Well, I can agree with you, Ricardo, that the films lost their touch of excellence perhaps after OHMSS. And I can totally understand Fleming's disdain for their adaptations, because his sense of storytelling is far removed from the populist styles of the films. But I think that Bond as populist art is superior to Bond as serious pulp espionage. I just feel more appreciation ofr them.
And I'm totally with you on returning Bond to a thriller series over an action series. I think that the most satisfying films in the series actually fit under the category of "Adventure" over "Thriller", "Espionage" or "Action". (Referring to Goldfinger and TSWLM). Those films took great elements of suspense and thriller storytelling while sugarcoating them with fashion-forward stylistic choices. I think the later Moore films and the Brosnan era films tried to hard to make Adventure films and just came up with cartoonish Action films. I do respect Casino Royale for bringing psychology into the series. I'll have to take your word on it being unfaithful as I have never read that one.
Its sad to think Fleming didn't like Dr. No. Its pretty amazing for such a low budget film that totally skips Bond's origins. The casting, the direction and the music are superb. I think they really couldn't have done better in that time period. Taking out the nudity, mild racism and Dr. No's green skin were all great and obvious choices.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
The tragedy of Vesper was not fully exploited in film. In the novel Vesper, for Bond, became the beacon of black and white in a world that was udderly gray. When she died, he was thrown into a devistating psychological loop that he shoved him right back into Mi6.
Fair enough. I would have preferred something closer to the novel. But the essence remains much the same for me.
The torture sequence was played for laughs in the movie. In Fleming's novel, it was dark. Bond barely talked back to Le Chiffre because he was in so much pain and he slipped in and out of consciousness, he was totally at his mercy.
Yes. Brilliant in the book...and utterly unfilmable that way, unfortunately, if you're courting the film audience that's been putting cash in the coffers since '62. I never felt it was 'played for laughs' in the least, using the yardstick laid out by 40+ years if previous Bonds, at any rate. This remains my favourite scene in the film. I feel that the moment when Le Chiffre tells Bond, "You really aren't going to tell me...are you?" and Bond laughs and says, "No," well, that's the moment when Craig became James Bond for me: a modern amalgam of classic Fleming that brought the cinematic heritage along for the ride.
We all understand how disappointed you are with the state of Bond on film, to be sure, and I think it's safe to say that all remaining issues pertaining to your ambiguity with regard to this issue have been resolved
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I kind of like the word bastardized. Yes, bastardized.
Yes. Brilliant in the book...and utterly unfilmable that way, unfortunately, if you're courting the film audience that's been putting cash in the coffers since '62. I never felt it was 'played for laughs' in the least, using the yardstick laid out by 40+ years if previous Bonds, at any rate. This remains my favourite scene in the film. I feel that the moment when Le Chiffre tells Bond, "You really aren't going to tell me...are you?" and Bond laughs and says, "No," well, that's the moment when Craig became James Bond for me: a modern amalgam of classic Fleming that brought the cinematic heritage along for the ride.
There are way too many exchanges of one liners to take it very seriously, it was definetly played for laughs. It did not feel like a jarring or devistating experience. Possibly for the first few moments but no more. Unfilmable the way it was ? Hardly. Surely they could have better illustrated Bond feeling udderly defeated, like he knew this was it. In the film it felt like a temporary inconvience for Bond, not much else. And afterwards, the recover was again watered down. Bond's world was not devistated. He was in the hospital for a little and that's it, moving on. Casino Royale was a very simple film that took on a very complex book.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The problem is a novel averages 300 pages and a screenplay is usually no more than 80. A novel also transports you to another place via your own imagination and perception of description. We can all read a well-written novel and all come up with a different idea of how a location appears or feels, or how a character actually looks, despite the author's best efforts. I have seen a talented editor literally striking through page after page to form a novel, let alone a screenplay. Add also to this, the amount of footage cut from filming for every reason from budget to legal reasons to simply length of the final cut, and what goes on film hardly resembles the original novel. Anyone who spotted a few ques from Casino Royale as the novel should be pleased at best.
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
The problem is a novel averages 300 pages and a screenplay is usually no more than 80. A novel also transports you to another place via your own imagination and perception of description. We can all read a well-written novel and all come up with a different idea of how a location appears or feels, or how a character actually looks, despite the author's best efforts. I have seen a talented editor literally striking through page after page to form a novel, let alone a screenplay. Add also to this, the amount of footage cut from filming for every reason from budget to legal reasons to simply length of the final cut, and what goes on film hardly resembles the original novel. Anyone who spotted a few ques from Casino Royale as the novel should be pleased at best.
I definelty agree about the troubles that come with adapting a book to film. Still, one can still perserve the orginal ideas and CR did not do a good job of it IMO.
Well, the torture scene wasn't going to be Hostel 2 was it? That said, the 'laughs' were of a very dark kind; not like Roger Moore raising his eyebrow and going, "I'm surprised you don't have more wrist action, what with your proclivities..." Actually that's not a bad line, they should have used that...
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
Well, the torture scene wasn't going to be Hostel 2 was it? That said, the 'laughs' were of a very dark kind; not like Roger Moore raising his eyebrow and going, "I'm surprised you don't have more wrist action, what with your proclivities..." Actually that's not a bad line, they should have used that...
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
I was certaintly not expecting something as horrid as Hostel but some genuine tension would have been great.
Well, the torture scene wasn't going to be Hostel 2 was it? That said, the 'laughs' were of a very dark kind; not like Roger Moore raising his eyebrow and going, "I'm surprised you don't have more wrist action, what with your proclivities..." Actually that's not a bad line, they should have used that...
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
HAHA I know what you mean. The scene coupled with Bond in a man-bikini gave Casino Royale a homoerotic feel that I didn't care for. I guess after years of presenting women as eye candy, they tried it with Bond.
Well, the torture scene wasn't going to be Hostel 2 was it? That said, the 'laughs' were of a very dark kind; not like Roger Moore raising his eyebrow and going, "I'm surprised you don't have more wrist action, what with your proclivities..." Actually that's not a bad line, they should have used that...
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
HAHA I know what you mean. The scene coupled with Bond in a man-bikini gave Casino Royale a homoerotic feel that I didn't care for. I guess after years of presenting women as eye candy, they tried it with Bond.
I think Casino Royale had Bond in more shirtless scenes than other actor before him.
Yes, I do get your point. Connery was either swimming, about to swim, or had been swimming. Craig is on the computer, walking around, strapped to a chair - I think Barbara Brocolli rather likes him like that! ) After all, this re-boot or whatever seems to be her baby...
Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:
The problem is a novel averages 300 pages and a screenplay is usually no more than 80. A novel also transports you to another place via your own imagination and perception of description. We can all read a well-written novel and all come up with a different idea of how a location appears or feels, or how a character actually looks, despite the author's best efforts. I have seen a talented editor literally striking through page after page to form a novel, let alone a screenplay. Add also to this, the amount of footage cut from filming for every reason from budget to legal reasons to simply length of the final cut, and what goes on film hardly resembles the original novel. Anyone who spotted a few ques from Casino Royale as the novel should be pleased at best.
The novel Casino Royale is precisely 144 pages.
Full-length screenplays are 100 to 120 pages, and many are longer than 120 pages.
I have hundreds of screenplays piled up in my office, including many of the Bond scripts and continuities. Very few are 80 pages -- not even the old Universal horror films were as short as 80 pages. Bond scripts are much longer than 80 pages. I have one draft of CASINO ROYALE that is 167 pages.
The changes made to CASINO ROYALE are a matter of personal choice and of creative intent, not matters of necessity. With a budget of $150,000,000, a production schedule lasting a year including 4 months of principle photography, a running time of 144 minutes, and a legal team that's larger and more powerful than some governments, EON productions can pretty much make the film it wants to make.
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
Bond isn't supposed to be built like Tarzan. Craig could easily break up that rattan chair. He's too musclebound for the torture scene to play out the way it does. Acting as if he's afraid is pointless when his physicality belies the fear. And so the torture scene is only believable to those who are not paying close attention.
The top 7 Bond films: 1) Dr No. 2) From Russia With Love. 3) Thunderball. 4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service. 5) For Your Eyes Only. 6) The Living Daylights. 7) Licence to Kill.
I've seen quite a few screenplays at 80-odd pages. I'm sure there are much longer ones. My agent always aimed at selling 300 page novels (approx) and that's what my own, and the majority of novels pan out to, or 120,000 words more or less. You obviously know more about screenplays than myself, so... whatever.
Craig's torture scene was about the most realistic piece of acting he's done. There is a point when everybody, no matter how fit, strong or mentally composed realises that there's nothing they can do. They either give up and tell all, and do it very quickly, or they hold out, tough-up, and become self-destructive, but end up eventually going the same way. Craig's Bond did this, egging on Le Chiffre, but ultimately would have come to an end very quickly without Mr. White's intervention. Two or three wraps of tape around the wrists and ankles as Bond had would hold anyone, no matter how they are built.
I know this from interrorgation training and exercises in the army, and have also seen it in practice in Iraq. Big strong men brake as quickly as small ones.
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I agree TSA, a few strips of tape will hold anyone down I know from experience not Military just a very agressive ex-Girlfriend. I broke down very quickly, she didn't seem to remember the safety word )
On the topic of scripts, I always thought a page of script equaled one minute of screen time
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I've seen quite a few screenplays at 80-odd pages. I'm sure there are much longer ones. My agent always aimed at selling 300 page novels (approx) and that's what my own, and the majority of novels pan out to, or 120,000 words more or less. You obviously know more about screenplays than myself, so... whatever.
Craig's torture scene was about the most realistic piece of acting he's done. There is a point when everybody, no matter how fit, strong or mentally composed realises that there's nothing they can do. They either give up and tell all, and do it very quickly, or they hold out, tough-up, and become self-destructive, but end up eventually going the same way. Craig's Bond did this, egging on Le Chiffre, but ultimately would have come to an end very quickly without Mr. White's intervention. Two or three wraps of tape around the wrists and ankles as Bond had would hold anyone, no matter how they are built.
I know this from interrorgation training and exercises in the army, and have also seen it in practice in Iraq. Big strong men brake as quickly as small ones.
Comments
And I'm totally with you on returning Bond to a thriller series over an action series. I think that the most satisfying films in the series actually fit under the category of "Adventure" over "Thriller", "Espionage" or "Action". (Referring to Goldfinger and TSWLM). Those films took great elements of suspense and thriller storytelling while sugarcoating them with fashion-forward stylistic choices. I think the later Moore films and the Brosnan era films tried to hard to make Adventure films and just came up with cartoonish Action films. I do respect Casino Royale for bringing psychology into the series. I'll have to take your word on it being unfaithful as I have never read that one.
Its sad to think Fleming didn't like Dr. No. Its pretty amazing for such a low budget film that totally skips Bond's origins. The casting, the direction and the music are superb. I think they really couldn't have done better in that time period. Taking out the nudity, mild racism and Dr. No's green skin were all great and obvious choices.
In short, they adapted the novel to film
Fair enough. I would have preferred something closer to the novel. But the essence remains much the same for me.
Yes. Brilliant in the book...and utterly unfilmable that way, unfortunately, if you're courting the film audience that's been putting cash in the coffers since '62. I never felt it was 'played for laughs' in the least, using the yardstick laid out by 40+ years if previous Bonds, at any rate. This remains my favourite scene in the film. I feel that the moment when Le Chiffre tells Bond, "You really aren't going to tell me...are you?" and Bond laughs and says, "No," well, that's the moment when Craig became James Bond for me: a modern amalgam of classic Fleming that brought the cinematic heritage along for the ride.
We all understand how disappointed you are with the state of Bond on film, to be sure, and I think it's safe to say that all remaining issues pertaining to your ambiguity with regard to this issue have been resolved
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I kind of like the word bastardized. Yes, bastardized.
There are way too many exchanges of one liners to take it very seriously, it was definetly played for laughs. It did not feel like a jarring or devistating experience. Possibly for the first few moments but no more. Unfilmable the way it was ? Hardly. Surely they could have better illustrated Bond feeling udderly defeated, like he knew this was it. In the film it felt like a temporary inconvience for Bond, not much else. And afterwards, the recover was again watered down. Bond's world was not devistated. He was in the hospital for a little and that's it, moving on. Casino Royale was a very simple film that took on a very complex book.
No. You adore the word; you're addicted
I double-dog dare you.
You're killing me -{
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
You are low...
Whoops !
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I definelty agree about the troubles that come with adapting a book to film. Still, one can still perserve the orginal ideas and CR did not do a good job of it IMO.
I thought it was sour humour, laughing in the face of death, that sort of thing though personally I didn't care for the scene or how it was done. Craig's body looked a bit too muscley, somewhat overdone or odd, and other stuff didn't quite work for me. Still.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I was certaintly not expecting something as horrid as Hostel but some genuine tension would have been great.
HAHA I know what you mean. The scene coupled with Bond in a man-bikini gave Casino Royale a homoerotic feel that I didn't care for. I guess after years of presenting women as eye candy, they tried it with Bond.
I think Casino Royale had Bond in more shirtless scenes than other actor before him.
http://apbateman.com
I guess. He usually put on a shirt as soon he left the water. Craig kind of flaunted his bod alot more.
http://apbateman.com
The novel Casino Royale is precisely 144 pages.
Full-length screenplays are 100 to 120 pages, and many are longer than 120 pages.
I have hundreds of screenplays piled up in my office, including many of the Bond scripts and continuities. Very few are 80 pages -- not even the old Universal horror films were as short as 80 pages. Bond scripts are much longer than 80 pages. I have one draft of CASINO ROYALE that is 167 pages.
The changes made to CASINO ROYALE are a matter of personal choice and of creative intent, not matters of necessity. With a budget of $150,000,000, a production schedule lasting a year including 4 months of principle photography, a running time of 144 minutes, and a legal team that's larger and more powerful than some governments, EON productions can pretty much make the film it wants to make.
Bond isn't supposed to be built like Tarzan. Craig could easily break up that rattan chair. He's too musclebound for the torture scene to play out the way it does. Acting as if he's afraid is pointless when his physicality belies the fear. And so the torture scene is only believable to those who are not paying close attention.
Craig's torture scene was about the most realistic piece of acting he's done. There is a point when everybody, no matter how fit, strong or mentally composed realises that there's nothing they can do. They either give up and tell all, and do it very quickly, or they hold out, tough-up, and become self-destructive, but end up eventually going the same way. Craig's Bond did this, egging on Le Chiffre, but ultimately would have come to an end very quickly without Mr. White's intervention. Two or three wraps of tape around the wrists and ankles as Bond had would hold anyone, no matter how they are built.
I know this from interrorgation training and exercises in the army, and have also seen it in practice in Iraq. Big strong men brake as quickly as small ones.
http://apbateman.com
On the topic of scripts, I always thought a page of script equaled one minute of screen time
Roger Moore 1927-2017
http://youtu.be/p6fBZ1BtcUQ
http://apbateman.com