Walther PPK Operation in films.

NICKO FAN

Hi Everyone.

I'm new to your fantastic forum, but watching the Bond films recently has got me thinking about the way the Walther PPk's work in the fims compared to real life.

We all know about the infinite bullets, and the lack of magazine reloading. However having owned a PPK Umarex BB gun, and a Umarex Walther Blank Gun which operate like the Real thing. Plus a Real Walther PPK and a PPK/s

Considering the film makers are supposed to have used real guns firing blanks.

When the PPk fire even if it is fired in semi automatic mode I.e the hammer is resting on the firing pin and the trigger must be pulled to pull back the hammer and then fire. Or it can be cocked by pulling back the hammer which also brings the trigger slightly further back and a lot lighter to pull, this can also be achieve by pulling back the slide. So when the gun fire either by pulling the trigger at rest or cocking, after firing the slide will fly back re cocking the hammer back.

But using TMWTGG as a good example when ever Bond has fired his PPK the hammer is never shown in the cocked back position as it should be if a PPK is fired ready for the next shot, which leaves me to think that perhaps Roger was just told to aim it and mime shooting it, but not actually fires it live, either that or it is some doggy editing.


Also a scene which has bugged me for ages since I got into PPK's. In the TSWLM when Bond fires at Stromburg in Alantis at the end you can not only see the action is wrong and the hammer doesn't get cocked back after the first shot, but it is in really slow motion you can see the slide go back revealing the barrel at the end, something that the real gun operating at real speed would be impossible.


I have also see Mike Meyers as Austin Powers in The Spy Who Shagged Me, has a Walther PPK/S and in the scene at the end when he shoots Doctor Evil you can see his Walther action exactly as it should work with the hammer being cocked back by the slide on each shot.

Just look at this Video of PPK/s BB gun for correct action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWuqpvLb5To&feature=related

Sorry for long post but didn't how to say it smaller.

Paul

thesecretagent

It's just continuity - it happens all the time in many films. Especially with single action semis like the Colt .45 1911. That thing is always shown with the hammer down, then firing like normal - which is impossible. The thing is, for insurance purposes and filming purposes, many weapons are converted for the task. Also, many action scenes are shot in slow motion.

walther p99

thesecretagent wrote:

It's just continuity - it happens all the time in many films. Especially with single action semis like the Colt .45 1911. That thing is always shown with the hammer down, then firing like normal - which is impossible.

i hate seeing that, and it happens in pretty much every film that used a .45

thesecretagent

I think most of the Bond films have been subject to poor weapon handling and continuity. I used to teach CQB in the army, and I think Daniel Craig's weapon handling is spot-on. Brosnan's was ok in Goldeneye, but he sure lost it for TND. Dalton probably didn't know what a gun was before Bond, and Roger Moore probably still doesn't. Connery pulls off a sort of laxidasical familiarity that works - sort of. Lazenby isn't too bad really. But Craig's (or his instruction for filming) use of weapons is very good.

PPK 7.65mm

Also bear in mind that often on film sets time is a big factor, and as a result the weapons masters/armorers often don't get as much time with the actors as they would like, hence the often poor handling of prop guns. I remember MI6 even ran an article a while back saying that Roger Moore did not like guns, and for some shots in his films, were Bond was firing they had to have a stunt man step in and do the shooting. Thankfully now, some directors (Like Micheal Mann) are kind enough to have the weapons master train the actors months in advance on proper firing skills. Some times the actors even go real gun range with the weapons master, so they get the feel for recoil, and adjust to the noise of the gun.

I agree that Connery, Dalton , and Craig have demonstrated the best weapons handling of the six actors to play Bond.

Mister Greene

This is one of those things in all movies that just bugs the hell out of me. as someone in the weapons training business and one who carries a firearm every day for most of my adult life, I believe more time should be spent by the actors preparing for roles like this where they are suppose to be professionals. with all the money that is spent on everything else in the movies why can't the actors be given proper training in the use of firearms as it pertains to the believability of their character. it just ruins it when I watch a movie and the lead is suppose to be some high speed low drag operator and when I see him handle his weapon he turns out to be low speed high drag.

Ricardo C.

Mister Greene wrote:

This is one of those things in all movies that just bugs the hell out of me. as someone in the weapons training business and one who carries a firearm every day for most of my adult life, I believe more time should be spent by the actors preparing for roles like this where they are suppose to be professionals. with all the money that is spent on everything else in the movies why can't the actors be given proper training in the use of firearms as it pertains to the believability of their character. it just ruins it when I watch a movie and the lead is suppose to be some high speed low drag operator and when I see him handle his weapon he turns out to be low speed high drag.

Well it annoys you because your in the business of fire arms and it's natural. What I want to know is how these spend on this money you get something like Die Another Day.

pwalsh9012

There are many occasions during filming that the gun isn't actualy fired, but overlayed with sound effect. You will find this during most closeups where crew or other actors are in close proximity the reason...safety. When firing a weapon on the range you would wear glasses and ear defenders for the same reason. Film is no different, scenes are set up so that when a gun is actualy fired at someone in close proximity either the crew and other actors are well out of harms way or they use sound effect and the gun isn't fired...hence stunt weapons.

thesecretagent

Look at Brandon Lee - he was shot and killed whilst filming because of loading errors using a real revolver. There's a good case for dummy weapons and tacked-on sound effects. Besides, if you ever hear gunfire on the news in a battlezone it sounds nothing like it does in realtime, or in a film. As well as this, people's perseptions of gunshots is actually different as well, and you couldn't possibly sit in a cinema with anything like real machinegun fire echoing through the speaker system. What we end up with is a unique film sound, neither like realtime, nor like real gunfire recorded.

Thunderpussy

To give a non gun expert,Only a movie watching opinion. I have absouletly no idea how to hold/fire/load or anything else with a gun.But I do love to see cool gun play e.g The new trailer for R.E.D has B Willis doing a handbreak turn in the middle of which he gets out pulling his gun to a shooting position the back of his car just missing him as it spins round. Unbelievable yes, un realistic yes,could it happen No, but I love watching this kinda stuff.

thesecretagent

Watched Bad Boys II the other night - Smith looked good powersliding his Ferrari and firing his UMP one handed. Lawrence was hillarious shooting the dashboard by mistake! Most people would be Lawrence...

Loeffelholz

thesecretagent wrote:

Look at Brandon Lee - he was shot and killed whilst filming because of loading errors using a real revolver. There's a good case for dummy weapons and tacked-on sound effects. Besides, if you ever hear gunfire on the news in a battlezone it sounds nothing like it does in realtime, or in a film. As well as this, people's perseptions of gunshots is actually different as well, and you couldn't possibly sit in a cinema with anything like real machinegun fire echoing through the speaker system. What we end up with is a unique film sound, neither like realtime, nor like real gunfire recorded.

You're right about that---it's more like a loud popping sound. I think I actually used the word 'pop' when Jade and Claude were pinned down behind the bar. Movie gunshots always manage to sound much more interesting and cinematic than the real thing -{

Thunderpussy

They used the sound from somthing like a ships machinegun for the sound of the jokers gun in The Dark Night. I seem to remember in one of the Novels that Bond Didn't use a silencer as most people didn't know what a gunshot sounded like,( then again this might be my mind playing tricks, again )

thesecretagent

I occasionally use an inappropriately large calibre rifle out of my bedroom window at foxes after my poultry ( I have a small-holding of about ten acres). I can use a .22 rifle legally for vermin, but a sniper spec target .30-06 does so much better at 200yrds plus! The thing is, even though there are five other houses within 1/2 mile square, nobody has ever mentioned it. Short of anti-aircraft fire nothing much is louder than a .30-06.

Thunderpussy

Firing guns at foxes at night,? your not Jeremy Clarkson by any chance secretagent )

thesecretagent

I never said at night. THAT would be irrisponsible, even for me. ) No, my foxes seem to like dusk and dawn. As for the Jeremy Clarkson thing - don't go there. You're talking to a man whose three-year-old daughter says, "Uncle Jeremy..." every time I switch on Dave...

Thunderpussy

Count yourself lucky secretagent I've been banned from watching TOP GEAR except for the first showing of a new series.

thesecretagent

Harsh.

Firemass

NICKO FAN wrote:

We all know about the infinite bullets, and the lack of magazine reloading.

Which gun is Bond using in Octopussy during the shootout at the train tunnel? (After interrogating General Orlov)

We see him run out of ammo…but it's definitely not his usual PPK.


EDIT- I found the answer in another thread. A Walther P-5 right ? I honestly can't remember where exactly Bond originally mislaid his ppk in India.

Matt S

Firemass wrote:

NICKO FAN wrote:

We all know about the infinite bullets, and the lack of magazine reloading.

Which gun is Bond using in Octopussy during the shootout at the train tunnel? (After interrogating General Orlov)

We see him run out of ammo…but it's definitely not his usual PPK.


EDIT- I found the answer in another thread. A Walther P-5 right ? I honestly can't remember where exactly Bond originally mislaid his ppk in India.

He uses a Walther P5 throughout Octopussy. Even though he said he mislaid his PPK, it was actually a P5 he mislaid.