Fleming's Bond in the 1970's

Ricardo C.

I wonder how Fleming would have written James Bond in the 1970's. Would he have still written them as serious spy thrillers ? Also I am sure by this time the sex would have been more graphic and Bond would finally be aloud to say those four-letter words he loves so much.

James Suzuki

good question. i always wondered about the other novels fleming would of written if he didn't die so early

LOO7K OUT

I've always had the thought that had Fleming lived another 20 odd years, then the books would have become more like the films anyway to a degree. I know there's always been talk of the fact he'd have hated the Gadgets and the humour etc etc etc. I've never thought so. It seems to me that Ian Fleming loved living the good life, writing and travel. I can see him travelling all over the world visiting the Bond sets and loving it!

He'd have thoroughly enjoyed James Bond becoming as big as it did in the 60's and 70's and I think he couldn't have helped letting some of the movie Bond creep in.

Ricardo C.

LOO7K OUT wrote:

I've always had the thought that had Fleming lived another 20 odd years, then the books would have become more like the films anyway to a degree. I know there's always been talk of the fact he'd have hated the Gadgets and the humour etc etc etc. I've never thought so. It seems to me that Ian Fleming loved living the good life, writing and travel. I can see him travelling all over the world visiting the Bond sets and loving it!

He'd have thoroughly enjoyed James Bond becoming as big as it did in the 60's and 70's and I think he couldn't have helped letting some of the movie Bond creep in.

I agree. I am pretty sure the plots would have been even more bizarre, maybe following closer to the films but still having some of the Fleming flavour. Remember the animated statue in You Only Live Twice ? )

mrbain007

Ricardo C. wrote:

LOO7K OUT wrote:

I can see him travelling all over the world visiting the Bond sets and loving it!

He'd have thoroughly enjoyed James Bond becoming as big as it did in the 60's and 70's and I think he couldn't have helped letting some of the movie Bond creep in.

I think you may be right. Even the campier films revelled in showing off their locations (the use of Rio in MR for example or Thailand in MWTGG). Fleming would have admired that as glamorous locations were a major component of his stories. Although I wouldn't go so far as to say he'd have liked the idea of Bond in space. He probably would have thought that was a step too far.

I don't think he'd have minded the use of (a few) gagets or a little bit of humour as these added to the "fantasy" (it was he who invented the name Pussy Galore for instance), but probably wouldn't have liked the over-reliance on these aspects.

Indeed I always thought there was a SLIGHTLY larger-than-life "public schoolboy" air to the character of Bond as well as with Fleming himself. Both Bond and Fleming loved good food and embraced the challenges of seducing beautiful women. The literary figure Fleming created was much more than a dark force.

hegottheboot

Try the Christopher Wood novelization of TSWLM. It's pretty close to Fleming's style and differs from the film version. It gives a good idea of how a Fleming Bond would play in the late 70's.

Ricardo C.

hegottheboot wrote:

Try the Christopher Wood novelization of TSWLM. It's pretty close to Fleming's style and differs from the film version. It gives a good idea of how a Fleming Bond would play in the late 70's.

Yes I have read and enjoyed Wood's SPY. I was amazed how good it was. It really reads like Fleming.

chrisno1

The question is an interesting one.
My main feeling is that Fleming was tired of Bond by the sixties and while both OHMSS and YOLT were sterling efforts, TMWTGG was not. I'm aware it wasn't really a finished article, but it is one of his lesser efforts.
Could Fleming have continued tp progress along similar lines and eventually ruined his own creation?
It's interesting to think what Fleming may have made of Colonel Sun had he written it. CS does have the edge of Fleming in it - I think the torture scene and the main villain are right up his street - while the stuff on the sail boat, the opening at Quarterdeck and the way Bond is "picked up" by Ariadne all share Fleming traits. But I think he'd have tightened it up a bit more and dropped a lot of the talky-political-bollocks.
Would Fleming have been influenced by the movies? I think so, unavoidably so; he saw the cinematic potential of 007 early on and TB, while not perfect novel, utilises the screenplay to good effect. Gadgets would feature, but I don't think Fleming would ever allow them to replace Bond's brain as his ultimate weapon. The brutality of much of his writing is derived from Bond Vs The Odds. It is this human factor which still fascinates today.

p.s. I agree Wood's effort is very good.
p.p.s. Would Fleming continue to produce great titles????

Ricardo C.

chrisno1 wrote:

The question is an interesting one.
My main feeling is that Fleming was tired of Bond by the sixties and while both OHMSS and YOLT were sterling efforts, TMWTGG was not. I'm aware it wasn't really a finished article, but it is one of his lesser efforts.
Could Fleming have continued tp progress along similar lines and eventually ruined his own creation?
It's interesting to think what Fleming may have made of Colonel Sun had he written it. CS does have the edge of Fleming in it - I think the torture scene and the main villain are right up his street - while the stuff on the sail boat, the opening at Quarterdeck and the way Bond is "picked up" by Ariadne all share Fleming traits. But I think he'd have tightened it up a bit more and dropped a lot of the talky-political-bollocks.
Would Fleming have been influenced by the movies? I think so, unavoidably so; he saw the cinematic potential of 007 early on and TB, while not perfect novel, utilises the screenplay to good effect. Gadgets would feature, but I don't think Fleming would ever allow them to replace Bond's brain as his ultimate weapon. The brutality of much of his writing is derived from Bond Vs The Odds. It is this human factor which still fascinates today.

p.s. I agree Wood's effort is very good.
p.p.s. Would Fleming continue to produce great titles????

I agree about Colonel Sun. I enjoy the novel but it's a struggle to get through sometimes because of it's heavy handed political nature.

I heard Fleming did want give up writing Bond novels and just stick with short stories. Maybe at some point, if he lived ten years longer, he would have probably written another novel. Now would he have produced another great title ? Possibly. I don't think he would have another down to earth spy thriller. Very few of Fleming's Bond novels could be considered spy thrillers actually. Most of them are more along the lines of pulp and the real odd ducks are The Spy Who Loved Me and You Only Live Twice. I am not saying it like it's bad thing but that's what I have noticed. My theory is Fleming would have wrote a truly off-the-wall villian making Auric Goldfinger and Doctor No look subtle, probably not even involving the character in the cold war , and the sex and language would probably be more graphic. Basically something adkin to the movies with a more adult edge and retaining the old novel traits.

Napoleon Plural

I think he was influenced by the films a bit. OHMSS reads like it has Connery in it, what a damned shame it was the one not to feature him. YOLT seems like Connery to me, some of his flippant remarks, even if the dour outcome is not of the film world. It's odd, isn't it. Fleming died at what, 54? Or older? In any case, he could have had another 30 years. Maybe he would have tarnished Bond's world however had he stuck around, with some rubbish novels.

7289

This thread ties in well with the "Did Fleming write TMWTGG?". Part of the reason TMWTGG was such an indifferent novel is because Fleming wrote it in the midst of the litigation over Thunderball. That expierence really dulled his realtionship with oo7, his wife (never a big supporter of the Bond novels) and friends all noted the stress the lawsuit cause and attributed Fleming's heart attack directly to court battle.

Fleming's health was a result of a very self-destructive attitude, and even with modern medical care he may not have lived alot longer. Had he lived, he would have likely taken a break from Bond, and tried more serious work. He had much to write about regards his early years as a journalist (esp regards the Soviet Union) and his participation in secret work in WW2 and afterwards.

It is my belief that Fleming's non Bond writings woud have eclipsed the "thrillers" and been very well recieved. He would have earned a knighthood eventually and Bond would have been honorably retired or killed at some point and replaced by other wonderful charecters from Fleming's imagination.

Too bad it was not to be .......

Ricardo C.

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I think he was influenced by the films a bit. OHMSS reads like it has Connery in it, what a damned shame it was the one not to feature him. YOLT seems like Connery to me, some of his flippant remarks, even if the dour outcome is not of the film world. It's odd, isn't it. Fleming died at what, 54? Or older? In any case, he could have had another 30 years. Maybe he would have tarnished Bond's world however had he stuck around, with some rubbish novels.

Fleming died at 56. 30 years would be stretch given Fleming's bad habits of smoking and drinking. I'd say 5 to 10 would be a bit more realistic. I agree about OHMSS and YOLT, they seem closer to the films though the later was merely closer in nature.

Napoleon Plural

Oh yeah, I know, 60 cigs a day wasn't it? Another world. I meant, a relatively healthy Fleming.

Ricardo C.

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Oh yeah, I know, 60 cigs a day wasn't it? Another world. I meant, a relatively healthy Fleming.

70 cigs plus a bottle of gin.

Silhouette Man

For more on this subject matter, see my The Bondologist Blog article here:

http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-literary-james-bond-in-1970s.html