you're assuming he was born during that time. I believe he was born after, may the late 50's early 60's. All he said was that his father couldn't live with the shame of surviving
"We're both orphans James. While your parents had the luxury of dying in a climbing accident, mine escaped the British betrayal and Stalin's execution squads. But, my father couldn't let himself or his wife live in the shame of it. MI6 figured I was too young to remember. And in one of life's little ironies, their son goes to work for the government that caused a father to kill himself and his wife."
you're assuming he was born during that time. I believe he was born after, may the late 50's early 60's. All he said was that his father couldn't live with the shame of surviving
So the father waited nearly a dozen to 15 years to kill himself and his wife ?
you're assuming he was born during that time. I believe he was born after, may the late 50's early 60's. All he said was that his father couldn't live with the shame of surviving
So the father waited nearly a dozen to 15 years to kill himself and his wife ?
people can live with much guilt and shame for a long time. unlike other emotions, shame tends to build over time, not dissipate. A good friend of mine killed himself 5 years ago over something that happened in Laos 40 years ago.
you're assuming he was born during that time. I believe he was born after, may the late 50's early 60's. All he said was that his father couldn't live with the shame of surviving
So the father waited nearly a dozen to 15 years to kill himself and his wife ?
people can live with much guilt and shame for a long time. unlike other emotions, shame tends to build over time, not dissipate. A good friend of mine killed himself 5 years ago over something that happened in Laos 40 years ago.
If that was the case then the film that would have done right to mention that emotional build up over dozens of years, and I very much doubt that was the case. Also you are talking about a murder-suicide here.
So the father waited nearly a dozen to 15 years to kill himself and his wife ?
people can live with much guilt and shame for a long time. unlike other emotions, shame tends to build over time, not dissipate. A good friend of mine killed himself 5 years ago over something that happened in Laos 40 years ago.
If that was the case then the film that would have done right to mention that emotional build up over dozens of years, and I very much doubt that was the case.
now you're splitting hairs. let's just agree that it isn't as cut and dry as you made it seem. It could easily go either way.
plus you're assuming it wasn't lost on the cutting room floor somewhere and...yet again...if you wanted to go over plot holes in Bond films this one is pretty minor
now you're splitting hairs. let's just agree that it isn't as cut and dry as you made it seem. It could easily go either way.
No I am not agreeing to that. This was a case murder suicide and you would have to mention the circumstances very carefully. Also this film was pretty much a "cut and dry" 90's action film so it's not surprising it would half ass the villian's motivation.
plus you're assuming it wasn't lost on the cutting room floor somewhere
No, because I have read the early and final drafts of the script. I have read what was cut.
for instance - Brad Whittaker and Jack Wade
That isn't a plot hole. That is just the same actor.
now you're splitting hairs. let's just agree that it isn't as cut and dry as you made it seem. It could easily go either way.
No I am not agreeing to that. This was a case murder suicide and you would have to mention the circumstances very carefully. Also this film was pretty much cut and dry so it's not surprising it would half ass the villian's motivation.
plus you're assuming it wasn't lost on the cutting room floor somewhere
No, because I have read the early and final drafts of the script.
for instance - Brad Whittaker and Jack Wade
That isn't a plot hole. That is just the same actor.
well according to you if it isn't on screen you can't infer much into it (in this case the dialogue) i.e. what's on screen is what is what. if the same guy plays two people they're either twins or something cosmological is happening here. you can't really have it both ways
well according to you if it isn't on screen you can't infer much into it (in this case the dialogue) i.e. what's on screen is what is what. if the same guy plays two people they're either twins or something cosmological is happening here. you can't really have it both ways
What the hell are you talking about ? It's just the same actor in two different roles. Movies series and TV series do this all the time, especially the latter since it's much cheaper to do then hire different actors.
If that was the case then the film that would have done right to mention that emotional build up over dozens of years, and I very much doubt that was the case. Also you are talking about a murder-suicide here.
I didn't want to enter into this discussion, but Rick, it doesn't matter whether it was a murder-suicide or not. Shame can take a long time to fester, and it can (and sometimes) results in murder-suicides. I've known of people who felt such enormous guilt and shame that (in their eyes) the only thing left to do was to kill themselves and take their families with them. So on that basis I have to agree with Mr Beach that the film didn't provide any indication that Alec had to have been 50 years of age.
Oh, BTW, in regards to whether or not he was a great villain; two words. Sean Bean.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Dr. Julius No [22]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19] Auric Goldfinger [22] +1= [23]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [25]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5] Mr. White [4] -1= [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Dr. Julius No [22]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [22] +1= [23]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12] Francisco Scaramanga [25] - 1 = [24]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5] Mr. White [3]+ 1 = [4]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
For Alec Trevelyan I only have three words: Sharpe, Sharpe, Sharpe!
Dr. Julius No [22]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19] Auric Goldfinger [23] +1= [24]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [24]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5] Mr. White [4] -1= [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Dr. Julius No [22]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12] Francisco Scaramanga [24] - 1 = [23]
Max Zorin [6] Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [3] +1= [4]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
If that was the case then the film that would have done right to mention that emotional build up over dozens of years, and I very much doubt that was the case. Also you are talking about a murder-suicide here.
I didn't want to enter into this discussion, but Rick, it doesn't matter whether it was a murder-suicide or not. Shame can take a long time to fester, and it can (and sometimes) results in murder-suicides. I've known of people who felt such enormous guilt and shame that (in their eyes) the only thing left to do was to kill themselves and take their families with them. So on that basis I have to agree with Mr Beach that the film didn't provide any indication that Alec had to have been 50 years of age.
Oh, BTW, in regards to whether or not he was a great villain; two words. Sean Bean.
You don't just go commit suicide after 15 years unless something that happened to you recently sends you over the edge. I have been through this, trust me.
j.bladesCurrently? You must be joking?Posts: 530MI6 Agent
Dr. Julius No [22]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24] Emilio Largo [8]+ 1= [9]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5] Mr. White [4] - 1 = [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
"I take a ridiculous pleasure in what I eat and drink."
You don't just go commit suicide after 15 years unless something that happened to you recently sends you over the edge. I have been through this, trust me.
Me too, and it's not that you just go commit suicide; it builds up until it explodes. We don't know the details. We can only go on what Alec said, and nothing that he said indicated when his father killed himself. For all we know, he could have killed himself 20 years after escaping Stalin's execution squads.
How do you know that something didn't send his father over the edge, or even the exact nature of his death? You can speculate, as can all of us, but there is no evidence to suggest that Alec had to be 50 years of age and that his father couldn't have killed himself and his wife many years after the event.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Me too, and it's not that you just go commit suicide; it builds up until it explodes.
And something has to be spark that sets you off. When people commit suicide, something else has had to happen recently in order to drive to be that desperate to escape your pain. Especially when you are going to shoot your own wife as well. It just dosen't build and explode, people aren't that simple.
We don't know the details. We can only go on what Alec said, and nothing that he said indicated when his father killed himself. For all we know, he could have killed himself 20 years after escaping Stalin's execution squads.
How do you know that something didn't send his father over the edge, or even the exact nature of his death? You can speculate, as can all of us, but there is no evidence to suggest that Alec had to be 50 years of age and that his father couldn't have killed himself and his wife many years after the event.
Well the film isn't leaving me much choice to believe it happened anytime other then the time period indicated.
Dr. Julius No [22] + 1 + [23]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24] Emilio Largo [9]- 1= [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
Me too, and it's not that you just go commit suicide; it builds up until it explodes.
And something has to be spark that sets you off. When people commit suicide, something else has had to happen recently in order to drive to be that desperate to escape your pain.
Yes, but you don't know that something else didn't happen. Alec only said that his father killed himself; should he have gone into explicit detail of why and when?
All this openess for speculation just proved how poorly written his motivation was.
I don't agree in the slightest. The fact that it's open to speculation has nothing to do with the quality of the writing; it's simply ambigurous. If anything, it's a sign of how good the writing is as great writing can be and often is open to speculation. Although in terms of his actual motivation, I don't think it's so ambigurous.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Yes, but you don't know that something else didn't happen. Alec only said that his father killed himself; should he have gone into explicit detail of why and when?
Again, the poor writing gives nothing to go on. I don't know how you can execuse that. What asking for what was the trigger, that is a very important fact that had to be cited in order for this back story to be credible.
I don't agree in the slightest. The fact that it's open to speculation has nothing to do with the quality of the writing; it's simply ambigurous. If anything, it's a sign of how good the writing is as great writing can be and often is open to speculation. Although in terms of his actual motivation, I don't think it's so ambigurous.
Yes it does because it poorly addresses human nature. It's a half assed plot. If you start citing specific instances of when a character's nature originate, you can't leave something important like the circumstances of his parent's death out.
Yes, but you don't know that something else didn't happen. Alec only said that his father killed himself; should he have gone into explicit detail of why and when?
Again, the poor writing gives nothing to go on.
I guess we have a different view of what constitues poor writing. If he had gone into the whens and hows, that would be poor IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this particular piece of writing was superb as it addressed Alec's resentment but it didn't venture too much into exposition.
I don't agree in the slightest. The fact that it's open to speculation has nothing to do with the quality of the writing; it's simply ambigurous. If anything, it's a sign of how good the writing is as great writing can be and often is open to speculation. Although in terms of his actual motivation, I don't think it's so ambigurous.
Yes it dose because it poorly addresses human nature. It's a half assed plot. If you start citing specific instances of when a character's nature originate, you can't just leave something out.
Again I disagree. The point wasn't to specifically give an instance of when the character's nature began (god, I would have hated that ), but, as I said above, to explain Alec's resentment without venturing too much into exposition. I don't want to be told when and how his father died; I'm not interested and IMO that's bad writing. I think the plot was great, and apart from the psychoanalysis, I thought the dialogue was superb.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I guess we have a different view of what constitues poor writing. If he had gone into the whens and hows, that would be poor IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this particular piece of writing was superb as it addressed Alec's resentment but it didn't venture too much into exposition.
Venturing too much into exposition is saying if his father used a gun or a knife, not the motivation. This writing 101 here, if you are going make some character do something, you have to give him or her the motivation to do it.
Again I disagree. The point wasn't to specifically give an instance of when the character's nature began (god, I would have hated that ), but, as I said above, to explain Alec's resentment without venturing too much into exposition. I don't want to be told when and how his father died; I'm not interested and IMO that's bad writing.
I am asking about the why. Again, that the most important part writing a good story.
Venturing too much into exposition is saying if his father used a gun or a knife, not the motivation. This writing 101 here, if you are going make some character do something, you have to give him or her the motivation to do it.
He did explain the motivation for his father killing himself; shame, and he provided motivation for his own deeds.
I am asking about the why. Again, that the most important part writing a good story.
He did explain the why.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
He did explain the motivation for his father killing himself; shame, and he provided motivation for his own deeds.
Again this goes back to not explaining the circumstances. The film is leaving me no choice to believe it happened at the time period it indicated. Also if it happened much later, that had to be addressed. This is bad writing.
He did explain the why.
Like I have saying this whole time, he never fully explained why.
Again this goes back to not explaining the circumstances. The film is leaving me no choice to believe it happened at the time period it indicated. Also if it happened much later, that had to be addressed. This is bad writing.
According to you. I have no problem with the way it was explained as I do not make any assumptions as to when it occured. I think it's very good writing, for reasons I've explained earlier.
Like I have saying this whole time, he never fully explained why.
I'm happy with the explanation.
Rick, if you want to continue with the discussion, I would be perfectly happy to, however perhaps we should do it by PM. We're going around in circles and it's monopolising this thread.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Rick, if you want to continue with the discussion, I would be perfectly happy to, however perhaps we should do it by PM. We're going around in circles and it's monopolising this thread.
There is really nothing else to say. You think it's good writing, I think it's crap because it leaves out important details.
And something has to be spark that sets you off. When people commit suicide, something else has had to happen recently in order to drive to be that desperate to escape your pain. Especially when you are going to shoot your own wife as well. It just dosen't build and explode, people aren't that simple.
I admire your broad knowledge in that field. How did you get all your valuable knowledge regarding this?
And how many people have you interviewed, after they felt the spark which set them off?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dr. Julius No [23]
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24] Emilio Largo [8]+ 1= [9]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6] Alec Trevelyan [5]-1=[4]
Mr. White [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
Comments
So the father waited nearly a dozen to 15 years to kill himself and his wife ?
people can live with much guilt and shame for a long time. unlike other emotions, shame tends to build over time, not dissipate. A good friend of mine killed himself 5 years ago over something that happened in Laos 40 years ago.
If that was the case then the film that would have done right to mention that emotional build up over dozens of years, and I very much doubt that was the case. Also you are talking about a murder-suicide here.
now you're splitting hairs. let's just agree that it isn't as cut and dry as you made it seem. It could easily go either way.
plus you're assuming it wasn't lost on the cutting room floor somewhere and...yet again...if you wanted to go over plot holes in Bond films this one is pretty minor
for instance - Brad Whittaker and Jack Wade
No I am not agreeing to that. This was a case murder suicide and you would have to mention the circumstances very carefully. Also this film was pretty much a "cut and dry" 90's action film so it's not surprising it would half ass the villian's motivation.
No, because I have read the early and final drafts of the script. I have read what was cut.
That isn't a plot hole. That is just the same actor.
well according to you if it isn't on screen you can't infer much into it (in this case the dialogue) i.e. what's on screen is what is what. if the same guy plays two people they're either twins or something cosmological is happening here. you can't really have it both ways
carry on
What the hell are you talking about ? It's just the same actor in two different roles. Movies series and TV series do this all the time, especially the latter since it's much cheaper to do then hire different actors.
Oh, BTW, in regards to whether or not he was a great villain; two words. Sean Bean.
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [22] +1= [23]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [25]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [4] -1= [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [22] +1= [23]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [25] - 1 = [24]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [3]+ 1 = [4]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
For Alec Trevelyan I only have three words: Sharpe, Sharpe, Sharpe!
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [23] +1= [24]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [24]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [4] -1= [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24]
Emilio Largo [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [24] - 1 = [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [3] +1= [4]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
You don't just go commit suicide after 15 years unless something that happened to you recently sends you over the edge. I have been through this, trust me.
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24]
Emilio Largo [8]+ 1= [9]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [4] - 1 = [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
~ Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
How do you know that something didn't send his father over the edge, or even the exact nature of his death? You can speculate, as can all of us, but there is no evidence to suggest that Alec had to be 50 years of age and that his father couldn't have killed himself and his wife many years after the event.
And something has to be spark that sets you off. When people commit suicide, something else has had to happen recently in order to drive to be that desperate to escape your pain. Especially when you are going to shoot your own wife as well. It just dosen't build and explode, people aren't that simple.
Well the film isn't leaving me much choice to believe it happened anytime other then the time period indicated.
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24]
Emilio Largo [9]- 1= [8]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]
Mr. White [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon
I don't agree in the slightest. The fact that it's open to speculation has nothing to do with the quality of the writing; it's simply ambigurous. If anything, it's a sign of how good the writing is as great writing can be and often is open to speculation. Although in terms of his actual motivation, I don't think it's so ambigurous.
Again, the poor writing gives nothing to go on. I don't know how you can execuse that. What asking for what was the trigger, that is a very important fact that had to be cited in order for this back story to be credible.
Yes it does because it poorly addresses human nature. It's a half assed plot. If you start citing specific instances of when a character's nature originate, you can't leave something important like the circumstances of his parent's death out.
Again I disagree. The point wasn't to specifically give an instance of when the character's nature began (god, I would have hated that
Venturing too much into exposition is saying if his father used a gun or a knife, not the motivation. This writing 101 here, if you are going make some character do something, you have to give him or her the motivation to do it.
I am asking about the why. Again, that the most important part writing a good story.
He did explain the why.
Again this goes back to not explaining the circumstances. The film is leaving me no choice to believe it happened at the time period it indicated. Also if it happened much later, that had to be addressed. This is bad writing.
Like I have saying this whole time, he never fully explained why.
I'm happy with the explanation.
Rick, if you want to continue with the discussion, I would be perfectly happy to, however perhaps we should do it by PM. We're going around in circles and it's monopolising this thread.
There is really nothing else to say. You think it's good writing, I think it's crap because it leaves out important details.
I admire your broad knowledge in that field. How did you get all your valuable knowledge regarding this?
And how many people have you interviewed, after they felt the spark which set them off?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Rosa Klebb [17]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Anthony Dawson) [19]
Auric Goldfinger [24]
Emilio Largo [8]+ 1= [9]
Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Telly Savalas) [12]
Francisco Scaramanga [23]
Max Zorin [6]
Alec Trevelyan [5]-1=[4]
Mr. White [3]
Eliminated:
11th - Franz Sanchez
12th - Le Chiffre
13th - Dr. Kananga/Mr. Big
14th - Elektra King
15th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Donald Pleasence)
16th - Hugo Drax
17th - Aristotle Kristatos
18th - Kamal Khan
19th - General Orlov
20th - General Georgi Koskov
21st - Karl Stromberg
22nd - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Charles Gray)
23rd - Viktor "Renard" Zokas
24th - Dominic Greene
25th - Brad Whitaker
26th - Ernst Stavro Blofeld (John Hollis)
27th - Elliot Carver
28th - Gustav Graves/Colonel Sun-Tan Moon