Believe me I can do much better than that but seemingly made the mistake of speaking as if I was in the pub speaking to men. I also forgot the sensitive nature of the debate, poor old Daniel, if I upset his or others sensibilities I truly apologise. Of course instead of being old fashioned I should have referred to him as 'aesthetically challenged'.
Here's waiting for the nodding dogs........................
Sarcasm and childish insults...I'm impressed 8-)
And, to clarify, this isn't a pub....just in case you were confused...
Using one's position to attempt to railroad others.......I'm not impressed 8-)
Of course this isn't a pub & just to quell any further confusion the 'I've got my finger on the buttons so I can say what I like' under the guise of moderation may impress the youngsters & nodding dogs but sadly it doesn't wash with me.
I have never done that...but if you feel that's what I'm doing then it says more about you than I ....
And your tactics of trying to dare me to ban you don't wash with me either...if you want to play games then go somewhere else...
Yes, where's the water bucket challenge, now ! )
Although there are ways to get your point across without insults
and keeping it friendly. you bunch of losers! )
( only joking )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Do I have a problem with a Black actor playing Bond ? ...... No !
( always thought Adrian Lester, would do a great 007 ) -{
Will we see a black actor playing Bond ? ...... Not for a while.
When or if it happens, I'll continue watching his films as always. I'll
Cheer when he does something exciting I'll laugh at his innuendoes.
And continue to complain, that he's younger, better looking etc than
Me . )
So long as they continue not to film in Norway and I'll be happy.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Regarding a Black a Bond actor, as BL said in a post a while back: you know, it wouldn't be the end of the world. -{
I couldn't agree more, if the right actor came along - regardless of race or sex - then that's who I'd want to see.
For the same obvious reasons that it would be just as strange if a white actor would portray Nelson Mandela.
I always find these types of comparisons to be very strange. James Bond is a fictional character. To me that makes a real difference. That's not to say that there might not be significant issues with making Bond Black, but it's clearly not the same thing.
To me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. In both instances, you have a character who, to be portrayed faithfully, needs to be portrayed by an actor that resembles the character as much as possible. Bond being fictional doesn't change that at all, he has clearly defined characteristics that have been laid down by Fleming. This cannot simply be substituted by another.
Look, we all have our preconceptions, but the main thing is a great performance in a great film IMHO.
Basically, my favourite Bond films were made in the 20th Century. I'll always have them at my beck & call.
A short, blond Bond? Cool. A black Bond? Go for it. A female Bond? Haywire showed it might be done.
My last word here: if not period pieces, the films move on. As Spock said, "Change is the essential nature of all existence."
Sure, performance in a film is important, but it is no more important than the appearance of the character, especially one whose physical characteristics have been so clearly defined.
While I agree that the series needs to change in order to keep it running, I disagree that such 'change' should apply to the character. What changes is the environment that the character is placed in and the stories in which the character is portrayed. But I fail to see why the character himself should be changed. As far as I'm concerned, fidelity to the Fleming novels is of prime importance, and if that means having to discriminate who gets to play James Bond, then so be it.
I note that you are also a Star Trek fan, so I ask this: Would you accept it if Abrams had cast Jamie Foxx instead of Chris Pine as Captain Kirk? Or Nicole Kidman as Uhura? Samuel L Jackson as Spock? Or, what if Tim Russ' character in Voyager wasn't Tuvok but an older Spock?
So, why not remake Gone With the Wind and make Rhett Butler a Latino? Come on!! Ian Fleming defined a character. I have nothing against a black super spy, just don't call him James Bond. Shakespeare had Othello as black and I don't see people clamoring to have a white actor play that role. If Broccoli and Wilson want to test the waters and see how many people don't see a James Bond movie as compared to those in the past, then go for it. It will just further show they care nothing for the character and only feel the need to feed their egos. Guess their parents didn't teach them much about respect.
If Bond is continually updated to reflect the present, and is not presented as a 'period' Bond, then what's to say a black (or female) Bond couldn't be? Bond born in the 90's needn't BE the Bond born in the early 20th Century with all the baggage of the time. Seriously.
Times have indeed moved on since the Fleming days. I have no issue with introducing new characters who are not of the same ethnic background as Bond, playing a fellow 00 agent. But I do not understand why people insist that the character of Bond can be changed in any way, especially with respect to his ethnic background. To do so I think would be to give credence to the fan theory that 'James Bond' is not a person but a code name, a theory which I strongly disagree with, given that such a theory was not advanced by Fleming in his novels.
It will just further show they care nothing for the character and only feel the need to feed their egos. Guess their parents didn't teach them much about respect.
We are discussing a potential event perhaps happening in the future so your accusations regarding missing respect for Cubby are not factual.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
"While I agree that the series needs to change in order to keep it running, I disagree that such 'change' should apply to the character. What changes is the environment that the character is placed in and the stories in which the character is portrayed. But I fail to see why the character himself should be changed. As far as I'm concerned, fidelity to the Fleming novels is of prime importance, and if that means having to discriminate who gets to play James Bond, then so be it."
I don't believe the character of Bond has anything to do with colour. If fidelity to the character of the novels (rather than fidelity to the Fleming novels themselves, in which case the series should realistically have ended after OHMSS ) ) is paramount, then the actor who can best portray that character should be chosen.
IMO Most of the actors who have played Bond have brought some aspect of Fleming to the table - including Daniel Craig, as well as Roger Moore; neither of whom are not physically akin to Fleming's vision of the dark-haired, Scots /Swiss-born, RNVR British agent. So I'd rather see Jamie Foxx or Colin Salmon play Bond than Frankie Boyle, despite the latter being a white, Scots male...
The point is: whoever at the time can most convincingly portray Bond should get the role. A sophisticated, tough, intelligent, urbane 'action man' - regardless of their colour.
As I was watching the Haphazard Stuff videos and thinking about the Bond series and how it's evolved. I came to the conclusion that the Bond character is now a timeless movie character. He can and will be placed in any time period. Even though I really don't want to see a futuristic Bond movie.
Now, the question is can the Bond character be black. At first I thought no. Why? Because of who the character was originally and the time period. But now with him being the way he is, in modern times and adjusting for those times. I don't see why not. You could have Idris Elba or a talented younger version of him play a modern Bond.
I note that you are also a Star Trek fan, so I ask this: Would you accept it if Abrams had cast Jamie Foxx instead of Chris Pine as Captain Kirk?
Ehhh, if you really want my opinion on that.... without Shatner & Nimoy, any Trek featuring the original crew is just fan fiction anyway. Cast who you want.
BA Baracus is a short black guy with a black van and gold chains.
Gandalf is an old guy with white hair and a sword called Glamdring.
Scotty is, well duh, Scottish.
Bruce Wayne is a rich orphan.
It's not about being racist, politically correct or anything else. It's simply a matter of character. Imagine sitting down to watch your favourite 'Murder, she wrote' to find old Angela Lansbury had turned into an overweight black woman from New Orleans. You'd be all 'wtf has happened here?!' but that wouldn't make you racist, it's simply a matter of a character having, well crap, characteristics.
Bond was written as, and has always been played by a middle aged British white guy. Apart from the aussie.
If the idea of a black secret agent who works for the British government is such a fantastic idea then I can't see any reason why that can't happen in a separate series/film/franchise all of its own.
The question of whether a black actor could ever play James Bond is nothing more than a **** stirring wind up. You may as well be asking if Nick Griffin would be a good candidate for minister of immigration.
"While I agree that the series needs to change in order to keep it running, I disagree that such 'change' should apply to the character. What changes is the environment that the character is placed in and the stories in which the character is portrayed. But I fail to see why the character himself should be changed. As far as I'm concerned, fidelity to the Fleming novels is of prime importance, and if that means having to discriminate who gets to play James Bond, then so be it."
I don't believe the character of Bond has anything to do with colour. If fidelity to the character of the novels (rather than fidelity to the Fleming novels themselves, in which case the series should realistically have ended after OHMSS ) ) is paramount, then the actor who can best portray that character should be chosen.
But part of portraying a character is the physical appearance of said character, including his behaviour and mannerisms. The latter two can be improvised and acted out, the former cannot. The physical appearance of a character is a very important part of character portrayal.
IMO Most of the actors who have played Bond have brought some aspect of Fleming to the table - including Daniel Craig, as well as Roger Moore; neither of whom are not physically akin to Fleming's vision of the dark-haired, Scots /Swiss-born, RNVR British agent. So I'd rather see Jamie Foxx or Colin Salmon play Bond than Frankie Boyle, despite the latter being a white, Scots male...
I can easily see Fleming's Bond in Daniel Craig, but I'm somewhat hard pressed to pick what's so Fleming-like about Moore's portrayal. Being Bond isn't just about being able to kill someone, it's also about playing a character who could pull off the dangerous, cruel look that Fleming described in his novels. Connery, Dalton and Craig pull this off convincingly.
As for your other point - I'd rather none of those got the role of Bond, because none of them look like Bond. There have been a number of names bandied about on here over who would be the next Bond - namely, Michael Fassbender, Henry Cavill, Clive Standen ... and I believe I even mentioned Nicholas Hoult. All of them have certain physical characteristics of James Bond and should be considered for the role.
The point is: whoever at the time can most convincingly portray Bond should get the role. A sophisticated, tough, intelligent, urbane 'action man' - regardless of their colour.
-{
Part of being able to convincingly portray Bond is to look like Bond.
I note that you are also a Star Trek fan, so I ask this: Would you accept it if Abrams had cast Jamie Foxx instead of Chris Pine as Captain Kirk?
Ehhh, if you really want my opinion on that.... without Shatner & Nimoy, any Trek featuring the original crew is just fan fiction anyway. Cast who you want.
BA Baracus is a short black guy with a black van and gold chains.
Gandalf is an old guy with white hair and a sword called Glamdring.
Scotty is, well duh, Scottish.
Bruce Wayne is a rich orphan.
It's not about being racist, politically correct or anything else. It's simply a matter of character. Imagine sitting down to watch your favourite 'Murder, she wrote' to find old Angela Lansbury had turned into an overweight black woman from New Orleans. You'd be all 'wtf has happened here?!' but that wouldn't make you racist, it's simply a matter of a character having, well crap, characteristics.
Bond was written as, and has always been played by a middle aged British white guy. Apart from the aussie.
If the idea of a black secret agent who works for the British government is such a fantastic idea then I can't see any reason why that can't happen in a separate series/film/franchise all of its own.
The question of whether a black actor could ever play James Bond is nothing more than a **** stirring wind up. You may as well be asking if Nick Griffin would be a good candidate for minister of immigration.
Happy New Year!
I don't often agree with you, but in this instance, I do. -{
The debate is probably pointless as I don't think the producers are willing to risk it anyway. I would bet the change would cut the box office results in half if not more.
I particularly enjoyed the world's most loved/hated US radio host's comments last week,
"James Bond is a fictional character created by a real man named Ian Fleming. He's white. He's Scottish. He wasn't black. Let's say that some Hollywood bigwig wants to do a biography movie The Life and Times of Barack Obama and cast Mel Gibson, what do you think the reaction to that would be? And playing Michelle Obama would be Gwyneth Paltrow, what do you think the reaction would be? Would it be accepted if the movie of The Life and Times of Barack Obama was cast, pick your white guy. I picked Mel Gibson because he's universally reviled in Hollywood right now, just to tweak 'em, but pick anybody, pick any white actor, pick Clooney. Clooney would be honored, by the way, to do it. Pick Clooney. How about Matt Damon as Shaft?"
Using an established character just for the sake of making him black would seem to me little more than a stunt and would prove so divisive among fans that it could potentially hurt the series. Just think of the furore caused by the new actor having blonde hair. Along with that is the fact that you would need a narrative contrivance or a hard reboot of the series in order to make it work. It's not something I actively want to happen particularly but I would be interested to see how it played out.
There is a potential solution that straddles both sides of this debate; add some more regular 00 agents into the series and then create a spin-off from this/these characters.
1- On Her Majesty's Secret Service 2- Casino Royale 3- Licence To Kill 4- Goldeneye 5- From Russia With Love
Comments
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I have never done that...but if you feel that's what I'm doing then it says more about you than I ....
And your tactics of trying to dare me to ban you don't wash with me either...if you want to play games then go somewhere else...
Although there are ways to get your point across without insults
and keeping it friendly.
( only joking )
( always thought Adrian Lester, would do a great 007 ) -{
Will we see a black actor playing Bond ? ...... Not for a while.
When or if it happens, I'll continue watching his films as always. I'll
Cheer when he does something exciting I'll laugh at his innuendoes.
And continue to complain, that he's younger, better looking etc than
Me .
So long as they continue not to film in Norway
Nooooooooooooooooo!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I couldn't agree more, if the right actor came along - regardless of race or sex - then that's who I'd want to see.
To me, it doesn't make one bit of difference. In both instances, you have a character who, to be portrayed faithfully, needs to be portrayed by an actor that resembles the character as much as possible. Bond being fictional doesn't change that at all, he has clearly defined characteristics that have been laid down by Fleming. This cannot simply be substituted by another.
Sure, performance in a film is important, but it is no more important than the appearance of the character, especially one whose physical characteristics have been so clearly defined.
While I agree that the series needs to change in order to keep it running, I disagree that such 'change' should apply to the character. What changes is the environment that the character is placed in and the stories in which the character is portrayed. But I fail to see why the character himself should be changed. As far as I'm concerned, fidelity to the Fleming novels is of prime importance, and if that means having to discriminate who gets to play James Bond, then so be it.
I note that you are also a Star Trek fan, so I ask this: Would you accept it if Abrams had cast Jamie Foxx instead of Chris Pine as Captain Kirk? Or Nicole Kidman as Uhura? Samuel L Jackson as Spock? Or, what if Tim Russ' character in Voyager wasn't Tuvok but an older Spock?
Great post. -{
Times have indeed moved on since the Fleming days. I have no issue with introducing new characters who are not of the same ethnic background as Bond, playing a fellow 00 agent. But I do not understand why people insist that the character of Bond can be changed in any way, especially with respect to his ethnic background. To do so I think would be to give credence to the fan theory that 'James Bond' is not a person but a code name, a theory which I strongly disagree with, given that such a theory was not advanced by Fleming in his novels.
We are discussing a potential event perhaps happening in the future so your accusations regarding missing respect for Cubby are not factual.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
"While I agree that the series needs to change in order to keep it running, I disagree that such 'change' should apply to the character. What changes is the environment that the character is placed in and the stories in which the character is portrayed. But I fail to see why the character himself should be changed. As far as I'm concerned, fidelity to the Fleming novels is of prime importance, and if that means having to discriminate who gets to play James Bond, then so be it."
I don't believe the character of Bond has anything to do with colour. If fidelity to the character of the novels (rather than fidelity to the Fleming novels themselves, in which case the series should realistically have ended after OHMSS
IMO Most of the actors who have played Bond have brought some aspect of Fleming to the table - including Daniel Craig, as well as Roger Moore; neither of whom are not physically akin to Fleming's vision of the dark-haired, Scots /Swiss-born, RNVR British agent. So I'd rather see Jamie Foxx or Colin Salmon play Bond than Frankie Boyle, despite the latter being a white, Scots male...
The point is: whoever at the time can most convincingly portray Bond should get the role. A sophisticated, tough, intelligent, urbane 'action man' - regardless of their colour.
-{
Now, the question is can the Bond character be black. At first I thought no. Why? Because of who the character was originally and the time period. But now with him being the way he is, in modern times and adjusting for those times. I don't see why not. You could have Idris Elba or a talented younger version of him play a modern Bond.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
BA Baracus is a short black guy with a black van and gold chains.
Gandalf is an old guy with white hair and a sword called Glamdring.
Scotty is, well duh, Scottish.
Bruce Wayne is a rich orphan.
It's not about being racist, politically correct or anything else. It's simply a matter of character. Imagine sitting down to watch your favourite 'Murder, she wrote' to find old Angela Lansbury had turned into an overweight black woman from New Orleans. You'd be all 'wtf has happened here?!' but that wouldn't make you racist, it's simply a matter of a character having, well crap, characteristics.
Bond was written as, and has always been played by a middle aged British white guy. Apart from the aussie.
If the idea of a black secret agent who works for the British government is such a fantastic idea then I can't see any reason why that can't happen in a separate series/film/franchise all of its own.
The question of whether a black actor could ever play James Bond is nothing more than a **** stirring wind up. You may as well be asking if Nick Griffin would be a good candidate for minister of immigration.
Happy New Year!
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Did Warwick Davis play the other half?
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Michael Clarke Duncan {[] a man born to
Play a super villain. ( Died far too young )
I wrote that, not Stag
But part of portraying a character is the physical appearance of said character, including his behaviour and mannerisms. The latter two can be improvised and acted out, the former cannot. The physical appearance of a character is a very important part of character portrayal.
I can easily see Fleming's Bond in Daniel Craig, but I'm somewhat hard pressed to pick what's so Fleming-like about Moore's portrayal. Being Bond isn't just about being able to kill someone, it's also about playing a character who could pull off the dangerous, cruel look that Fleming described in his novels. Connery, Dalton and Craig pull this off convincingly.
As for your other point - I'd rather none of those got the role of Bond, because none of them look like Bond. There have been a number of names bandied about on here over who would be the next Bond - namely, Michael Fassbender, Henry Cavill, Clive Standen ... and I believe I even mentioned Nicholas Hoult. All of them have certain physical characteristics of James Bond and should be considered for the role.
Part of being able to convincingly portray Bond is to look like Bond.
Touché.
I don't often agree with you, but in this instance, I do. -{
"James Bond is a fictional character created by a real man named Ian Fleming. He's white. He's Scottish. He wasn't black. Let's say that some Hollywood bigwig wants to do a biography movie The Life and Times of Barack Obama and cast Mel Gibson, what do you think the reaction to that would be? And playing Michelle Obama would be Gwyneth Paltrow, what do you think the reaction would be? Would it be accepted if the movie of The Life and Times of Barack Obama was cast, pick your white guy. I picked Mel Gibson because he's universally reviled in Hollywood right now, just to tweak 'em, but pick anybody, pick any white actor, pick Clooney. Clooney would be honored, by the way, to do it. Pick Clooney. How about Matt Damon as Shaft?"
There is a potential solution that straddles both sides of this debate; add some more regular 00 agents into the series and then create a spin-off from this/these characters.
I don't know if the world is ready for someone that cool in Her Majesty's Secret Service.