Poor quality Blu Ray transfer of Thunderball

Ziggy

I have recently purchased the Blu Ray Discs of the first four James Bond movies – Dr No, From Russia With Love, Goldfinger and Thunderball – released by Fox/MGM and advertised as being restored and cleaned up by Lowry Digital. While the video quality of the first three movies is breathtaking, I have irrefutable proof that the Thunderball Blu Ray transfer was not done from the restored Lowry master but from an earlier digital master.

While some movie reviewers have picked up on the poorer video quality of Thunderball as compared to the other three Blu Rays, they all blame the Lowry restoration process, saying that the original print was damaged too badly for Lowry to fix. Now I know this to be untrue as the Ultimate Edition DVD restored by Lowry is spotless and gorgeous.

The following are some of the defects on the Blu Ray Disc which are all but absent from the Ultimate Edition DVD:

There are thin vertical lines throughout most of the film but particularly noticeable against the blue (or grey) backdrop of sky and sea. These vertical streaks are absent from the Lowry restored Ultimate Edition DVD. There are large specs of dirt and blemishes in various scenes, notably during the scene when Bond and the girl’s boat come out of the water after they first meet. Again these blemishes are absent from the Lowry restored Ultimate Edition DVD. There are also gate hairs visible in several scenes which have been cleaned up in The Lowry restorations.

The colour grading on the blu ray – so nicely evened out in the Lowry restoration – are inconsistent. At the beginning of the film the fleshtones appear natural, but after that – especially during the Bahamas sequences – they veer towards red/orange. On the Ultimate Edition DVD Bond and the girl appear tanned and not red. During screen wipes and dissolves the black levels are uneven, starting from grey before turning to black. Once again these flaws were all corrected by the Lowry restoration team and are not visible on the Ultimate Edition DVD. After the main titles sequence (2.20:1 ratio) the aspect ratio is not changed for 30 seconds whereas in the Ultimate Edition DVD the aspect ratio enlarges immediately after the titles sequence.

It is really sad that Thunderball, which contains some of the most exotic scenery and spectacular cinematography in the James Bond series, should be so marred.

The audio soundtrack is also not the same as that on the Ultimate Edition DVD which had a wider surround soundstage and was souped up with newly recorded enhancements: footsteps, background noise, etc. This is most noticeable with the “silent trap door” at Palmyra which is heard opening and closing on the Ultimate Edition DVD but is once again silent on the Blu Ray.

The main point is that the Ultimate Edition DVD of Thunderball cleaned by Lowry is a great transfer and there’s no reason the Thunderball Blu Ray Disc should have defects that the DVD doesn’t.

I am posting screenshots in order to prove my contention and I would like some opinions as to whether Fox/MGM can rectify this matter. If Fox/MGM used the wrong master by mistake can it be re-pressed using the correct master? Or was the Lowry master intentionally overlooked? If so why?

Herewith my screenshot comparisons of the Thunderball Blu Ray vs Ultimate Edition DVD. Unfortunately my blu ray player would not allow me to capture stills directly to my computer, so I literally had to take screenshots off my HD display using my digital camera. Even so, the flaws on the blu ray are clearly visible. If needed, I will post more high quality screenshots once I have upgraded my blu ray playing software.

I concede that the blu ray is superior to the dvd in many respects, but the main point is it that it could STILL HAVE BEEN BETTER had MGM/Fox used the Lowry restored master. Anyway, judge for yourselves.

The Blu Ray image is on top, followed by the UE DVD image. Click on the images to enlarge.



Scene 1 Blu Ray: Notice the vertical streaks center and left of the shot.



Scene 1 DVD: Vertical streaks cleaned up by Lowry.



Scene 2 Blu Ray: Notice the dirt on the right of the shot.



Scene 2 DVD: Dirt removed by Lowry.



Scene 3 Blu Ray: Notice the blemishes to the left of Fiona's head competing with the helicopter for attention. Also blemishes in the top right hand corner of the picture.



Scene 3 DVD: All blemishes cleaned up by Lowry. The helicopter is the only visible spot. Also notice the difference in color timing.


Scene 4 Blu Ray: Notice the vertical line between the 3rd and 4th parachutists



Scene 4 DVD: Vertical line removed by Lowry. Colour more natural.

These are just a few of the problems with the Thunderball Blu Ray. There are also a myriad of gate hairs which the digital camera could not pick up clearly.

It would be nice if MGM/Fox can remaster the Blu Ray using the restored Lowry transfer.

SilentSpy

I'm still waiting on a Blu-ray set review in 007 Magazine. They did a really good review of the remastered DVDs a while back. Too many new movies get "updated" transfers that go too far with the color changes. There are a few scenes in The Living Daylights and OHMSS which are good examples of changes that can't be just the result of cleaning up the film.

Napoleon Plural

That's an excellent post Ziggy, though I fear those screengrabs may not be allowed on this website, due to legal reasons. Some of your points are hard to see with the small pics.

It's a shame, as TB has great cinematography, the best of the films so far imo, and there are some scenes where Blu Ray would work a treat with the detail. I'm annoyed at how on TSWLM, the hi-hat sounds too loud on the Bond 77 ski chase, it's just plain distracting and not how it was in the original.

Ziggy

Napoleon Plural wrote:

That's an excellent post Ziggy, though I fear those screengrabs may not be allowed on this website, due to legal reasons. Some of your points are hard to see with the small pics.

Hi Napoleon. If you click on the images they will be enlarged. Hope I don't get into trouble for posting the pics!

hegottheboot

Usually the Blus highlight all of the changes made by Lowry that were invisible to most on the UEs.
Thunderball has never gotten proper treatment on home video except for the restored 1995 Laserdisc.

PPK 7.65mm

This is a real shame, classic movies like Thunderball deserve better. I hope that someone mentioned this to MGM, so they can fix it if possible. If Blu Ray is the future of viewing movies for the present time than MGM should get with the program.

ics

Thanks for posting this information... -{

twinarchers

I have found that with films that I know well, the Blu Ray contrast is stronger which makes dark areas in the scene black so you either can hardly see or are blacked out all together. I notice with my copy of TSWLM just received today that there are once again those darker areas and some of the bright areas look washed out which are not like that in the Ultimate DVD version. Moonraker and TMWTGG are also good but some parts look darker than the DVD. I wonder if they are trying to simulate the way today's films are made with that kind of lighting? I don't know. I do know that it will take some time to get used to or I will just grab the DVD from now on. I have Where Eagles Dare on both DVD and Blu Ray and its the same. Slightly better image but you lose some of the picture to make it have more contrast. I have not read any article on this yet so I am glad you posted. The Fiona pic has darker looking water in the Blu Ray version. I don't get it.

Firemass

This is one main reason why I'm reluctant to convert to Bond on Blu-Ray because I keep hearing reports of bad transfers, excessive edge enhancement, bad colors, cropped/misframed image etc etc

welshboy78

I would have the blu rays any day of the week. The clarity is stunning on the older films!!

AlphaOmegaSin

Never liked Blu Ray, I always prefer my DVD's

DieAnotherDay

The only Blu-Ray transfer I think is noticeably bad is GoldenEye really, It has a lot of visable Digital Noise Reduction and I think edge enhancement as well. I still think it's a huge step up from the DVD though

twinarchers

Most of the time Blu Ray is fantastic. It's when they play around with the older films they get into trouble. Dr No looks wonderful for example and I have noticed that on the special features they have added and tweaked the photos and when it is full screen they add effects so you don't get just black sides. Not on everything but some. New photos and wide screen images too.
The Outlaw Josey Wales has a scene with bloody Bill talking about where the red legs are and in the DVD you can see his face clearly. On the Blu Ray he is almost impossible to see.
Not all monitors are equal and what may be perfect on one is not on another. I wonder how they do it?

welshboy78

Yeah the problem with Blu Ray is that some studios got very lazy and cashed in on the HD craze releasing films on blu ray that had no work done on the transfer therefore looks similar to its DVD counterpart.

I guess it takes a lot of time and $$ to do a decent blu ray transfer but some of them are really out of this world!!!! I actually find it hard to watch DVD sometimes since spoilt with Blu Ray and HD media, the difference can be huge!

I wonder what the future has in store for is now 4K TVs will be introduced. Blu Ray has been quite successful however clearly has its day numbered already

AlphaOmegaSin

A lot of the early Blu Ray Releases have poor Prints -{

chrisisall

Just watched it last night, man I love this movie. No doubt exists that it is my favourite Connery Bond. It's the one Connery Bond I want on Blu Ray (though with my BR player, the DVD looks twice as good as ever!).
I might go for it despite lack of clean up...

bond2002

I am confused by this as most of the films look fantastic on blu-ray and screen caps on other sites prove it 8-)

welshboy78

chrisisall wrote:

Just watched it last night, man I love this movie. No doubt exists that it is my favourite Connery Bond. It's the one Connery Bond I want on Blu Ray (though with my BR player, the DVD looks twice as good as ever!).
I might go for it despite lack of clean up...

Believe its only the odd frame with a bit if dirt (ive never noticed it)

The transfer is stunning!!!

chrisisall

welshboy78 wrote:

Believe its only the odd frame with a bit if dirt (ive never noticed it)
The transfer is stunning!!!

Thanks, I'm on it. -{

twinarchers

What is confusing is when you look at the Dr No special features they have a short documentary on how they restored the films and how they store them. What they would have grabbed to make the Blu Ray's should be the same storage drives as the DVD's. They are scanned at a higher quality than Blu Ray can offer so they should be also ready for the new 4K Ultra High Resolution TV's coming out now. "4000 x 3000 which is slightly beyond what is on a frame of film."

richbond

I still haven't gotten round to buying a blu ray player. As most of my fave movies are older ones, I keep thinking will there be much improvement from the dvd's, especially as my fave Bonds are from the 1960's. I've heard that if you play a dvd on a blu ray player it improves the quality of the dvd to almost blu ray standard. Better than on a dvd player anyway. Can anyone confirm if this is true? Rich.

Thunderpussy

Yes bluray players upgrade the signal to a better quality, I'm more
Than happy with watching many of my older DVDs on it, but I had
To get a Bond on bluray along with the Bale Batman films. {[]