you guys trust each others opinion. Great. I dont trust anybody and people that exist in the real world are very skeptical and they should be. Apparently these would only be bought by an inner ciricle of die hard collectors who know what they are looking for so provence for you guys wouldnt be required. If I was gonna spend the cash, it would be for me. I would need to know 100% that these were legal to own and 100% (not 98%) legit. and thats the difference between you guys and me.
Go to any hollywood museum with these claiming they were legit and tell them that you dont have any paperwork but have a good story and other's trusted opinion. They would simply thank you for showing them and then show you to the door. Thats how it is. Ironclad is needed for most collectors but not all. But to claim that the ones who need it are ignorant, well thats ignorance in of itself.
If I have a question re. SD Studios items, I know who to ask.
If I have a question regarding a watch, I am asking myself and Donald Grant
And that can be continued
But that's me - telling you to trust person X for item y won't convice you as you prefer paper. You have to learn - sometimes the hard way
It takes some time to,realize that many people here know their thing but I trust this bunch of nuts more than every self-proclaimed expert ( And one of these is a very good example - Dell Deaton anyone? ).
I have no intention to sell to any Hollywood museum and you'd be surprised how these are filled with dubious items re. Authenticity.
A certificate is only as much worth as the person who issued it.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
you guys trust each others opinion. Great. I dont trust anybody and people that exist in the real world are very skeptical and they should be. Apparently these would only be bought by an inner ciricle of die hard collectors who know what they are looking for so provence for you guys wouldnt be required. If I was gonna spend the cash, it would be for me. I would need to know 100% that these were legal to own and 100% (not 98%) legit. and thats the difference between you guys and me.
Go to any hollywood museum with these claiming they were legit and tell them that you dont have any paperwork but have a good story and other's trusted opinion. They would simply thank you for showing them and then show you to the door. Thats how it is. Ironclad is needed for most collectors but not all. But to claim that the ones who need it are ignorant, well thats ignorance in of itself.
it must be a sad existence not trusting anyone
and them Hollywood stores would have no problem buying the chips without paperwork, and then charging you double for a bit of paper that means nothing -{
No the difference between you and us is that we specialise and know our subject, you generalise. If you maintain that every piece in your collection is 100% legit and genuine then you must a) Be very rich and b) Only deal directly with production companies.
Personally I don't have any of the problems that we're discussing as I only collect licensed reproduction items (SD & FE) or available commercial items of the same type used in in a Bond production. Talented artisans that frequent this forum have also gifted some locally made reproductions of items not commercially available, if you've ever reproduced any type of prop to the accuracy and quality seen here then you would realise the amount of research and effort that goes into these items, this itself increase ones knowledge of the original items, which is another reason we can be so authoritative where Bond props are concerned. These can range from a genuine 1964 Gillette Razor, a Parker Jotter etc through to a Goldeneye Mine just as an example. Just accept we know our stuff and don't always need papers of authenticity, although it does add to the value of licensed items eg an original SD Golden Gun is worth more to a collector with the accompanying paperwork, but as our resident SD expert will tell you, he can spot a genuine GG from 10 yards away with his eyes closed and doesn't need paper work to tell him it's genuine.
you guys trust each others opinion. Great. I dont trust anybody and people that exist in the real world are very skeptical and they should be. Apparently these would only be bought by an inner ciricle of die hard collectors who know what they are looking for so provence for you guys wouldnt be required. If I was gonna spend the cash, it would be for me. I would need to know 100% that these were legal to own and 100% (not 98%) legit. and thats the difference between you guys and me.
Go to any hollywood museum with these claiming they were legit and tell them that you dont have any paperwork but have a good story and other's trusted opinion. They would simply thank you for showing them and then show you to the door. Thats how it is. Ironclad is needed for most collectors but not all. But to claim that the ones who need it are ignorant, well thats ignorance in of itself.
Perhaps the bridge here is quality photos. For things like chips, photos are usually enough. What I found interesting about this sale was the chips, not the plaques. How much would someone be willing to pay for chips that were screen used/screen seen knowing they are identical to other chips you can get for $1 apiece? I remember asking a friend what the perceived difference was between his Omegas and knockoffs that are identical online except for the little sticker on the back no one can see next to your wrist, and he said, "Pride of ownership." That's a lot of pride at $3K a watch!
I mean, there were over 6,000 chips of all denominations supplied to Casino Royale for the main poker scene and the outer room's poker tables alone... would I pay more for the stack of Skyfall black (?) chips DC gets from in front of the cashier with "Good fortune" added...? I dunno.
The best way is to (God help me!) keep your integrity and also befriend like-minded collectors. When someone tells me the story on the phone of how they found a prop for 25 minutes, I feel more certain...
So, BCW, if I said to you my CR chips are up for grabs, would you ask for paper work ? or snap my hand off, my story of how I came to have them is over with in 3 words so hardly 25 mins, and really at the end of the day you don't know me, that is why Im asking you?
So, BCW, if I said to you my CR chips are up for grabs, would you ask for paper work ? or snap my hand off, my story of how I came to have them is over with in 3 words so hardly 25 mins, and really at the end of the day you don't know me, that is why Im asking you?
All I could provide was a photo.
Not at all, because it's you!
And then again, for someone who wasn't you who offered a brief item story, we'd probably shoot the breeze about other Bond things for 25 minutes (if you had time) and then I'd know and so on anyway. You know what I mean?
It's like the Bond cruise next month with me--I probably should stick a cabin for two on eBay besides what's in the Vic Flick auction--people call me either to talk about fandom and what locations we'll see for an hour or they'll call to ask about deposits and hurricanes for an hour. You know which person will wind up booking passage!
fascinating how much debate these casino chips ,let alone EBay sales themselves, have generated on this forum. Going back to something said about Eon not letting anything go and their solicitors ready to pounce, how do firms such as The Propstore, Movie Bits, Prop Warehouse and Propmasters keep going knowing that the legal powers of Eon will drop on them at any time. I've been collecting now since Diamonds Are Forever, (yes I really am that old), and started off with the usual commercial stuff, cars, toys books and such like. It's only since I started hitting Memorobillia at the NEC every year and the advent of the Internet that I began to branch out into rarer items before picking up my first prop. I didn't low out on huge amounts so who knows how genuine they are. having said that I have always sourced from one firm. Now come last October on my retirement my workmates chipped in a brought me an MP5 from DIe Another Day. Looks great with the rest of the collection and yes it does come with the COA, but there again, would I be bothered if it didn't have the COA ? At the end of the day, it was a present, they knew I was into Bond and went to the time and trouble of tracking the item down. So what if it isn't legit ? I haven't paid for it, it's got a COA, so in theory should I want to sell it on, (which I don't), in theory I would have no trouble because of the COA.
fascinating how much debate these casino chips ,let alone EBay sales themselves, have generated on this forum. Going back to something said about Eon not letting anything go and their solicitors ready to pounce, how do firms such as The Propstore, Movie Bits, Prop Warehouse and Propmasters keep going knowing that the legal powers of Eon will drop on them at any time. I've been collecting now since Diamonds Are Forever, (yes I really am that old), and started off with the usual commercial stuff, cars, toys books and such like. It's only since I started hitting Memorobillia at the NEC every year and the advent of the Internet that I began to branch out into rarer items before picking up my first prop. I didn't low out on huge amounts so who knows how genuine they are. having said that I have always sourced from one firm. Now come last October on my retirement my workmates chipped in a brought me an MP5 from DIe Another Day. Looks great with the rest of the collection and yes it does come with the COA, but there again, would I be bothered if it didn't have the COA ? At the end of the day, it was a present, they knew I was into Bond and went to the time and trouble of tracking the item down. So what if it isn't legit ? I haven't paid for it, it's got a COA, so in theory should I want to sell it on, (which I don't), in theory I would have no trouble because of the COA.
Unsure of your country of origin but if you are in the UK?, your MP5 is regarded as an imitation firearm under the VCR act so last October with or without a coa the piece is illegal to buy or sell. As for authenticity on such a piece, stunt weapons as with the weapons they were cast off have serial numbers specific to the particular movie or movies they were utilised on. The production companies & indeed the production armourers keep very detailed records of what was utilised on which movie so even though not all auctioneers go to the trouble of doing so, there are very clear channels available to ascertain the provenance of a piece. Finally the Bond production company made it very clear to all on set that after Die Another Day the practice of "Crew Gifts/Souvenirs" would end. This is the reason you do not see many/any genuine Daniel Craig pieces on the collectors market and therefore when said pieces do surface "they" as in the case of The Floating Dragon plaque/chip set act to recover their properties.
Donk, have we now confirmed it was EON that put an end to the Plaques up for auction on FleaBay?
No, but one has to assume that it was on their radar simply because of what these "properties" are and their policy regarding such items. The fact that the seller has now identified himself as the individual in the photo before the listing was pulled would suggest either an off ebay purchase for big bucks or a Cease & Desist was issued. As far as I am aware previous to this the only pair which have surfaced were at an auction house in Paris, February 2013.
fascinating how much debate these casino chips ,let alone EBay sales themselves, have generated on this forum. Going back to something said about Eon not letting anything go and their solicitors ready to pounce, how do firms such as The Propstore, Movie Bits, Prop Warehouse and Propmasters keep going knowing that the legal powers of Eon will drop on them at any time. I've been collecting now since Diamonds Are Forever, (yes I really am that old), and started off with the usual commercial stuff, cars, toys books and such like. It's only since I started hitting Memorobillia at the NEC every year and the advent of the Internet that I began to branch out into rarer items before picking up my first prop. I didn't low out on huge amounts so who knows how genuine they are. having said that I have always sourced from one firm. Now come last October on my retirement my workmates chipped in a brought me an MP5 from DIe Another Day. Looks great with the rest of the collection and yes it does come with the COA, but there again, would I be bothered if it didn't have the COA ? At the end of the day, it was a present, they knew I was into Bond and went to the time and trouble of tracking the item down. So what if it isn't legit ? I haven't paid for it, it's got a COA, so in theory should I want to sell it on, (which I don't), in theory I would have no trouble because of the COA.
Unsure of your country of origin but if you are in the UK?, your MP5 is regarded as an imitation firearm under the VCR act so last October with or without a coa the piece is illegal to buy or sell. As for authenticity on such a piece, stunt weapons as with the weapons they were cast off have serial numbers specific to the particular movie or movies they were utilised on. The production companies & indeed the production armourers keep very detailed records of what was utilised on which movie so even though not all auctioneers go to the trouble of doing so, there are very clear channels available to ascertain the provenance of a piece. Finally the Bond production company made it very clear to all on set that after Die Another Day the practice of "Crew Gifts/Souvenirs" would end. This is the reason you do not see many/any genuine Daniel Craig pieces on the collectors market and therefore when said pieces do surface "they" as in the case of The Floating Dragon plaque/chip set act to recover their properties.
I am UK and aware of the VCR. however, I am exempt as I became a member of NARES. There is a serial number on it so have all bases covered. Also the piece has been seen by a member of the DAD crew.
NARES: Little tip, if a production company considered an item to be stolen off set & in this case an imitation firearm, being a member of NARES or any other society would not entitle the collector to own such properties or avoid prosecution for possession of such properties regardless of what COA the owner may possess!
Donk, do we know what they went for in Paris, or were they pulled. Also I know the chips were made by Cartamundi but my understanding was the plaques were BetG, what's your take on this?
NARES: Little tip, if a production company considered an item to be stolen off set & in this case an imitation firearm, being a member of NARES or any other society would not entitle the collector to own such properties or avoid prosecution for possession of such properties regardless of what COA the owner may possess!
Thanks for that. Moving on slightly, there was a guy selling what he claims to be a number plate from a BMW 750i from Tomorrow Never Dies recently. Stated that a relative worked on one of the stunt crews which is how he came by it. Strange thing is, he didn't but on EBay as a prop. Instead, he put it on under car registration plates. It didn't sell and has not re-emerged since. I did question him about its authenticity. He did answer but never published the question or reply on EBay. One to be aware of if it comes up again.
until I have one in my hand, I really cannot tell for sure.
However, the lunettes seems to be B&G.
These plaques don't seems to have raised borders - but B&G have done this style before - but ver rarely.
Without the raised borders, the plaques tend to stick to one another.
The thing is, there are no B&G mark on this plaque anywhere that i could see, but again i have only seen photo and low res.
If I got to make a call now - I would say they are B&G plaques because their lunettes are really unique.
Donk, do we know what they went for in Paris, or were they pulled. Also I know the chips were made by Cartamundi but my understanding was the plaques were BetG, what's your take on this?
I'm not a plaque expert & would never claim to be. I believe the Floating Dragon plaques are Cartamundi. They are shown on their website next to the chips & Bondlifestyle visited Cartamundi in Belgium who had a quantity archived. Additionally I believe Danjaq_Off has confirmed who produced them for the production, from the arses mouth!
BTW, Carta Mundi don't have any facilities to make their own chips, let alone plaques.
They mainly make playing cards. Most of their stuffs are sub out. Like the chips, they are all made in China.
Unlike B&G which make all their stuffs internally - in France.
Mmmm interesting. Just to throw another mix in the works, whilst the auction was active I asked the seller about the Plaques and he told me that they had a relief surface exactly the same as the smaller chips. This would tend to lend weight to the premise that they are Cartamundi manufactured, but I'd like Kan to chime in here with his thoughts, I know you haven't actually seen them but have you ever known BetG with an embossed surface?
Comments
Go to any hollywood museum with these claiming they were legit and tell them that you dont have any paperwork but have a good story and other's trusted opinion. They would simply thank you for showing them and then show you to the door. Thats how it is. Ironclad is needed for most collectors but not all. But to claim that the ones who need it are ignorant, well thats ignorance in of itself.
If I have a question re. SD Studios items, I know who to ask.
If I have a question regarding a watch, I am asking myself
And that can be continued
But that's me - telling you to trust person X for item y won't convice you as you prefer paper. You have to learn - sometimes the hard way
It takes some time to,realize that many people here know their thing but I trust this bunch of nuts more than every self-proclaimed expert ( And one of these is a very good example - Dell Deaton anyone?
I have no intention to sell to any Hollywood museum and you'd be surprised how these are filled with dubious items re. Authenticity.
A certificate is only as much worth as the person who issued it.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
it must be a sad existence not trusting anyone
and them Hollywood stores would have no problem buying the chips without paperwork, and then charging you double for a bit of paper that means nothing -{
Personally I don't have any of the problems that we're discussing as I only collect licensed reproduction items (SD & FE) or available commercial items of the same type used in in a Bond production. Talented artisans that frequent this forum have also gifted some locally made reproductions of items not commercially available, if you've ever reproduced any type of prop to the accuracy and quality seen here then you would realise the amount of research and effort that goes into these items, this itself increase ones knowledge of the original items, which is another reason we can be so authoritative where Bond props are concerned. These can range from a genuine 1964 Gillette Razor, a Parker Jotter etc through to a Goldeneye Mine just as an example. Just accept we know our stuff and don't always need papers of authenticity, although it does add to the value of licensed items eg an original SD Golden Gun is worth more to a collector with the accompanying paperwork, but as our resident SD expert will tell you, he can spot a genuine GG from 10 yards away with his eyes closed and doesn't need paper work to tell him it's genuine.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
He must be happy changing diapers - he would love this kind of discussion....
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I mean, there were over 6,000 chips of all denominations supplied to Casino Royale for the main poker scene and the outer room's poker tables alone... would I pay more for the stack of Skyfall black (?) chips DC gets from in front of the cashier with "Good fortune" added...? I dunno.
The best way is to (God help me!) keep your integrity and also befriend like-minded collectors. When someone tells me the story on the phone of how they found a prop for 25 minutes, I feel more certain...
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
All I could provide was a photo.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
And then again, for someone who wasn't you who offered a brief item story, we'd probably shoot the breeze about other Bond things for 25 minutes (if you had time) and then I'd know and so on anyway. You know what I mean?
Unsure of your country of origin but if you are in the UK?, your MP5 is regarded as an imitation firearm under the VCR act so last October with or without a coa the piece is illegal to buy or sell. As for authenticity on such a piece, stunt weapons as with the weapons they were cast off have serial numbers specific to the particular movie or movies they were utilised on. The production companies & indeed the production armourers keep very detailed records of what was utilised on which movie so even though not all auctioneers go to the trouble of doing so, there are very clear channels available to ascertain the provenance of a piece. Finally the Bond production company made it very clear to all on set that after Die Another Day the practice of "Crew Gifts/Souvenirs" would end. This is the reason you do not see many/any genuine Daniel Craig pieces on the collectors market and therefore when said pieces do surface "they" as in the case of The Floating Dragon plaque/chip set act to recover their properties.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
With Certificate! :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, but one has to assume that it was on their radar simply because of what these "properties" are and their policy regarding such items. The fact that the seller has now identified himself as the individual in the photo before the listing was pulled would suggest either an off ebay purchase for big bucks or a Cease & Desist was issued. As far as I am aware previous to this the only pair which have surfaced were at an auction house in Paris, February 2013.
I am UK and aware of the VCR. however, I am exempt as I became a member of NARES. There is a serial number on it so have all bases covered. Also the piece has been seen by a member of the DAD crew.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
However, the lunettes seems to be B&G.
These plaques don't seems to have raised borders - but B&G have done this style before - but ver rarely.
Without the raised borders, the plaques tend to stick to one another.
The thing is, there are no B&G mark on this plaque anywhere that i could see, but again i have only seen photo and low res.
If I got to make a call now - I would say they are B&G plaques because their lunettes are really unique.
http://ourmanfrombondstreet.blogspot.co.uk/
You should be able to link to the French auction site via this chaps blog.
They mainly make playing cards. Most of their stuffs are sub out. Like the chips, they are all made in China.
Unlike B&G which make all their stuffs internally - in France.
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk