If Ian Fleming was alive today do you think he would be satisfied...

JimmyBond0129

...With the way his literary character was portrayed on the silver screen? The last Bond film he ever saw was From Russia With Love and he was satisfied with it despite the fact that it wasn't as dark as the original book. I think if Fleming had lived to see Goldfinger and Thunderball he would've been satisfied with those films too.

But Ian Fleming probably would've been disappointed with You Only Live Twice just like he was with Dr. No and every Bond film post On Her Majesty's Secret Service would've been "Absolutely dreadful," at least until The Living Daylights and Licence to Kill came along.

Loeffelholz

As I've said previously, I think Fleming would be delighted that his character has been portrayed in 24 films (22 Eon productions, plus CR '67 and NSNA)---and that the last two pictures alone had grossed $1 billion at the box office...and as a result, I'd imagine that he'd be inclined to ask for a renegotiation of his original sale price for the film rights

There are some films that I think would have disappointed him, but on the whole I think he'd be very proud. Bond has come a long way from being "the most boring name I've ever heard," the name of an obscure ornithologist... :007)

thesecretagent

I think Ian Fleming would have liked elements of most of what has been filmed. There are many weird and quirky things in his novels that thankfully stayed off the screen, and I don't think the franchise would have been so succesful if they had made it to the screen either. I think he would have been disappointed with Craig and the turn the new films have made, but then again he would be an old codger by now anyway.

zaphod

What a good question. I think a number of responses likely. Fleming wanted success so I think he would be amazed and proud that his creation has flourished in the way it has as a commercial proposition. I think that he would have liked some films more than others, with a predisposition to those who which stuck closest to his brief. Similarly with the actors who played Bond. We know what he thought of Connerry (outrage at first turning into reluctant acceptance) It's worth noting that the acceptance came after the success.
I think that he would have been happy enough with the choice of Actors although I think he would have found Roger lacking in physicality/danger. I think initally Craig would have appalled him, as a jumoed up squaddie, but after the huge success he would have come around. Dalton would be my bet for his favourite Bond so far...

007

zaphod wrote:

What a good question. I think a number of responses likely. Fleming wanted success so I think he would be amazed and proud that his creation has flourished in the way it has as a commercial proposition. I think that he would have liked some films more than others, with a predisposition to those who which stuck closest to his brief. Similarly with the actors who played Bond. We know what he thought of Connerry (outrage at first turning into reluctant acceptance) It's worth noting that the acceptance came after the success.
I think that he would have been happy enough with the choice of Actors although I think he would have found Roger lacking in physicality/danger. I think initally Craig would have appalled him, as a jumoed up squaddie, but after the huge success he would have come around. Dalton would be my bet for his favourite Bond so far...

I second that - I think Dalton too - and i think Dalton is the closest to the cartoon image of Bond.

thesecretagent

I think Dalton is the best Bond image by far. He is tough enough, swarve enough, handsome in a rugged way, well-heeled, the right age - and I think Dalton gives a good performance considering the scripts, direction and polish the films lacked. It's a shame Dalton didn't do a couple more.

Mister Greene

i have a feeling that he would have been pleased to an extent but would not approved of getting too far away from the books. and I seriously believe that Moonraker would have been a great disappointment to him like it was to most of us

thegoldengunguy

I think he would have been pleased with some. Probably not Goldfinger though perhaps Thunderball. I think he would have approved of the darker and more realistic films. Particularly the Dalton and Craig films.

On the other hand had he not died when he did I'm not so sure he could have sat through Moonraker without going up in flames!

stjimmy456

I'm sure From Russia With Love (which I think he saw anyway ?) would have remained his favourite even if he had seen all 22 -- assuming that he would have preferred the films which were the most faithful.

However, I'm sure he would have loved The Spy Who Loved Me as well, which is quite different in style from the way he wrote the book.

Personally, if I were him, I'd just be so chuffed that so many of millions of people wanted to see films based on my work, that I'd be just as anxious and excited as the rest of the fans everytime they made another one B-) -- I doubt I'd be complaining with the amount of publicity and money I'd be getting also -{ (Well, I might have had a word about Die Another Day).

hegottheboot

I think OHMSS would have flabbergasted him. George and Tim both have that sense of the book Bond in that, you can see them sitting in the office going through paperwork and not liking it for a moment. He would have understood the turn in the 1970's to appeal to popular culture and the slow return to realism in the 1980's. What would have most bothered him is the lack of depth in the modern outings.
We really need some gratuitous sex and violence!!

Donald Grant

I think Fleming was interested in success. The charachter he created went through many permutations while in development hell, even before Saltzman and Cubby got their hands on it. Although not initially happy with Connery as the choice for Bond, Fleming came to see that he was indeed the right choice for the time. I don't think Fleming would have been happy with all of the Bond movies, however I think he would have been happy with the overall success of the character and the franchise.

DG

Thunderpussy

As fleming had Cary Grany or David Niven in mind for Bond I think DC wouldn't of been his choice, and given the anti-american feel of QOS I can't see Fleming liking that.

Ricardo C.

He didn't even like the first two films he saw. I sincerly doubt he would have enjoyed the other 20. Still, he would have been more than happy to see the character still exist, though probably not perserved to his ideals.

Thunderbird 2

There is no way of knowing, but I agree with those who say Fleming would be pleased with the legacy of Bond, while probably not be satisfied with the films himself.

I say that because firstly, Fleming himself was a man of his era. Movie Bond has adapted, evolved and most recently with CR "rebooted" to match the present climate the film is selling to. There are a lot of things in this day and age Fleming would not be happy about. Movie Bond reflects some of those things.

This issue is not just one raised by Ian Fleming. Every time a writer's successful work in one format is taken on by someone else in an another, this question is raised. There has been talk of the next Trek film being much darker in tone. I doubt Gene Roddenberry would be happy about that, ruining his "a better future and a better mankind" ethos of the future. However, dramatically it may be very successful. Another example, to use a childhood favorite, the late Rev W Awdry publicly cited his disdain for how his The Railway Series concept was twisted when the tv producers of Thomas the Tank Engine started making up their own original episodes from season 5, once they ran out of material from his (and his son Christopher's) original books. - The new material made it clear the producers had failed to understand how the narrative of the concept worked.

We will never know for certain, but creative control is and always will be, a minefield in the arts.

The Domino Effect

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

Every time a writer's successful work in one format is taken on by someone else in an another, this question is raised. There has been talk of the next Trek film being much darker in tone. I doubt Gene Roddenberry would be happy about that, ruining his "a better future and a better mankind" ethos of the future. However, dramatically it may be very successful. Another example, to use a childhood favorite, the late Rev W Awdry publicly cited his disdain for how his The Railway Series concept was twisted when the tv producers of Thomas the Tank Engine started making up their own original episodes from season 5, once they ran out of material from his (and his son Christopher's) original books. - The new material made it clear the producers had failed to understand how the narrative of the concept worked.

We will never know for certain, but creative control is and always will be, a minefield in the arts.

Absolutely true...and you can add Graham Greene and John le Carre to a very long list of authors/creators unhappy with film adaptations of their work. There was someone within the past few years who completely disowned a production and refused to do any publicity work for it. As he was contractually bound to do so, the producers and the author eventually settled for him not to do any publicity...but not to slam the movie publicly either! I can't remember who it was though, I'm afraid.

As for Fleming, it really is a very difficult question because times are very different now and Bond could not possibly have remained as he penned it half a century ago. It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Ricardo C.

The Domino Effect wrote:

It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

thesecretagent

Ricardo C. wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

He did. It was his first draft, but the publishers didn't like it. It was called You only live once...

Ricardo C.

thesecretagent wrote:

Ricardo C. wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

He did. It was his first draft, but the publishers didn't like it. It was called You only live once...

*cricket sounds*

Heckler: GET OFF THE STAGE !

thesecretagent

I'll get my coat...

perdogg

thesecretagent wrote:

Ricardo C. wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

He did. It was his first draft, but the publishers didn't like it. It was called You only live once...

I am not saying I don't believe you, but do you have a source for this?

Ricardo C.

perdogg wrote:

thesecretagent wrote:

Ricardo C. wrote:

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

He did. It was his first draft, but the publishers didn't like it. It was called You only live once...

I am not saying I don't believe you, but do you have a source for this?

Heh Heh. He was joking "dogg".

perdogg

I think Fleming would be appauld at the anti-americanism in QoS and the political correctness in the Bond movies since TLD.

I also think he would be appauld at "texas Holdem" poker in CR. Bond plays Shemmy - not poker.

Ricardo C.

perdogg wrote:

I think Fleming would be appauld at the anti-americanism in QoS and the political correctness in the Bond movies since TLD.

I also think he would be appauld at "texas Holdem" poker in CR. Bond plays Shemmy - not poker.

I think you would enjoy the following article on Casino Royale quite hilarous:

http://n007.thegoldeneye.com/two_views_casino_royale.html

perdogg

Thank you so much I really enjoyed the article. The writer is dead on!!!

Ricardo C.

perdogg wrote:

Thank you so much I really enjoyed the article. The writer is dead on!!!

I only disagree with him about Craig; He's my secound favorite but the films have been a different story. Also if you enjoy that one, check out the Quantum of Solace review.

perdogg

Ricardo C. wrote:

perdogg wrote:

Thank you so much I really enjoyed the article. The writer is dead on!!!

I only disagree with him about Craig; He's my secound favorite but the films have been a different story. Also if you enjoy that one, check out the Quantum of Solace review.

I did )

http://n007.thegoldeneye.com/qos-film_review.html

“Quantum Of Solace is the worst Bond film to date and certainly one of the dumbest movies made in the last five years. The story is completely muddled—a profound, disjointed, meaningless uninvolving narrative—and the entire approach to the film is schizophrenic. From the outset, as reports uncovered the troubled script development, the filmmakers never truly had a focused idea. The final outcome is a voice struggling to be heard, drowned in the loud voices of disparate styles and intentions.”

“Even more disturbing: just as in Casino Royale, the Bond in Quantum Of Solace is calculated to draw the widest possible demographics, a Universal Bond if you will, one who abandons the iconic playboy lifestyle of James Bond in favor of an effeminate metrosexual persona—devoid of virility, Action Bondson is, in a sense, emasculated to appease feminists, to accord with political correctness, and, on another level, to appeal to gay audiences; yet as an uncouth thug, he also plays straight into the sentiment of a world that, perhaps more vulgar and crass than ever, can no longer remember the concept of “debonair.””

Ricardo C.

perdogg wrote:

Ricardo C. wrote:

perdogg wrote:

Thank you so much I really enjoyed the article. The writer is dead on!!!

I only disagree with him about Craig; He's my secound favorite but the films have been a different story. Also if you enjoy that one, check out the Quantum of Solace review.

I did )

http://n007.thegoldeneye.com/qos-film_review.html

“Quantum Of Solace is the worst Bond film to date and certainly one of the dumbest movies made in the last five years. The story is completely muddled—a profound, disjointed, meaningless uninvolving narrative—and the entire approach to the film is schizophrenic. From the outset, as reports uncovered the troubled script development, the filmmakers never truly had a focused idea. The final outcome is a voice struggling to be heard, drowned in the loud voices of disparate styles and intentions.”

“Even more disturbing: just as in Casino Royale, the Bond in Quantum Of Solace is calculated to draw the widest possible demographics, a Universal Bond if you will, one who abandons the iconic playboy lifestyle of James Bond in favor of an effeminate metrosexual persona—devoid of virility, Action Bondson is, in a sense, emasculated to appease feminists, to accord with political correctness, and, on another level, to appeal to gay audiences; yet as an uncouth thug, he also plays straight into the sentiment of a world that, perhaps more vulgar and crass than ever, can no longer remember the concept of “debonair.””

Quantum of Solace was definetly the epileptic Bond; If the editor was payed by the cut then he would never have to work again in his life, or his grandchildren. I don't understand what Marc Forster was trying to do here, he directed like a 16 year old who watched Batman Begins too many times. The camera is constantly cutting to one tight shot and you register nothing. I would have liked to actually watch the bloody action scenes if Forster aloud me. When I say this I am sadly encompasing the whole movie here. For example when that girl was serving drinks on the plane to Greene and Co., why did the camera keep shifting to her and what she was doing ? That's half of the problems, the other one is the story and characters. Dominque Greene is one of the biggest non-entities in Bond history; Who was he ? The Quantum middle man ? I suppose he was in charge of the evil "steal the water" plot but why him ? Was someone else sick at Quantum and he had fill-in at the last minute ? Nothing about Greene is interesting, all he does his sit around in the background and barking orders at men who, on average, are two feet taller then him. Also what in God's name was Elvis ? Was he Greene's butt-buddy ? He only did two things, fall down the stairs and then fire a gun.

I can go on for a very long time. The only plusses was Daniel Craig in this film and the element of revenge was handled more maturely then Die-Hard Bond back in 1989.

Oh one last thing, when James fired into the gunbarrel, the audience was laughing at the theatre I attended. It was rushed and really silly so no wonder; It's like if James Bond was so digusted in the film he was in and the gun he fired at was in the hands of Marc Forster.

thesecretagent

Thunderpussy will be along shortly... :v

Thunderpussy

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Secretagent you know me so well. ) Just happy to feel I'm no longer the only decenting voice,But I'm staying out of this one, and let some of the others take the flack from the QOS fans.

Ricardo C.

Ricardo C. wrote:

The Domino Effect wrote:

It must also be remembered that although Fleming loved Bond, he was growing rather tired of him towards the end of his own life. Therefore, had he lived, he may not have been quite so defensive about recent adaptations as we all might think.

Now I have heard something along those lines but the impression I gathered is he really could not come up with anymore stories. Personally I think it would been terrific if Fleming had killed Bond in You Only Live Twice.

Okay so I looked up how Fleming regarded the future of James Bond when he was writing Golden Gun. He did say that it was going to be last Bond because he felt he ran of ideas.

Hannibal_Smith

As something of an international politics nerd, in response to the statement that "Fleming would be appalled by the antiamericanism in QOS;"

You might be surprised. From what I've read by him, Fleming's more than a little iffy about the United States. Okay, no surprise there; no superpower likes to be replaced. But what really surprised me when reading "For Your Eyes Only" was how hostile he was to American backed dictators like Batista (portrayed as a Nazi sympathizer and a Mafia thug), and the fact that he actually seems to have more sympathy for Castro's side of the struggle. I think there's also a line in Golden Gun to the effect that if the Americans would just ease up on Castro, "all the steam would let out of the little man."

It's not at all what I expected from Fleming, but it's there. And there are some echoes of it Quantum of Solace.