Palmyra And The Sea Wall In 2000

Donald Grant

Here are some pictures I took in 2000 while in Nassau, Bahamas on my honeymoon. I was fortunate enough to get access to the grounds of Rock Point (Palmyra in Thunderball). The interior was off limits, but it did not matter to me because the movie interiors were sets shot in England. If you look carefully at the main pool, you'll see inverted roundells on each of the corners. These were covered up for movie by shallow rectangular boxes painted to look like cement that helped to disguise the metal plates that later covers the pool when Bond fights a SPECTRE thug. It makes the pool very short. You can see Bond walk across the box at the far end of the pool when he visits Palmyra for lunch. That end of the pool contains round stairs at each of the corners. In fact, the June 1965 issue of Esquire Magazine with Connery on the cover has a sketch of the round stairs at the corners of the main pool. The overall grounds were in good condition but both the main pool and the shark pool were in dis-repair.

Donald Grant

More.

Shark Pool.




Grounds.






Grounds Keeper.


Main Pool Area Looking Seaward.


The Sea Wall, Paradise Island, Atlantis Grounds.

qbvi

Hey Rick
Thanks for the pics.
I was in Nassau a few days ago but did not have time to go to Palmyra. Lucky you..I always wanted to see the grounds. Did a whole lot of other Bond things tho' in Nassau for TB and NSN. Now in Miami for last few days for the GF bit.
Thanks for sharing the pics. Rgds, S

Donald Grant

qbvi wrote:

Hey Rick
Thanks for the pics.

I was in Nassau a few days ago but did not have time to go to Palmyra. Lucky you..I always wanted to see the grounds. Did a whole lot of other Bond things tho' in Nassau for TB and NSN. Now in Miami for last few days for the GF bit.
Thanks for sharing the pics. Rgds, S

My Pleasure Sid. It was the Mantis and his recent podcast that caused me to dig these out.

Just got back from Florida myself. However I was in Orlando doing the Disney thing with the family. I need a vacation from my vacation if you know what I mean. Two kids and lots of attractions can run you ragged. I've been to Miami on many occasions, and one of those times I stayed at the Fontainbleu. I found the place shoddy and the service very poor. However, I hear since the renovation it's fantastic. Must try it again.

Keeping your vacation Bondian I see, good for you. Enjoy yourself!

DG

Disco Volante

Great photos - I had my honeymoon in Nassau in 2003 but wasn't into Bond as much then as I am now. But, the wife wants to go back to Atlantis with the kids now so may get the chance next time!

THA-NATURAL

Hey Donald i'm not sure if you noticed but there seems to be something wrong with your camara there is this black dot covering all the face of the people in the pictures might want to get that checked out if you haven't already ).

Nice pictures though haha.

Donald Grant

One More.

The Bond Experience

This is great stuff!!!

Donald Grant

The Mantis wrote:

This is great stuff!!!

Thanks Mantis. It was your pod cast with the usual suspects that prompted me to dig these out. Based on your video, it looks like the shark pool has not changed much in ten years. Quite a shame really. If I owned that property, everything would be refurbished. But hey, that's me. Here's something that's funny, I was told when down there that the family who owned the property also owned a construction firm. Construction? WTF? Start reconstructing the pools!

Anyway thinking of doing a four day weekend jaunt back there for my rapidly approaching 10 year anniversary. We'll see.

DG

thespyboys11

THA-NATURAL wrote:

Hey Donald i'm not sure if you noticed but there seems to be something wrong with your camara there is this black dot covering all the face of the people in the pictures

Fixed them....
Ed
TheSpyBoys.com

Donald Grant

Too funny. Ed you've got "mad skilz" (a lot of skill) as they say. I like it.

DG

ics

Hate that it is falling apart… would love that it was maintenance but you can still sense the atmosphere… thanks for posting

Ed you’re editing has really helped

Donald Grant

Just wanted to augment this thread. Earlier, I talked about the stairs in the corners of the main pool and how it appeared in sketch form in the June 1965 issue of Esquire. Well, I just pulled out my copies of that issue from my archive . The one on top is an incomplete copy. It only has the cover and the twelve page article related to Thunderball. The one on the bottom is a complete copy including the cover insert. If you don't have one, I highly recomend getting a copy. It has a sketches of a lot of the equipment including Bond's rebreather, the Bell Textron rocket belt, and various incarnations of the SPECTRE ring that were never used, as well as a lot of other equipment and story boards. If you're into vintage Bond
ephemera, it's a must have. The issue was also the subject of a separate poster that is quite collectible in it's own right.





DG

Winchester1

What is the asking price for Palmyra?

The Domino Effect

Winchester1 wrote:

What is the asking price for Palmyra?

Every article I have read about Palmyra has suggested that the current owner not only has no intention of selling now, but has every intention of passing it on to his children and never wants it to leave the family. So, unless something has very recently changed that I missed, there is no price.

Winchester1

Any idea who the owner is? My first reaction is IF he's soo concerned about it staying in the family why has he allowed to decay as is very obviously has?

Is it the same owner who owned it when Thunderball was filmed? Blackwell unbeleivably sold out when he decided to build all the littel rinky dink 1 bedroom "sheds" on the Goldeneye property & ask $750K US for them. To think that in 1964 the Palmyra area was nowhere near as desireable as it is now.

Gadget Meister

My understanding is that the owner has no interest in Bond whatsoever and the LAND will be passed to his heirs and the house will be demolished without a second thought. What we need is a very rich philanthropist to make him an offer he can't refuse then refurbish the house to SA condition and turn it into a Bond museum for us all to enjoy ...... any takers?

Winchester1

Thats basically the same story associated w /the Eve Anderson estate on Oahu where Magnum, p.i. was filmed. Its nowhere near as poor condition as Palmyra but its definitely much worse than when the show was in production. Although Ms Anderson probably would sell it and has never made a public statement about NEVER selling it to my knowledge.

I'd much rather have Palmyra simply because it doesn't take a 4+hr flight to reach it from the mainland. Besides sleeping in the "evil Largo's" bedroom which he shared w/ Domino is a helluva lot cooler than Higgin's bedroom IMO.

The Domino Effect

What a magnificent home Palmyra would be if renovated. It's rather modest by millionaire/billionaire standards, but it is close enough to an international airport to be convenient and yet far enough away to be a worthy retreat; has superb sea views; close to the mainland with excellent connections to Miami, NY and Europe; has a great swimming pool (even without the sharks); is in an island-nation with some decent history and culture rather than just a sun-soaked sandbar; close to some good food when you don't feel like cooking; and, the thing that gives it the nod over the admittedly superior mansions and estates owned by its neighbours...it is arguably the most famous Bond home of all. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I had the chance...even if it doesn't come with Higgins!

Donald Grant

The Sullivans no longer own Rock Point (Palmyra). It was sold to another family. I was given the mame of the owner when I was there in 2000 for my honeymoon. When I read about Rock Point later, the last name of the owner had been truncated. Think Goldstein being shortened to Gold. I'm not implying that the last name was of German origin, I don't think it was. I'm thinking Polish or, more broadly, Slavic in nature. Just an educated guess though.

I apparently got rather lucky with gaining access to Rock Point. From what I understand, the patriarch of the family does not suffer Bond tourists very well. Glad I spoke to a woman at the door, I'm told I have a way with them and that I can be "rather charming". A close friend of mine with whom I work, and who has had my back on numerous occasions calls me the "funky mamal", implying that I give off some kind of natural man musk that women go for. Or perhaps it was because it was my honeymoon, women just love romance. Whatever the reason, I'm glad I gained access. It was too cool for school.

Anyway here is the follow up to the story on my 10th wedding anniversary, my dive on the Thunderball wrecks:

http://jamesbond.ajb007.co.uk/diving-submerged-wrecks-thunderball/

DG

Gadget Meister

Rock Point is owned by by a billionaire Greek property magnate called George Mosco. He is very prominant in the Bahamas, but really does not like Bond fans anywhere near his property, you have to catch him on a really good day or when he's not there. It's a real shame that this iconic property is going to return to the sea when he passes

Winchester1

Was Mosco the owner when Thunderball was filmed? Maybe the Bond image is too big/strong for him and he doesn't like being overshadowed by something he'll never overcome.

Gadget Meister

No, he bought it years afterwards, I'm not sure but it may originally have been owned by Huntingdon Hartford who owned most of Paradise Island at the time and was the husband of Diane Hartford who appeared in Thunderball as the girl in the Kiss Kiss Bang Bang Club who Fiona cuts in on and more recently Casino Royale as one of the One & Only Club poker players.

Donald Grant

Gadget Meister wrote:

Rock Point is owned by by a billionaire Greek property magnate called George Mosco. He is very prominant in the Bahamas, but really does not like Bond fans anywhere near his property, you have to catch him on a really good day or when he's not there. It's a real shame that this iconic property is going to return to the sea when he passes

Yes, that's right, Mosco. However when I was down there in 2000, the last name was somewhat longer like Moscowitz. That's what the locals said anyway. Does not sound Greek to me, but hey that's not my specialty.

DG

Winchester1

Well....regardless of who the current owner is its a real shame that a home w/ such an incredible history has fallen into such disrepair. Since Dr No's home was a stage at Pinewood & there weren't any pool/skeet scenes there really isn't another original 007 villian's home. Honestly I can't at the moment think of a subsequent villian home which equals Palmyra. In fact I don't think another 007 film featured such a climatic scene that surpassed those done at Palmyra.



http://www.landofwhimsy.com/hdcaptures/thunderball13.jpg

http://www.landofwhimsy.com/hdcaptures/thunderball14.jpg

Gadget Meister

Well I can't disagree, I just love the look of the place and will shed a tear on the day it is demolished. But there are other iconic villains lairs eg

Piz Gloria, Suisse
Vaux-le-Vicomte, Seine-et-Marne, France
Agia Triada Monastery, Meteora, Greece
Monsoon Palace, Udaipur, Rajasthan, India
Château de Chantilly, Chantilly, Oise, France
Forbes Museum, Palais Mendoub, Rue Shakespeare, Tangiers, Morocco
Di Portanova Estate, Las Brisas, Acapulco, Guerrero, Mexico

But for my money it's toss up between Palmyra & Piz Gloria and the jury is still out

Winchester1

I feel the same way. If for no other reason its restoration would freeze (at least for another 20yrs or so) a moment in not only James Bond movie but also modern history that demo'ing it would destroy.

If or rather when I win the lottery I'd buy it, fully restore it (interior/erxterior) to its exact Thunderball condition. I'd also buy some 1965 vintage clothes, find a "Domino" double and reenact the skeet scene frequently. I've been an extra on a few movies (including the upcoming The Green Lantern) and the quality of films today don't even approach the cultural influence of 1965's Thunderball. I mean hell JFK really flipped out over Dr. No & nowadays movies regardless of how successful in 90% of the cases have little or no cultural influence. As helpful as it is (like this & other discussion boards) I'd rather the internet not have been invented.

^ post "sceance" edit. ):)):))

Gadget Meister

Love to have been at the seance where JFK flipped over YOLT ........... sorry that was frivolous ) ) and about as funny as a hole in the head .......... Ooooops British humour creeping in there .......... I know you meant FRWL -{

Bond Collectors' Weekends

I brought one of my James Bond tour groups inside the House, grounds and even swimming in the shark pool (!) for Bond Collectors' Weekend 9. I swung the visit as part of a working collaboration with the Bahamian Ministry of Tourism so we were technically guests of the Ministry (!).

Mr. Mosco is one of island's biggest realtors and developers. He is an older widower living there and wants the site demolished as the grounds are big enough to take several condo units on the beautiful promontory.

I've contacted several groups looking to buy the place - it's just a difficult thing and I'd recommend writing the Ministry of Tourism to appeal to them to preserve the spot under some kind of historic homes opportunity.

The Domino Effect

Bond Collectors' Weekends wrote:

Mr. Mosco is one of island's biggest realtors and developers. He is an older widower living there and wants the site demolished as the grounds are big enough to take several condo units on the beautiful promontory.

Very interesting tidbit. In every interview and report I have ever read he has always claimed that the home was for his kids and family to enjoy. However, this always puzzled me because he is certainly not short of money and yet the property was clearly not being properly maintained. If he was so much in love with it and wanted it for his children, I always wondered why he didn't invest in even the most basic of upkeep. Of course, I always suspected that he just said that to keep prospectors away, but it makes sense that what he really wants is building permission to develop the plot. From what I understand of Bahamian government workings, being a long-term wealthy resident, I wouldn't imagine he would have much trouble getting that permission!

Donald Grant

Bond Collectors' Weekends wrote:

I brought one of my James Bond tour groups inside the House, grounds and even swimming in the shark pool (!) for Bond Collectors' Weekend 9. I swung the visit as part of a working collaboration with the Bahamian Ministry of Tourism so we were technically guests of the Ministry (!).

Mr. Mosco is one of island's biggest realtors and developers. He is an older widower living there and wants the site demolished as the grounds are big enough to take several condo units on the beautiful promontory.

I've contacted several groups looking to buy the place - it's just a difficult thing and I'd recommend writing the Ministry of Tourism to appeal to them to preserve the spot under some kind of historic homes opportunity.

When I was there in 2000, I never encountered Mr. Mosco or Mr. Moscowitz, or whatever his name is at present. Again, the locals that I spoke with refered to him as Moscowitz. He was quite well known and of course that was some 6 years before BCW9.

At first I thought about various ways to surreptitiously see the shark pool, but in the end I figured the direct approach was the best. When I went to the property, the gates were opened and one of the grounds keepers was in the front yard. I spoke to him and he directed me to ask at the front door. I got no indication from him that I would be ill treated. I can't remember if I rang or knocked but a woman answered and she was kind enough. After explaining my plight, she said I could roam the grounds and take pictures but could not go inside the house. I was not interested in going inside since the inside shots were filmed at Pinewood Studios. Near one of the entrances is a rock that says "Rock Point" and I took some dirt from there. I also took a piece of the crumbling shark pool wall for my collection. No one rushed me off the property, I left at my leisure. Also, there was no roaming dog either. It was quite pleasant and I found the woman very gracious. Not sure what her relation was to Mosco(witz), but she made my day. Looking back on it through the prism of what I have since read about the owner, I am truly amazed that I was let onto the property, let alone able to roam the grounds without oversight. A trruly unique experience!

DG