Is Bond Getting Better At Revenge?

Thunderpussy

Just a thought on LTK & QOS.
In TLK, Bond Totaly destroys the villans operation, sets the seeds of mistrust causing the villan to kill his own trusted men and in the end Bond kills him.
In QOS, Quantum is still up and running, Bond loses Mr White, and dosen't kill the villan.
Now I'm not putting the boot into QOS but just wondering if Daltond's Bond was a harder nut, and with the new politicaly correct times Bond has to be in touch with his Femenine side and not be as cold and vicious as in the good old 80's

Loeffelholz

I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness, or (for God's sake!) any rubbish about getting in touch with his feminine side More likely, it's to do with the realities of the world today---the perceived shades of grey between right and wrong, or good and evil---and the fact that things don't always get tidied up in a nice box with a bow on it at the end.

I look at it this way: In CR, Bond's first mission as a '00' is basically a failure (a marked difference to the novel, BTW). In QoS, Bond wrecks Dominic Greene's plans for running Bolivia via its water supply (success), sees that Greene will not survive the escapade (the slimy b*****d deserved it), and brings in Vesper's treacherous old boyfriend (success, coupled with self-restraint). He's getting better...

I seem to recall that Connery took more than two films to roll SPECTRE up... and he actually left it to Moore to (finally) drop Blofeld down the smokestack ( ).

Thunderpussy

Points Noted, I just Think The Idea Of Turning His Men Against Each Other, Rather Than Rushing In Blowing Everthing Up, Shows Bond Using His Brain, Trying To Even Out The Odds To His Favour.

Loeffelholz

More accurately, it shows Akira Kurosawa using his brain, since it was his classic film Yojimbo from which producer/'screenwriter' Michael G. Wilson got the idea for those tried-and-true LTK plot devices...

But Craig's Bond is earlier in his career than the Bond of LTK was, so we can expect him to progress toward such a point---hopefully to greater box office success

Thunderpussy

Thers An Old Expression In Showbiz " If Your Gonna Steal, Steal From The Best" and with a writers strike Michael G Wilson Did just that.
I don't know all Kurosawa's Work But He did The Seven Samuri, Which as I'm Sure You Know Was Filmed By Hollywood As The Magnificent Seven. One Of The Greatest Westerns Ever Made.
After All Bond Is a Modern Samuri/Knight, I Loved Brosnan's Take On Bond, That Bond = King Arthur, Q = Merlin ( who gives him his sword etc ) and the Villan of the Piece = The Dragon.
After All As They Say There's Nothing New Under The Sun

Mister White

Kurosawa’s Yojimbo (wich Clint Eastwood has always stated was his favorite movie of all time), was shot as a western starring Clint Eastwood:

For a fistfull of dollars.

It’s very interesting to watch those two movies back to back, as you can see that they are so similar that even most of the camera angles are exactly the same.

It was later done a third time, now starring Bruce Willis, now called Last man standing. Again, same story, now set as a 1930’s gangstermovie. In my opinion they shouldn’t have bothered with the third one, as the first two were great so this one is just a superflous dissapointment.

More people have ‘borrowed’from Kurosawa. Star Wars: A New Hope is nothing more than Kurosawa’s Hidden Fortress in space. But Lucas made it up to him by financing and producing some of Kurosawa’s later pictures.

As for the LTK/QOS thing, I think LTK was a very personal revenge for Bond, where as QOS it’s also personal but also part of his job. This allows Bond to be more professional about it. There is also something to gain from letting Vesper’s boyfried live. He gets to be interrogated.

There was no need to interrogate Sanchez...

Thunderpussy

I agree totaly Mr White Last Man Standing was a huge disapointment to me when released as i'm a big Fan Of old Bruce, and don't really know a lot about Kurosawa but loved A Fist Full Of Dollars.
The LTK/QOS Question I posed was just a Little tongue-in-cheek post,It's up there with which Bond actor would win a fist fight.
If they had of had Q being killed by Sanchez, perhaps dieing in Bonds Arms that would of been one great Bond moment.

Dan Same

Mister White wrote:

It’s very interesting to watch those two movies back to back, as you can see that they are so similar that even most of the camera angles are exactly the same.

Are you sure about that? It's been years since I saw Yojimbo, so my memory is a little hazy on the details, but I've always regarded Leone as a flashier (but equally superb) director than Kurosawa; IMO one of the most elegant directors of all time. I probably should watch the two films back to back, but I don't recall the camera angles being all that similar at all.

Mister White

I love Sergio Leone as well. He learnt from the best.

Please, watch them back to back. You'll find it both enlightening and entertaining, I assure you.

{[]

Dan Same

Mister White wrote:

I love Sergio Leone as well. He learnt from the best.

Please, watch them back to back. You'll find it both enlightening and entertaining, I assure you.

{[]

I will definitely do that. {[] Both films are great, so it won't be too much of an hardship. (I just need to borrow A Fistful fo Dollars as I only own Yojimbo.)

Mister White

So, did you ever get around to it?

Thomas Crown

I don't think this question gets us anywhere because the premise is not settled. I do not believe that both of these films are stories of Bond seeking "revenge." Licence to Kill is, indisputably, but I do not believe revenge is a part of what Bond is pursuing in Quantum of Solace. Bond wrestles with it, initially decides against it due to his uncertainty of whether Vesper was “important” enough for it (did she love him? Or did she betray him?), and ultimately decides against it because he realizes that it will not be through revenge that he gains the comfort he seeks. If there is any underlying quest throughout the course of the film, it is how Bond grows to be okay with being a professional killer. This is, without question, one of the most important elements of the Fleming novels. Fleming mentions in the Goldfinger novel that, while it is “his duty to be as cool about death as a surgeon,” Bond does not like to kill. As we saw in Casino Royale, Vesper opened Bond to the possibility that perhaps he would not have to live such a life anymore. Now that she is gone, Bond is challenged to realize how much she sacrificed for him, so that he can gain the peace within himself to carry out his license to kill without being filled with the “uncontrollable rage” M fears he has. That is different from revenge.