what circumstances he found himself in. Put it a different way: 007 is trapped in an underground cave with Olga Kurylenko in a short dress and stilettos. And yet he still finds something better to do than feed her a line and send her to heaven over a pipeline. For a man desperate to rid himself of Vesper's memory, this isn't exactly active behaviour. Considering the Bond of the YOLT novel is using prostitutes as an attempt to forget Tracy, I think it's safe to say that there are no limits here. Stretching the "OMG! Vesper was horrible!" concept to a third film, sexually, might make Bond look a bit needy and desperate.

Bond as a sexual predator is always a concept I can believe. However, I don't consider it a defining concept. The Bond of the novels only had one girl per book, up until Goldfinger, and even then he has the good taste to wait until the first girl's dead before he starts on the second. I think it's a symptom which is managed, and is one of those things about 007 which really shouldn't be too deeply probed into lest it reveal a whole load of other questions - you know, like his expense account. To return to my original point: one good, interesting, funny, sexy Bond girl (like Vesper or Pam or Holly Goodhead or Tracy or Domino) is a hundred times better than a smorgasbord of bimbos.

Loeffelholz

jetsetwilly wrote:

"Too busy" is surely a delaying tactic?

Yes...until #23

jetsetwilly wrote:

If we go with the concept of Bond as a user of women, literally taking another vagina in order to expunge the memory of Vesper, then it didn't matter what circumstances he found himself in.

Well... I'll not break it down to its anatomical components, but...strictly speaking for my own point of view, all I'll repeat is from above points made, that the emotion of the scenes, and the narrative context in which we receive them, isn't conducive to spontaneous cave sex. Clearly we disagree about this sort of thing...and countless others.

Quantity surely doesn't necessarily equal quality...but neither does it automatically preclude it.

I was merely anticipating a potential 'layer of character' in the next Bond film---nothing necessarily 'defining' in an "on the nose" sense, which dismisses any notion of subtext or nuance---but I'll gladly concede I'm probably wrong.

jamesboldman

The way I see it is, Daniel is busting his arse to really be a memorable, less cliche' bond, and is doing a damn good job. Seeing a little less of what we expect in a Bond film keeps us on the edge wanting more. The longer and more painful action scenes definitely make up for the less sex, but now that he's at even score, I think there'll be plenty more "tom-catting" in store!
I thoroughly enjoyed QOS (all three times i saw it in theaters) and already can't wait for the next, which says alot about the performance!
That's all.
Ciao!

John Drake

Where's all this coming from? Has Hugh Hefner joined AJB?

Napoleon Plural

Blimey jetsetwilly, phrase it a bit more delicately could you?

Apropos of this thread, does anyone think it might have been a mistake to not have that Bollywood star whose name I can't recall, doint QoS instead of Camille? After all, a sticking point was that they couldn't kiss or have hanky panky for fear of inflaming Indian radicals, so in this case (and this case only) it would have worked for QoS?

Personally I don't like the idea of Craig's Bond consciously banging away to put distance between him and Vesper, it sounds awful. Maybe yes to block out the pain, like taking to drink or coke or something, but again I'd rather this was implicit.

Those sex shenanigans of yore were part of the times.

7289

I did not know so many folks missed the "free love" 1960's so much!

First off literary Bond shared Fleming's "what goes on between two consenting adults is their business" ethic. Unlike Fleming Bond did not ask every woman he met if they would like to have sex with him. Bond is a man of action and knows he could die tomarrow, when he meets an attractive girl in distress he usually finds them willing to sleep with him - although not always "on camera" like Mary Goodnight, Pussy Galore and my favorite - Gala Brand.

Seems like movie wise folks here want more odvious sexual content in the films. In another thread they are actually counting nipples! After spending a boring afternoon at "Watchman" with its long, overly graphic and quite boring f**k scene between two of the major charecters, I am quite happy that the Bond films had taken a more restrained attitude towards sex.

DC had Solange in CR, and it was made clear by Vesper that Bond treats woman as objects rather than potential life partners. So Bond's Tomcat nature is established as a pre-existing facet of his personality. That is what is supposed to make his falling in love with Vesper such a "big deal" - it never happened to him before!!!!

I thought the interaction with Fields in QOS a perfect example of "Tomcat Bond" and don't think adding "M" and Moneypenny into the mix would make a Bond film more entertaining - or reveal more of oo7's personality.

Porn is widely available. So if folks are wanting to count nipples, dirty feet etc., Bond shouldn't be a deliberate venue for that kind of activity. I think high adventure, and good living combined with a beautiful lady (or two) is fine and in spirit with the Fleming tradition.

Bond from earlier eras has a "camp" element that many loved. I find little difference between the Feldman "Casino Royale" and any number of EONs pictures. In fact in the case of the Feldman film there is some pretty good dialog not seen in the EON efforts. I don't see a clamour for more Feldman Bond's.

These new EON films with DC have struck a marvellous new serious tone. I'd hate to see them revert to a "funny" movie with Bond acting like a horney poodle dog for half the film and killing people in the other half.

Loeffelholz! sleeping with Moneypenny in Bond 23, as Big Tam would say "You must be joking."

Lexi

Willie Garvin wrote:

Apparently Daniel Craig's 007 made love to Eve Green's Vesper either before or after a swimming scene which for some reason did not appear in either the theatrical version of CR or the 2 DVD releases.Maybe Sony/Columbia/Eon are planning to include it in a 3rd deluxe CR DVD set?

Is that where the picture from the Poster came from, as it shows both Vesper and Bond in the sea, with Bond's chin on Vesper's shoulder while in the water? That photo has always intrigued me, as to where it was in the film.

thesecretagent

John Drake wrote:

Where's all this coming from? Has Hugh Hefner joined AJB?

Sorry!

Loeffelholz

7289 wrote:

Loeffelholz! sleeping with Moneypenny in Bond 23, as Big Tam would say "You must be joking."

Not at all. In another thread,* I described my idea thusly:

"We have the PTS, then the titles. Then, the scene opens with Bond in bed with a lovely lass. There's the customary naughty pillow-talk byplay, wherein we learn that they met somewhere that very night for the first time, and one thing led to another. They agree that this was a 'one time only' thing, as obviously neither of them want an entanglement, and they go their separate ways.

"Some time later (after perhaps an action scene? Perhaps ) Bond shows up at MI6 headquarters, and goes to M's office for a traditional mission briefing. Sitting outside the office is the girl whom Bond recently shagged. M emerges from her office and says, '007, meet my new assistant...Miss Moneypenny. Miss Moneypenny, this is James Bond. You'll want to stay well away from him.'

"In short, I think Eon should have Bond sleeping with a record number of babes in #23...and Miss Moneypenny should be the first."

:v

* "What should happen in Bond 23?"

I confess to being somewhat bemused by all the balking at James Bond sleeping around... ?:)

Loeffelholz

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Personally I don't like the idea of Craig's Bond consciously banging away to put distance between him and Vesper, it sounds awful. Maybe yes to block out the pain, like taking to drink or coke or something, but again I'd rather this was implicit.

Certainly such a thing wouldn't come off as being done consciously if done right...though I'm eager enough to annoy Dan Same with a bit of psychoanalysis to advocate a line or two from M---or May---calling Bond out on it :v ...Bond would just dismiss the accusation out of hand; plot point made.

Clearly I'm nearly alone in this thought...oh well! I have do a reputation as a Bond Radical to maintain, after all... B-)

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Those sex shenanigans of yore were part of the times.

Yeah...thank God that sort of thing doesn't go on anymore... )

jorgem

Roger Moore's Bond movies had many sex scenes than any other Bond actors. :007)

Loeffelholz

jorgem wrote:

Roger Moore's Bond movies had many sex scenes than any other Bond actors. :007)

Yeah...Randy Roger cut a swath through the '70s and '80s :007)

Thunderpussy

I don't care how much between the sheets action Daniel Craig gets,Just that it's better written the IMO. The terrible line in QOS to agent fields about finding the stationary to me anyway seemed really bad, the other Bonds would of had a more witty line something like
Bond looks at the bed and sees the maid has turned down the covers saying " It seems i've been turned down " to which Fields replies as she unbottons her coat and walking to the bedroom " oh i don't know you haven't asked me anything yet "
Now i'm not saying this is any good ( i'm sure other more talented fans could come up with something much better) but i think it's not as hamfisted as the looking for stationary line.

Loeffelholz

I actually enjoyed the 'stationary' line, the payoff for which is Fields' laughing, knowing reaction to it.

Sir Miles

Lexi wrote:

Willie Garvin wrote:

Apparently Daniel Craig's 007 made love to Eve Green's Vesper either before or after a swimming scene which for some reason did not appear in either the theatrical version of CR or the 2 DVD releases.Maybe Sony/Columbia/Eon are planning to include it in a 3rd deluxe CR DVD set?

Is that where the picture from the Poster came from, as it shows both Vesper and Bond in the sea, with Bond's chin on Vesper's shoulder while in the water? That photo has always intrigued me, as to where it was in the film.

In a word - yes.

Not sure why it doesn't turn up on the DVD as a deleted scene though. Unless they didn't film it and only took a few still pictures - but then why go to all the trouble of getting them in the water in the first place !

Monza860

Why does everyone thinks he sleeps with Solange? The champagnes for one and he leaves for Miami, we never actually see him sleep with her.

Solaris

I agree that Bond never slept with Solange, I blieve the scene where they're kissing on the floor is Pre Coital instead of Post with then Solange goes into the bedroom with the intention of sex whilst Bond orders champagne and leaves for Miami. thats how I have always read the scene anyway.

Napoleon Plural

Loeffelholz wrote:

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Those sex shenanigans of yore were part of the times.

Yeah...thank God that sort of thing doesn't go on anymore... )

See my Confessions thread...

Mister White

Monza860 wrote:

Why does everyone thinks he sleeps with Solange? The champagnes for one and he leaves for Miami, we never actually see him sleep with her.

I'm sure he was just pumping her for information...:v

Lexi

Solaris wrote:

I agree that Bond never slept with Solange, I blieve the scene where they're kissing on the floor is Pre Coital instead of Post with then Solange goes into the bedroom with the intention of sex whilst Bond orders champagne and leaves for Miami. thats how I have always read the scene anyway.

I think he had every intent to sleep with Solange, it was only when he heard the phone conversation that he realised he had to take the opportunity to follow Dimitrios right then.

If I was solange - gutted wouldn't begin to cover it - )