PPK or P99?

EDOG51

I noticed at the start of CR they gone with bond using the P99 the in QofS they went back to the PPK. I personally like the traditional side of them using the old PPK, any thoughts?

agent 00

The PPK is easier to conceal :v,the P99 looks tougher do and has more ammunition.
Butt for a spy the PPK should be big enough.
Bond can't always walk with a big envelope in his hands..:))

-{ Jan

walther p99

I think Craig works well with both the PPK and P99, it all comes down to proper and realistic handling of the weapon, which Brosnan never really did (TND's stealth boat fight), Craig used both the P99 and PPK and in a tactical manner, and its impossible foe me to pick one becuase theyre both such different weapons and have their own pros and cons.

thesecretagent

In the hands of someone who needs to use one a handgun is merely a tool. The PPK is of small-medium calibre, small and consealable (although not very light by modern standards - in proportion to its size) and very tractable. As a secret agent's weapon it's just about right, although there are many better modern alternatives now.
The P99 is a good weapon (and I've used both) but if Bond wanted something to significantly outgun the PPK the P99 in 9mm doesn't seem enough somehow. Yes it takes twice the rounds and 9mm is a bit more powerful. But if Bond wants a high-capacity, more powerful weapon then .40,.45, .357sig or 10mm would better suit the bill and in my opinion Glocks, H&Ks and Sigs are superior to the build quality of the newer Walthers.
But talk of handguns aside, whilst serving in the army I once wanted to carry a Browning 9mm for part of my task on an operation and put in a request to draw one. The RM simply looked at me and said, "Listen dickhead - the day you need a pistol is the day you wished to God you had a rifle..." Enough said I think.

Thunderpussy

I'd like to start by saying I know nothing about guns,But are they like cars eg the tech has moved on and the ppk is now out of date compared to other newer modles.I think athe FBI use alot of Glocks But my only frame of refrence are movies and TV shows,not the best place for accurate infomation.and would anyone have any info on the Asp 9mm from the J Gardner Books,It along with it's special bullets sounds pretty powerfull.

Asp9mm

www.asp9mm.com

Thunderpussy

Thanks for the link Asp9mm, {[]

Number24

I think the most resent books got it right: PKK for "civilian" use and P99 for "tactical" use.
In other words, he should use the P99 when he expects combat and consealment isn't really a big problem.

thesecretagent

Thunderpussy wrote:

I'd like to start by saying I know nothing about guns,But are they like cars eg the tech has moved on and the ppk is now out of date compared to other newer modles.I think athe FBI use alot of Glocks But my only frame of refrence are movies and TV shows,not the best place for accurate infomation.and would anyone have any info on the Asp 9mm from the J Gardner Books,It along with it's special bullets sounds pretty powerfull.

Thunderpussy - it's a bit of a pointless task to argue about what guns are best really. When all is said and done, it's down to the user. Yes, there is a lot more tech now, and yes it's a progressive line in a gun's manufacture, though a far slower progression than a hundred years ago. Weapons went from blackpowder, flintlock to percussion, to paperpatch bullets to the bullets we know today. From single shot to revolver to semi-automatic pistol in such a short period of time. In the past hundred years it's changed very little and a pistol today is no more accurate than a hundred years ago. I have used a Steyr 1917 in 9mm and a Colt .45 1911 and they were as accurate as a straight out of the box Glock 19. A semi-auto pistol from a hundred years ago also cycles its rate of fire as fast as a weapon today (with the obvious exception of full-auto modes). The ammunition is the same (new calibres have popped up recently)but largely a calibre back in Fleming's day is the same power now.
The main changes in the past thirty years are weight of the weapon (lighter now), the fabrication of materials (polymer and plastics)and thanks to wider plastic grips and double-stacked magazines capacity is more. Though not always signifantly. For example a 9mm HP35 Browning carried 13 rds in 1935 and yes, exactly the same today - and many modern firearms are made with magazine capacity far less.
The good news for Bond fans is that the PPK is a classic in that it is still in use by many goverments (including our own military for clandestine operations, close protection and pilots etc)and will be fifty years from now. It isn't broken and doesn't need fixing.

Thunderpussy

Thanks for the Info thesecretagent,It's kind of like talking to Major Boothroyd. :007) I always wondered why in the Brosnan Bonds they changed his gun and wrongly thought it was because the PPK was considered out of date.

Asp9mm

thesecretagent wrote:

Thunderpussy wrote:

I'd like to start by saying I know nothing about guns,But are they like cars eg the tech has moved on and the ppk is now out of date compared to other newer modles.I think athe FBI use alot of Glocks But my only frame of refrence are movies and TV shows,not the best place for accurate infomation.and would anyone have any info on the Asp 9mm from the J Gardner Books,It along with it's special bullets sounds pretty powerfull.

The ammunition is the same (new calibres have popped up recently)but largely a calibre back in Fleming's day is the same power now.

Actually, I'd say that with recent cartidge and round development, that the PPK is potentially more powerful now if used with certain rounds. I wouldn't like to get shot in the face with one.

thesecretagent

Who would?
Indeed there have been many improvements in ammunition development, but most standard practise and law enforcement rounds remain unchanged. A good home-loader would tweek a powder grain and bullet, but only ever to their own requirements. Most semi-auto pistols use a load to approximately 80% of a weapon's proof-grading for safe cycling. So there can always be improvements. But the 7.65mm round is a little cracker. There is no real reason to improve power over original 50's design. It has a good flat tragectory, so why improve on power, and a heavier round to compensate? You would be left with a round with the tragectory of a rainbow. Close-up and it will spin out very high and be off target, and at distance it will hammer down fast and low. Better to go up to 9mm short or .380, or up to 9mm. Use 80% of a cartridge's capability or change calibres altogether.

walther p99

Number24 wrote:

I think the most resent books got it right: PKK for "civilian" use and P99 for "tactical" use.
In other words, he should use the P99 when he expects combat and consealment isn't really a big problem.

In these recent books they had Bond use both?

Asp9mm

thesecretagent wrote:

Who would?
Indeed there have been many improvements in ammunition development, but most standard practise and law enforcement rounds remain unchanged. A good home-loader would tweek a powder grain and bullet, but only ever to their own requirements. Most semi-auto pistols use a load to approximately 80% of a weapon's proof-grading for safe cycling. So there can always be improvements. But the 7.65mm round is a little cracker. There is no real reason to improve power over original 50's design. It has a good flat tragectory, so why improve on power, and a heavier round to compensate? You would be left with a round with the tragectory of a rainbow. Close-up and it will spin out very high and be off target, and at distance it will hammer down fast and low. Better to go up to 9mm short or .380, or up to 9mm. Use 80% of a cartridge's capability or change calibres altogether.

I was talking more about the round itself, like black talons, silvertips and even the Glaser. Back then these things did not exist so internal damage was not so great or noticeable to the recipient. Penetration though is still an issue with the lower calibre rounds and I have seen a 7.65 literally bounce off an RAF greatcoat that was hung loose. A 9mm round certainly does not produce those results. All given, I'd rather go out with the PPS in pmm with longer barrel and greater accuracy and rate of fire than with a PPK. But then it's all down to the individual user. Bond might not be able to hit a barn door with a PPS. For the weight ratio, magazine capacity, accuracy, acquisition time, trigger reset time and reliability, there are much better options than the PPK now, much, much, much better options. They just don't look as good

thesecretagent

Horses for courses. Modern versions will always be better - that's the nature of progression.
I enjoyed owning and using my old PPK as much as anything else I owned or borrowed. But then again, on a range anything that goes bang is great. But yes, Bond could do much better than the old PPK and yes, the alternatives are too numerous to mention. I did like seeing him with the PPK though.

Number24

walther p99 wrote:

Number24 wrote:

I think the most resent books got it right: PKK for "civilian" use and P99 for "tactical" use.
In other words, he should use the P99 when he expects combat and consealment isn't really a big problem.

In these recent books they had Bond use both?

Yes, I seem to remember Bond alternated between PKK and P99 in "The facts of Death".