Quantum Quandary

Thunderpussy

I think IMHO Eon have missed a chance with Quantum.Giving us a SPECTRE clone,More middleaged men in suits up to no good.When I remember reading that,In an early draft script for TSWLM. a spectre meeting was disrupted by a gang of terrorist types who shot them all, and took their places.Giving us a brand new SPECTRE. I think if QUANTUM had of been made to be more of a terrorist group rather than an organised crime one. It would of been so different from the old spectre that no comparision could of been made between them,and more in keeping with the modern threats in the world.
Fanatics hell bent on world domination or Buisnessmen out to own it,any opinions.

Loeffelholz

I'm not sure I see the quandary. In virtually all your previous posts, you've pretty much equated Quantum of Solace with the Black Death of Middle Ages-era Europe Surely tweaking the nature of the villainous organization wouldn't have possibly had sufficient impact to alter your impression, or change your mind?

At any rate, I'd have to disagree that making Quantum a bunch of people in business suits was a mistake. Surely most of the evil in the world is done by nicely dressed people...Eon is clearly loathe (rightly or wrongly) to directly go after the traditional 'terrorist' motif---i.e., Muslim extremists in turbans and black face masks---and indeed, why bother when you can have well-dressed businessmen moving those fellows around like pawns on a chessboard? In fact, I think this is very much in keeping with the modern threats of the world---moreso now than back when Blofeld had a white cat in his lap!

The key will be whether or not Eon develops the idea any farther from here...for my own part, I think Quantum should be as labyrinthine as the filmmakers have the courage and imagination to make it.

Thunderpussy

I'm over QOS and have moved on,I'm now looking to the future.( no more slagging it of for me. Well mabey a little bit more ).and of course not being American I know that all terrorists are not muslim,In europe we have all kinds,left, right and plain old crazy. IMNO if the producers want to bring the series in to modern times,then modern terrorism is part of it. and I never liked Blofeld's cat, I'm more of a dog person.
The point I'm trying to make in my half arsed way is,the TSWLM idea was a total shake up, out with the old and in with the new, young guys getting rid of the old guard,weather their dressed in suits or jeans dosen't really matter,Just that they are younger and more vicious, not believing in any cause except making money.Not my idea,just one I like and welcome any opinions.As for the Quandary,I was looking for a word that simply looked a bit like Quantum. and I rejected Quagmire as it's my one word review of, QOS

Loeffelholz

Thunderpussy wrote:

not being American I know that all terrorists are not muslim

Hmm yes, those [insert pejorative here] Americans. It's funny...I am American and realize that as well! We have a variety here too, of course.

The discarded TSWLM plot to which you refer is still a good one, as far as I'm concerned, and they can do it anytime---including #23. It would be cool if the old guard of Quantum was thus overthrown and discarded...a capital idea, and not at all a missed opportunity yet. The whole Somali Pirate thing could possibly be utilised as well. Lots of great ideas out there.

Hardyboy

Frankly, I don't think that Quantum are a bunch of guys in suits--we saw the greatest number of them in one place at a performance of Tosca, where formal wear is the order of the day. What I like about Quantum is that so far it DOESN'T seem to be a SPECTRE clone. Where's the Blofeld-like leader? Nowhere to be seen. Where are the evil schemes to hold the world for ransom? Not on the agenda. Instead, it appears that there is no formal leadership--all members have an equal say, and it would logically be the case that if someone dies there are others to take that person's place; and that instead of hatching nefarious plans, these characters infiltrate governments and offer services that will allow others to rise or fall. Quantum is, all told, a pretty unique creation. I'm looking forward to seeing how it will develop.

thesecretagent

I have to say that I find Quantum the first plausible enemy of Bond for - well, ever. People in suits, infiltrating and manipulating governments is as close to our worst fears for reality as it gets. Whereas SPECTRE was basically organised crime, Quantum seem to have taken it a step further. I like the way they had SIS on the hop, with even M's bodyguard ready to play his hand.
My problem with QoS was in (Greene) and his implausibility as a believable villian. His accent was out of Allo Allo and he had no screen presence whatsoever. He was like Le Chiffre's under-achieving little brother. And also, the basis of their government manilulation and organised infiltration was to achieve a rather underwhelming aim.
I looked forward to seeing Quantum again, but also hope their next audacious plan is a little more than a water utilities scam. My own water company hits me with the highest water rates in Britain as it is, and I go to see a film for escapism.

Number24

It would be completely wrong to have a "revolution" in Quantom now. We are just starting to know them, and finding out who they are and what they are up to is still exiting.

Thunderpussy

I agree a revolution in Quantum ain't going to happen,I'm just saying the producers missed a chance at doing something different. Instead of making them SPECTRE Mark 2, They could of made them a completely different group.
Perhaps Bond could find out that Quantum was behind the fall of the western banking system and now had entered stage two,The failure of the rescue plan,So their backers a group of mega rich ex-kgb types would now not have to invade the west but could simply buy it at a discount price.A prime example of Economic Terrorism.

Hardyboy

Thunderpussy wrote:

I'm just saying the producers missed a chance at doing something different. Instead of making them SPECTRE Mark 2, They could of made them a completely different group.

So, did thesecretagent and I make no dent in your argument? We both offered some pretty good evidence that Quantum ISN'T "SPECTRE Mark 2." Oh, well. . .

Thunderpussy

I was merly answering Number24,Whom I thought, Thought that I was asking for a change in the Quantum format.. It would seem that some people just can't wait to be offended, SOME BIG EGOS On this forum.Once again I have to apologise for having a different opinion, I listen to all views but some do seem to think of themselves as the only true voice of all things Bond. In Your opinion (and others Quantum is not SPECTRE mark 2) which I fully accept.
On the other hand scouting for Bolfeld has ( if the rumors are correct ) already begun. I'll leave it to time to see which opinion was correct. But in the intrest of goodwill I'll recant my thoughts about Quantum and instead think of them ( as monty python say) as Completly Different.

Loeffelholz

Thunderpussy wrote:

It would seem that some people just can't wait to be offended, SOME BIG EGOS On this forum.

Yes---that's it, of course.

SpectreBlofeld

Wasn't SPECTRE a 'bunch of guys in suits' anyway? Emelio Largo and the like?

Hardyboy

Thunderpussy wrote:

It would seem that some people just can't wait to be offended, SOME BIG EGOS On this forum.Once again I have to apologise for having a different opinion, I listen to all views but some do seem to think of themselves as the only true voice of all things Bond. In Your opinion (and others Quantum is not SPECTRE mark 2) which I fully accept.

Cripes. . .lighten up. Did I ask for an apology for anything? No. Did I ask you to change your opinion? No. Was I offended and throwing my ego around? Well, despite what you apparently think, NO. You seemed to merely repeat what you'd written earlier, so I asked if we had any effect at all on what you thought. That's it. Yes indeed, it seems some people really can't wait to be offended.

Infernorhythm

Except Quantum is NOT a SPECTRE clone/stand in. I have an immense issue of problems with QoS, mostly because it had great ideas but poor direction and editing left those rushed, or hardly explained. I already made a post on why Quantum is unique and better than SPECTRE, and I think I'll quote it here, if that's okay.

I've noticed a lot of discussions on different Bond websites comparing Quantum to SPECTRE. Much of the conversation is that Quantum is nothing more than a SPECTRE expy, and if they had the rights, they would have called it SPECTRE. For me, that doesn't really work.

I have to applaud the filmmakers for making a far superior evil organization.

With all respects to Fleming, SPECTRE isn't really that great of an evil organization. If I recall, the Thunderball novel established that SPECTRE was far from a permanent organization, instead it was a one-off or short run operation. When the ransom plan failed, they split up. Blofeld went on to private run operations, at Piz Gloria and later Japan. SPECTRE was really nothing more than a plan, not so much an organization, concocted by a collection of villainous groups. Of course, in the films, SPECTRE lasted much longer, and was a far more permanent organization. An interesting thing about SPECTRE was how open they were. They were very much in the open, with public ransoms and operations.

Quantum on the other hand is far more devious, and IMHO, far scarier. They're a permanent group, and QoS gave the impression that they have been around for a while. They're CEOs and politicians, movers and shakers secretly exploiting nations and organizations for their own profit. One of the greatest ideas from QoS, even if it was never extrapolated on like so many of the concepts in it, was that Quantum would take different nations, use them, and then pretty much cast them aside when they were done. Haiti vs. Bolivia was a great idea. And they worked in secret. It was a brilliant idea, the secret back door deals and intimidation that made international decisions.

SPECTRE was a plot that got stretched into an organization by EON Films, but really never worked beyond their initial literary purpose. Quantum though, that is a genius, creepy idea that works very well with the modern Bond. I have a ton of problems with QoS, but I do hope the producers bring back Quantum again in some form in later films, because the concept is too good to abandon.

Thunderpussy

"So,Did thesecretagent and I make No dent in your argument ?" This statment would make me think that it's the old school boy "I'm right, Your wrong " argument. OH WELL ............
Ending a statment with a question mark usually leads one to believe a response is requested.Which I did,Obviously it wasn't the one required as it did not immediatly say his opinion was the correct one,Although the term evidence is used.
What we have here is a simple difference of Opinions ,Not a difference in Evidence. As neither one of us is a producer of the movies.OUR Opinions don't amount to a hill of beans.
This forum is a small pond and there are some big fish in it,so naturaly Human nature being what it is,Some will begin to believe that they are some sort of keepers of the one true faith. Leading to the big ego syndrome. e.g. "My way or the highway"
It is amazing how seriously some take their opinions and are willing to get into arguments about them.After all the elite of the forum have known each other for a long time so will gather round to back-up their friends,just like the old school days. I don't expect to get any support for this opinion as it is a clique.
So far all I've remarked on is that In My Opinion Quantum is Spectre, If it's the Mark 2 statement that so offends then how about,
SPECTRE LIGHT, SPECTRE ONE CAL, SPECTRE SUGAR FREE, or NEW IMPROVED SPECTRE.
As I put it in my last post I fully retract my last statment and now Truly believe that Quantum Is Not Spectre and is a totally diffrent organisation to Spectre any similarity is purley coincidental Forever and ever Amen .

thesecretagent

Sometimes when you make a post you don't always get the response you wanted. I should know, I've had three or four closed by the mods. But that, IMO, makes a good post, when passions run deep and opinion is split so decidedly. Personally I am in no one's clique. I just respond to a thread I'm interested in and risk disagreeing with the people who make the post.

Mister White

Interesting viewpoint there.

thesecretagent wrote:

Sometimes when you make a post you don't always get the response you wanted. I should know, I've had three or four closed by the mods. But that, IMO, makes a good post, when passions run deep and opinion is split so decidedly. Personally I am in no one's clique. I just respond to a thread I'm interested in and risk disagreeing with the people who make the post.

Now I am always happy to agree or disagree with people on their personal taste, and I welcome any kind of discussion. Also I am familliar with posts not getting the response I wanted.

But what I was just curious about is in what way you view the following as a good post, opening up a discussion?

thesecretagent wrote:

I'm sorry, did my f**king eyes deceive me? I'm sharing a Bond website with people who read Dr. Who magazine? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

thesecretagent

Hah! Got me there!

thesecretagent

Mister White wrote:

Interesting viewpoint there.

thesecretagent wrote:

Sometimes when you make a post you don't always get the response you wanted. I should know, I've had three or four closed by the mods. But that, IMO, makes a good post, when passions run deep and opinion is split so decidedly. Personally I am in no one's clique. I just respond to a thread I'm interested in and risk disagreeing with the people who make the post.

Now I am always happy to agree or disagree with people on their personal taste, and I welcome any kind of discussion. Also I am familliar with posts not getting the response I wanted.

But what I was just curious about is in what way you view the following as a good post, opening up a discussion?

thesecretagent wrote:

I'm sorry, did my f**king eyes deceive me? I'm sharing a Bond website with people who read Dr. Who magazine? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Actually I should have said thread, and not post. I have had several threads shut down by the mods. Not bad threads, just thought provoking/controversial which have prompted heated exchanges between other members, not myself. The quote you provided from another subject (??!!??) above was just me trying to inject some humour into a very sad thread. In future, I will stick to subjects that interest me (ie Bond on this site), and not comment on subjects for little boys.

Lexi

thesecretagent wrote:

Mister White wrote:

Interesting viewpoint there.

thesecretagent wrote:

Sometimes when you make a post you don't always get the response you wanted. I should know, I've had three or four closed by the mods. But that, IMO, makes a good post, when passions run deep and opinion is split so decidedly. Personally I am in no one's clique. I just respond to a thread I'm interested in and risk disagreeing with the people who make the post.

Now I am always happy to agree or disagree with people on their personal taste, and I welcome any kind of discussion. Also I am familliar with posts not getting the response I wanted.

But what I was just curious about is in what way you view the following as a good post, opening up a discussion?

thesecretagent wrote:

I'm sorry, did my f**king eyes deceive me? I'm sharing a Bond website with people who read Dr. Who magazine? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Actually I should have said thread, and not post. I have had several threads shut down by the mods. Not bad threads, just thought provoking/controversial which have prompted heated exchanges between other members, not myself. The quote you provided from another subject (??!!??) above was just me trying to inject some humour into a very sad thread. In future, I will stick to subjects that interest me (ie Bond on this site), and not comment on subjects for little boys.

Ooooooh, yowza........but hey, don't forget us little girls too

....and sad? Really....... ???

Napoleon Plural

The thing about Quantum is that they're underwritten, not because they're so shadowy and unknown methinks, but because no one really has figured out among the scriptwriters what they're supposed to represent yet. They're hedging their bets.

cdsdss

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think IMHO Eon have missed a chance with Quantum.Giving us a SPECTRE clone,More middleaged men in suits up to no good.When I remember reading that,In an early draft script for TSWLM. a spectre meeting was disrupted by a gang of terrorist types who shot them all, and took their places.Giving us a brand new SPECTRE. I think if QUANTUM had of been made to be more of a terrorist group rather than an organised crime one. It would of been so different from the old spectre that no comparision could of been made between them,and more in keeping with the modern threats in the world.
Fanatics hell bent on world domination or Buisnessmen out to own it,any opinions.

cdsdss

I dunno...after the economic meltdown of 2008, in which businessmen in suits managed to walk away Scot-free while the free market damn near collapsed, I'm more than ready to believe in guys like Quantum who represent nothing but sheer atavistic greed.

Red Indian

I second what cdsdss wrote.

I thought the Quantum organization was quite realistic. "Money makes the world go 'round" and it is abundantly clear that financial power trumps "Government."

Those who control the most precious resources are the ones pulling the strings. A corporation like BP can destroy the environment and ruin countless lives but we don't really hear anymore about that do we? I guess the Gulf Coast is all fixed!

How about The Federal Reserve here in the U.S? Who do they answer to? Our Congress is the best money can buy! Wars continue to be started over one thing - money.

Where is Bond???