NSNA Should Replace Thunderball
TheScashMan
Posts: 111MI6 Agent
Eon should strike a deal with Orion and swap Thunderball with Never Say Never Again. That way, this far superior outing gets it's rightful place in the franchise.
Whilst NSNA is not the best of Connery's portrayals as Bond, it is certainly much better than Thunderball.
A comparison:
* The opening scene at the health club:
Thunderball: This is probably the best scene in the entire film, but unfortunately doesn't get any better. Yes, there are some entertaining moments with Bond seducing one of the workers, and when he locks that villian in the pod, but it fails in a really good duel. 6/10.
NSNA: The opening here is much more exciting, and we get an excellent fight scene that starts at the gym and sprawls through the health club itself. The henchman is dominating, and the fight does Connery credit. Connery generally does good fight scenes, and his age does not slow him down here. I only wish that this scene lasted longer, as it was a little on the short side. 8/10
* The sharks
Thunderball: The sharks never really interacted with Bond, making them a waste. Their prescence makes some impact, but, alas, they just weren't utilised effectively. 4/10
NSNA: We get a great scene dedicated to Bond vs a shark, and it's pretty exciting. 7/10
* Entertainment factor
Thunderball: This film dragged on, and on.... and on. Too much underwater shots and little action for much of the film. The end scenes with Connery fighting underwater and then on the boat were somewhat enjoyable, but had moments of stupidity via the sped-up scenes, that spoiled it somewhat. 4/10
NSNA: From the motorbike chase to Connery throwing Rowan Atkinson in the swimming pool at the end, NSNA was a fun romp throughout. 6/10.
*Overall ratings:
Thunderball 4/10
NSNA 6.5/10
Summary: Eon should strike a deal with Orion to replace Thunderball with NSNA, and make NSNA the official entry in the franchise (until such a time when hopefully all films are re-made so that Sir Rog can take his leading role once more -{ )
Whilst NSNA is not the best of Connery's portrayals as Bond, it is certainly much better than Thunderball.
A comparison:
* The opening scene at the health club:
Thunderball: This is probably the best scene in the entire film, but unfortunately doesn't get any better. Yes, there are some entertaining moments with Bond seducing one of the workers, and when he locks that villian in the pod, but it fails in a really good duel. 6/10.
NSNA: The opening here is much more exciting, and we get an excellent fight scene that starts at the gym and sprawls through the health club itself. The henchman is dominating, and the fight does Connery credit. Connery generally does good fight scenes, and his age does not slow him down here. I only wish that this scene lasted longer, as it was a little on the short side. 8/10
* The sharks
Thunderball: The sharks never really interacted with Bond, making them a waste. Their prescence makes some impact, but, alas, they just weren't utilised effectively. 4/10
NSNA: We get a great scene dedicated to Bond vs a shark, and it's pretty exciting. 7/10
* Entertainment factor
Thunderball: This film dragged on, and on.... and on. Too much underwater shots and little action for much of the film. The end scenes with Connery fighting underwater and then on the boat were somewhat enjoyable, but had moments of stupidity via the sped-up scenes, that spoiled it somewhat. 4/10
NSNA: From the motorbike chase to Connery throwing Rowan Atkinson in the swimming pool at the end, NSNA was a fun romp throughout. 6/10.
*Overall ratings:
Thunderball 4/10
NSNA 6.5/10
Summary: Eon should strike a deal with Orion to replace Thunderball with NSNA, and make NSNA the official entry in the franchise (until such a time when hopefully all films are re-made so that Sir Rog can take his leading role once more -{ )
Comments
But in the end I concluded that it was simply the Domino/Fiona affect. Powerful contents.
BTW, here's the motorbike clip dubbed with David Arnold's score.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cyp3PEcLO0
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I think Thunderball was a pitiful excuse for a Bond film, as detailed in my OP, and I am certain had Fleming been alive to witness it he would have been disgusted!
Thought not.
To be honest, this post surprises me. I mean, if you are such a Moore fan why would you hail NSNA, the film that was released to complete with 1983's Octopussy, which I believe you hailed as one of his best in another thread.
Actually, NSNA is no where near as good as Octopussy, so there is no competition. Any film that pits Sir Rog against another leading actor is always going to lose out (in favour of Moore).
And NSNA deserves credit in it's own right for being a better interpretation of the novel than the original Thunderball. However, if/when Moore ever reprises the role, HIS version will be the best. No doubt about that.
Scash, have you talked to Moore about all the work you are planning for him. I mean he may look like he is in his 40s but he damn well isn't. Do you think he's up for several more Bond outings?
I remember very clearly waiting in line at the cinema to purchase my ticket for NSNA. I was tired of Roger Moore's character assassination of my hero and I was ready for the return of the "real" Bond. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered that Never Say Never Again was just a poor remake of a fine film.
What makes NSNA so weak?
For starters, the characterizations. With the exception of Max von Sydow's Blofeld, Connery's Bond is significantly older than every other character in the film. Instead of a Sean Connery in his prime we have an aging, tired, "deactivated" 007 at odds with his too young, snobbish, pompous boss, M. Edward Fox's portrayal is that of a stodgy bureaucrat, more interested in keeping his upper lip appropriately stiff than in solving a deadly crisis. Bernard Lee's M from Thunderball captures Fleming's iron-haired clear eyed admiral perfectly. Lee's M supports Bond instead of scolding him and tutting around the office like an old hen.
Klaus Maria Brandauer's boyish Max Largo isn't in the least menacing. He looks as though Kim Basinger could have kicked his butt at any moment. He is way too small opposite Connery's 6' 4" frame and never seems to posess any real threat potential. Adolpho Celli's much larger Emilio Largo with his eye patch and casual cruelty is a much more threatening character.
Barbara Carerra's Fatima Blush is certainly deadly but the psychotic glee she takes in her murders makes her seem laughably crazy. Luciana Paluzzi's Fiona Volpe is far deadlier with her icy control and smoldering beauty.
Kim Basinger's "dumb blonde" is not nearly as appealing as Claudine Auger's vulnerable Domino.
Story handling. Lorenzo Semple Jr.'s screenplay is so full of holes that he loses touch with his characters completely. Instead of presenting us with truly deadly villains we are given a Largo/Fatima who behave more like psychotic children than professional criminals. And whenever Semple writes himself into a corner his only way out is to give Bond a gadget.
Bond is trapped near the docks, put rockets on his motor cycle. When Fatima has him cornered and seemingly disarmed, have Bond shoot her with his fountain pen. When Bond can't reach some inaccessible spot that the villains have reached, give 007 a weird, rocket powered personal transport that looks like it was stolen from a Dick Tracy comic.
Although Thunderball contains its share of gadgets they never replace Bond's brain. The pre-title sequence jet pack, the motor driven underwater back pack and the Aston Martin's water cannons are punctuation marks on the scenes they are featured in, not convenient plot hole fillers.
NSNA ends with one of the lamest scenes in Bond history. Instead of the classic final threat that Bond has to dispose of we are treated to Bond dunking the bumbling Nigel into the swimming pool. In Thunderball we get a breathtaking airlift that, when I first saw it looked like the coolest thing ever put on film. (Granted, that was a long time ago.)
Finally, Thunderball has attained a classic status that NSNA will never have. TB is one of the gilt-edged Bonds. While it is certainly not the best film in the series, it is far better written and performed than the remake. Plus TB has more of a Fleming "flavor" than the other film. This opinion is of course completely subjective but for me TB has a far better "feel" to it than the limp wristed overly comical NSNA with its hamfisted writing and direction.
On my Bond menu, Thunderball is a Filet Mignon, NSNA is hamburger helper.
And please for the love of God and man, don't bring back Roger Moore.
and I think we are missing the best part of TB and that is Claudine Auger much much better than Kim Bassinger.
www.007jamesbond.dk
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A much better argument would be to suggest that NSNA should be added to the canon. I disagree with this contention, but it would be the proper one to make.
Absolutely ! I'm agree with your analysis. I said the same since a long time but the French forums don't want understand.
I agree completely. Especially in regard to the way NSNA ends. I have to admit the ending seemed totally foreign to the way Bond would normally act according to his character. At the end of each movie Bond carries on his love affair with his current ladyfriend until he eventually has had enough and says good-bye to her (offscreen) all ready for the next one he meets. Except of course OHMSS, where he genuinely fell in love, married and would have settled down had she not been murdered on their honeymoon.
But in NSNA he seems determined to spend the rest of his life in a de-facto implied relationship with Domino and vows to give up being 007 despite M's pleadings through Nigel. I can't imagine this portrayal of Bond ever being talked into coming back for YOLT.
NSNA is okay as a stand alone remake of Thunderball, and possibly Fleming may have liked it better, but it can never replace it.
I don't dislike NSNA at all and would never argue that it isn't a better film than TB but for me, TB will always be a million miles ahead in my own popularity ratings for so many reasons including its links with my childhood, the starring role for the Avro Vulcan (an aircraft my Dad spent 12 years on and whose beauty and magnificence he instilled in me), Palmyra, Domino, Fiona Volpe, Adolfo Celi, the DB5 and the jetpack. I like NSNA a lot, but the one overriding highlight of it for me is Nigel Small-Fawcett.
Now, if you could include his nasally plummy "Mister Bond"s into Thunderball, you'd have the perfect Bond!