Should James Bond have been stuck in his own time ?

Ricardo C.

Does anyone think that like other famous literary characters that have been adapted to film, should Bond have been kept in the area he originated ? The majority of Agatha Christie mysteries adapted to film and television retained the original decades of their respective literary adventures. I am sure this would have happened to Bond if EON somehow loss the rights to the series at some point. So what do you all think ?

Napoleon Plural

Nah, cos people watch Christie as a nostalgia trip, all olde England safe little world whereas Bond is about the latest watches, phones, clothing the whole GQ thing, cars as well, that's where a lot of its interest resides, plus that will he save the world/day type thing doesn't work when it's set in the past - we know he has, the world has carried on.

It's = it is by the way. Should read 'stuck in its own time'. {:)

Ricardo C.

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Nah, cos people watch Christie as a nostalgia trip, all olde England safe little world whereas Bond is about the latest watches, phones, clothing the whole GQ thing, cars as well, that's where a lot of its interest resides, plus that will he save the world/day type thing doesn't work when it's set in the past - we know he has, the world has carried on.

It's = it is by the way. Should read 'stuck in its own time'. {:)

Yeah sorry about that. I changed it to "in his own time".

mrbain007

I think that would satisfy Ian Fleming purists no end ) It would certainly be very interesting to see the charming yet mysterious "chap" Commander James Bond back in the era in which he originated, driving his bentley and using the baretta rather than the PPK.

SilentSpy

This is a real question! For example, if the year is 2050 and we are using laser guns, flying Aston Martins, and travel is to different planets then Bond should not be in that world. If you take the Poirot TV series, it has the right setting and environment. Poirot should not be in our time period. Batman should always be in a dark, stylized city. Once you move Batman to the future, you need to change the whole character like they did with Batman Beyond. It's very tough but it can be done. Can they do that with Bond? I don't think they should. The best examples I can think of are characters like Rocketeer, Indiana Jones, Poirot, and really Bond. They have a time period range with a certain feel and elements that they should stay in. For Bond, it's 1960s up to where we are now.

thesecretagent

I think a spin-off TV drama would work well set in 50's Cold War. Brill cream, 1930's Bentley, Beretta 418 (with the skeleton grip), a pipe-puffing M in an oak-pannelled office - with someone like Jonathan Cake or Ralph Fienes in the role as "Commander" Bond (we certainly never here this rank mentioned - Craig is more like a Royal Marine NCO) and a bevy of busty beauties in various states of undress in each episode...
As for the films, no, I think they should stay in the present, although a few original traits of Fleming's Bond would not go amiss...

Lexi

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Nah, cos people watch Christie as a nostalgia trip, all olde England safe little world whereas Bond is about the latest watches, phones, clothing the whole GQ thing, cars as well, that's where a lot of its interest resides, plus that will he save the world/day type thing doesn't work when it's set in the past - we know he has, the world has carried on.

I think it's an interesting question - but I agree with Nap - Fleming had the vision of using all the latest gadgets in his era, and I think that to keep the films interesting - and interesting to the current generation, you would have to be a fleming purist not to get frustrated with him being stuck in the 60's and the restrictive technology that had to offer.

However, it must be frustrating that the movies have been removed so far from the origional novels, but I guess this will leave room for re-makes.... a continual recycle machine.

Ricardo C.

Lexi wrote:

However, it must be frustrating that the movies have been removed so far from the origional novels, but I guess this will leave room for re-makes.... a continual recycle machine.

I'd imagine if a new generation took over EON or if they ever sold the rights to the franchise.

osris

I would like to see all the Bond films since OHMSS remade and set in the sixties, with Bond played by a Connery lookalike.

superado

I think so, if we are talking about Fleming's Bond. Despite Fleming setting up Bond to be at the cutting edge of technology, mores, etc., the essence of the character has very distinct trappings of Fleming's times, particularly of his experiences. From the way Bond positions himself and interacts with society, to how MI6 operates, are from a bygone time, IMO. These give the books a very distinct persona that only lessens with each level of departure from the source, such as the continuation novels by Gardner and Benson, and the EON films. The movies break away their literary roots by extracting the most basic, abstract elements of the stories, e.g., Bond as a ladykiller, expert fighter, pistol shot, British dandy, gambler, etc., and then reinterpreting these for new generations of patrons.

mrbain007

superado wrote:

I think so, if we are talking about Fleming's Bond. Despite Fleming setting up Bond to be at the cutting edge of technology, mores, etc., the essence of the character has very distinct trappings of Fleming's times, particularly of his experiences. From the way Bond positions himself and interacts with society, to how MI6 operates, are from a bygone time, IMO. These give the books a very distinct persona that only lessens with each level of departure from the source, such as the continuation novels by Gardner and Benson, and the EON films. The movies break away their literary roots by extracting the most basic, abstract elements of the stories, e.g., Bond as a ladykiller, expert fighter, pistol shot, British dandy, gambler, etc., and then reinterpreting these for new generations of patrons.

I think your spot on there. The language of the books is very much that of the 50s. Fleming, like Bond, was certainly the type of sophisticated "old chap" that doesn't exist anymore. The kind of Etonian that would consider it "sporting" to have a few rounds of golf before lunch or a short drive along the coast in the bentley.

I think, as time goes on, that old fahioned Englishness - a major part of Fleming's literature - sadly dies out.

CmdrAtticus

I'm afraid that as much I am a Fleming purist, I believe his novels and the time frame they exist in will fade into the past as all such novels and historical events do. Though the films will always keep the character current, the original 007 and Flemings words will only be remembered by other purists and future admirers of the books. As much as I would love to see the books filmed in their time period (as was Granada Televisions brilliant adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes stories), I doubt if I will see such a project in the foreseeable future.

Tokyo Matt

Good question Ricardo.

Strange, I kind of agree with everything that everyone has said.

I wish all the Bond movies were period pieces, but I'm not sure it would be succesful. I'm just old fashioned and a fan of old fashioned things, cars, style, manners.

But, Mr. thesecretagent, Arigato Gozaimasu. I also have often wondered about Ralph Fiennes as Bond. He's very close to what I imagine when I read the novels. And I've always struggled to put into words my image of Daniel Craig. "Royal Marine NCO" is closer than I've come.

Thunderpussy

My thoughts Exactly Tokyo Matt, Crig IMNO Doesn't look like an Officer.

Mike Z

CmdrAtticus wrote:

I'm afraid that as much I am a Fleming purist, I believe his novels and the time frame they exist in will fade into the past as all such novels and historical events do. Though the films will always keep the character current, the original 007 and Flemings words will only be remembered by other purists and future admirers of the books. As much as I would love to see the books filmed in their time period (as was Granada Televisions brilliant adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes stories), I doubt if I will see such a project in the foreseeable future.

I loved the Holmes series and would love to see the books produced in a similar way. I know it's not the recipe for commercial success but I can see some merit. I don't think it takes away from the large scale cinematic productions, just another interpretation of the stories.

Thunderbird 2

I haven't read the whole thread (apologies) but there are three ways of looking at this I can see. Being a Sci Fi geek, I draw lines between the varing forms of Bond's world.


1) Ian Flemmings "pure" Bond - Ie, period Bond, from the fifties and early sixties when Flemming wrote him.

2) Evolving Movie but Contemporary style Bond - Film versions of Bond that don't overdo the tech - Dr No, LALD, TLD, TWINE, CR.

3) Sci Fi Bond. - Where the tech goes overboard. DAF, MNKR, DAD, - where the tech overshaddows everything into full Sci Fi mode.

Although I am thinking of the films with 2 and 3, I can imagine the computer games will vary between them too.


I can easily imagine a tv series could be written for Bond either in the modern reboot era like Spooks or perhaps CSI in format style, or alternatively a period piece series set after the war, or perhaps the late fifties, early sixties. I personally would prefer the latter, simply because there are plent yof contemporary films and series set in modern times. Bond is an exception to me by who he is. (QOS excepted). But to see all of Flemmings stories set in his timeframe? All the villians as they were written? That would be something.


Commnder Aticus - you make a good point. Jerry Brett WAS Sherlock Holmes, and to me, Joan Hickson WAS Miss Marple. Though I must say, as an "alternate" Bond, more Black Ops than Shipboard officer, I like Craigs turn. - Well as seen in CR anyway!

Tracy

I'm a fan of the 50s/early 60s period mini-series suggestion (can be short as 3 episodes, like Sherlock or the Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy series with Alec Guiness), featuring Commander Bond before he became a 00. Perhaps some of the storylines could be from the FYEO/Octopussy & the Living Daylights short story collections, like the original AVTAK or Hilderbrand Rarity, and be retconned into occuring prior to the film/novel canon timeline.

It would certainly whet fan appetites in between the movies, which take an indeterminable amount of time to make these past 2 decades. I see Bond as being played by a younger, relatively unknown actor, and the art direction in the vein of Mad Men. Alas, I suspect that this is all just fantasy as obtaining the rights could be prohibitively expensive.

Thunderpussy

Bond can move with the times ( Or indee any newspaper ) Just look at how well Sherlock Holmes was updated for the BBC series Sherlock ( or Sheer Luck, from the old Gene wilder movie ) ) keeping the essence of the character just moving him to modern london.

Mike Z

Thunderpussy wrote:

Bond can move with the times ( Or indee any newspaper ) Just look at how well Sherlock Holmes was updated for the BBC series Sherlock ( or Sheer Luck, from the old Gene wilder movie ) ) keeping the essence of the character just moving him to modern london.

That's the thing I like about Bond, I can picture him in pretty much any post WW2 setting and it works.

CmdrAtticus

To mrbain007's comment about how Fleming (and Bond) of the 50's is the ' type of sophisticated "old chap" that doesn't exist anymore.', I disagree. I keep in occasional email touch with one of the British officers I worked with when I was in the military He was a Royal Navy captain and is retired, and though he does not own a Bentley, he does own a classic roadster from the ffities that he and his wife use to go on golfing and beach seaside trips in southeast England. I always thought he looked like the actor Graham Crowden (was one of the government officials in FYEO and starred in the "Waiting for God" Britcom). From his emails and photos of his friends, I can say those "types" of Englishman still exist (and he even says "chaps", "chap" and "old chap" and "cheers"). If mrbain007 is inferring that this type is a breed of Engllishman from Fleming's era that is vanishing and is referring to the current generation of Englishmen by contrast, I think it depends on what background they are from. The youth of the upper classes and royals (such as those who are Eton and Oxford alumni) may listen to Lady Gaga and text each other and are certainly influenced by modern culture, their manners and speech are still of Fleming's culture, and they still engage in card playing, golfing, skiing, mountain climbing, tennis, playing cricket and going to gentlemens clubs.

I don't personally believe that "old fashioned Englishness" will every die out as long as there is a monarchy and an upper class and upper class educational institutions there.

Tracy

CmdrAtticus wrote:

To mrbain007's comment about how Fleming (and Bond) of the 50's is the ' type of sophisticated "old chap" that doesn't exist anymore.', I disagree. I keep in occasional email touch with one of the British officers I worked with when I was in the military He was a Royal Navy captain and is retired, and though he does not own a Bentley, he does own a classic roadster from the ffities that he and his wife use to go on golfing and beach seaside trips in southeast England. I always thought he looked like the actor Graham Crowden (was one of the government officials in FYEO and starred in the "Waiting for God" Britcom). From his emails and photos of his friends, I can say those "types" of Englishman still exist (and he even says "chaps", "chap" and "old chap" and "cheers"). If mrbain007 is inferring that this type is a breed of Engllishman from Fleming's era that is vanishing and is referring to the current generation of Englishmen by contrast, I think it depends on what background they are from. The youth of the upper classes and royals (such as those who are Eton and Oxford alumni) may listen to Lady Gaga and text each other and are certainly influenced by modern culture, their manners and speech are still of Fleming's culture, and they still engage in card playing, golfing, skiing, mountain climbing, tennis, playing cricket and going to gentlemens clubs.

I don't personally believe that "old fashioned Englishness" will every die out as long as there is a monarchy and an upper class and upper class educational institutions there.

I don't doubt that the hardbred English elitism (and I don't meant that term in a derogatory way) is still in existence, even if it includes more contemporary pop culture elements. That said, I don't know if that whoe culture and attitude still holds the same appeal for the mainstream audience in and outside of Britain these days. Could you imagine the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes TV series debuting in its current form today? I love the period Granada series as much as the next 221b Baker St. fan, but there's a reason why Steven Moffat's Sherlock was such a smashing success. James Bond's appeal is in his enjoyment of traditional "Establishment" privileges while behaving as an iconclast; Don Draper on Mad Men works because he operates in a similar way.