Brosnan films: low point in Bond series

124»

Comments

  • Ricardo C.Ricardo C. Posts: 916MI6 Agent
    I agree that Tanya Roberts was equally wretched. And her screaming, oh lord her screaming. X-(
  • Andy007Andy007 Posts: 100MI6 Agent
    I grew up as a teenager with Brosnan as Bond. I certainly enjoyed Goldeneye & TWINE. I think Brosnan's performance in both is very good. Hie best performance is TWINE i think. i found 'Tomorrow Never Dies' & Die Another Day' a let down. Brosnan's films were a big success in the Box office & i agree he was good for the franchise. As you get older you assess the films again. Most of my favourite films have stayed the same. But i don't think Brosnan's films match the quality of the 'Classic Bond' films 1-16. In truth the 'low point' of Bond is the early 70's. I think DAF, LALD & TMWGG are 3 of the worst films. Especially DAF. I think that film would have been better with Lazenby. LALD required a tougher Bond performance than Moore gave. He improves in TMWGG though & certainly has style by TSWLM & beyond. I'd say his best performance is FYEO.
    TND & DAD are both 2 of the worst films. I agree with comments about DAD first-half being quite good, but then ruined by the rest. Theme song was tacky for Bond though. I think now we've seen Craig as Bond in 2 films, you tend to assess the Bond actors again. Despite QOS being a disappointment, i think Craig will go up on my list (after Bond 23) behind Connery & Dalton. I rate Brosnan & Moore roughly equal, with Lazenby my least favourite. (1 film only- never got used to him as Bond). Despite being young when the Brosnan films were out, i'd still seen all the other Bond movies & knew them well from a kid. I expect over the years many people have started Bond in their era & not seen many other films. It really does help if you see the other movies & know them well. For example I enjoyed Brosnan's films, but i didn't think he was the best just because he was the first Bond i'd seen in the cinema. He was a good Bond for the 90's. But i already appreciated what Connery, Moore & Dalton had done. I actually saw DAD twice in cinema yet hate it as Bond film. I was 20 then.
    An another note, I can't believe a comment on John Glen. He was a great director & did 5 brilliant films in a row. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD & LTK. The 80's was a great era for Bond. This fits in with my view on Brosnan era. The Brosnan films just don't match the 80's or 60's films. Martin Campbell is clearly the best director since John Glen. The rest are disappointing except Michael Apted in TWINE. Glen has directed the most Bond films of any director. He had also worked as film editor and second unit director on three previous Bond movies. In some ways box office success, especially in USA annoys me a bit. These days so many duff films do well whatever. Take Superman Returns for example- it's a dreadful film. So poor compared to how good it should have been. Far too long, boring & unoriginal. Yet because its Superman -everyone just watches it anyway. I think Bond is a bit like that too. Because Bond films are more infrequent now, it guarantess a Box office success. Goldeneye came after a 6-year gap, everyone was ready for it. DAD -a huge success - after 3 year gap, then Casino Royale after 4 years. The long wait makes everyone keen. I'm sure Bond 23 will be the same after a 4-year gap again. I don't mind this if we get decent films. As a true Bond fan -another QOS will be unacceptable. The reason for that Box-office hit surely was fans keen to see Craig's 2nd film after CR was so good. I think a 4-year gap will help the franchise -as the casual fans will flock back after such a wait. I'm not sure so many would have if it was 2-year gap. I'm glad the producers do read the reviews & listen to the real fans reaction. For example after DAD - it was clear to many that this film was a farce, yet the Box office rate would suggest not. Likewise 'Superman Returns' did not earn a sequel - as the reviews clearly didn't warrant one. And when you compare Bond films against each other, (box office) i mean LTK is far better film than TND, DAD or QOS.- yet the box office doesn't back it. Imo OP, AVTAK, TLD & LTK are much better films than TND, DAD & QOS- yet the box office doesn't agree. Looking back films like DAF & LALD should have flopped at box office, but that was never going to happen with Connery returning & then Moore as a new Bond to attract interest. OHMSS for example was a very good Bond film (but this supposed failure) resulted in 3 camp (under-par Bond films). OHMSS is far better than DAF, LALD & TMWGG. You could argue that Moore was luck to survive after his first 2 films (both very average). Luckily they kept him & TSWLM really impressed, followed by a string of good films, FYEO etc.
  • Jedi MasterJedi Master UKPosts: 1,093MI6 Agent
    Brosnan was my Bond growing up and I wish you wouldn't be so critical of him! I think he wonderfully balanced the different aspects of the character - the toughness, the sexiness, the humour, the suave; all essential to the character. I don't like the DC era because the films don't feel fun anymore (not to mention disappointing villains/lack of other Bondian aspects).

    And if you don't think humour is part of Bond's character then you need to rewatch Connery's films and make a tally for every double-entendre and one liner.

    "Shocking, positively shocking." :007)
    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
  • jeffchjeffch Posts: 163MI6 Agent
    The Brosnan films were definitely a low point. Although I have nothing against Brosnan as Bond, the films themselves were just forgettable. Forgettable plots, forgettable villains, forgettable Bond girls. Unfortunately the most memorable thing about the Brosnan era to me was DAD, but thats just because it was so horrible.
  • Jedi MasterJedi Master UKPosts: 1,093MI6 Agent
    jeffch wrote:
    The Brosnan films were definitely a low point. Although I have nothing against Brosnan as Bond, the films themselves were just forgettable. Forgettable plots, forgettable villains, forgettable Bond girls. Unfortunately the most memorable thing about the Brosnan era to me was DAD, but thats just because it was so horrible.

    Oh for goodness sake that's completely untrue! GE - a former 00 agent, betrayed and with a scarred face to show for it, tries to destroy the world's economy with an EMP using a satellite dish hidden in a lake in Cuba. Natalya was not that memorable I'll grant you but Xenia?! And lest we forget - tanking through St Petersburg!

    TND - Jonathan Price is a fantastic villain! And he has such an excellent team around him - Gupta, Stampa, Kaufman! And he's trying to start WW3 just so he can get the best news coverage, that's pretty f-ed up! All the naval stuff was pretty fun, and Paris was fantastically glamorous and met a suitably sad demise. Oh yeh, there was a remote control car too...

    TWINE - is one of my all time favourites I'm afraid! Dr Jones has the sassy thing going, while Elektra is the more sophisticated beautiful temptress! The pre-titles sequence is long, but it's so much fun! And he gets off with the doctor as well, then we are introduced to the legendary John Cleese and we say goodbye to the Godlike Desmond Llewelyn. Helicopters with saw blades hanging from them?! Reinard is a fantastic villain with a brilliant deformity, and Zukovsky makes for a great minor character. Then there's that outrageous one-liner at the end!

    DAD - My least favourite Brosnan, but it's grown on me since the Craig era because at least it is a Bond film, not a film with someone called James Bond in it! It has some nice elements though, the nods to other films are a good touch, Halle Berry is good as Jinx and Frost and her make a nice contrast. The car chase with Zao is pretty cool and the theme tune and title sequence are great!

    I like Pierce Brosnan, be nice to him!!! If you want to talk about forgettable, tell me: what was the name of the villain in the latest film??
    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and everyone dies.
  • welshboy78welshboy78 Posts: 10,326MI6 Agent
    Brosnan was a great Bond and got off to a great start, unfortunately some of the films after GE were not that strong FROM START TO FINISH however there are many great scenes amongst the various movies. I think the weakness of the Brosnan era is the over the top gadgets and dare I say it plots! I would have loved to have seen the man play Bond a little more serious (not too much like Daniel Craig but a slight bit less of the cheese and gimmicks)

    There are many Moore films and two Connery films (3 including NSNA) that I tend to skip when choosing a Bond film so its harsh to blame or single out an actor in that respect, none of them are perfect (or rather even the best of the Bonds have duds)
    Instagram - bondclothes007
  • hegottheboothegottheboot USAPosts: 327MI6 Agent
    Brosnan made for a great Bond. He brought fresh energy, but was allowed to go virtually nowhere. The problem lies in the primary focus of the producers to bring Bond back to the screen and reestablish their box office presence while ignoring the scripts. It's the writing that hurts these Bond films. A reason why The Matador and The Tailor of Panama explode for those used to these four. God, if these Bonds could have any of the energy of those two films let alone the overwhelming sense of danger present in The Ghost Writer.

    GE runs on style. It oozes style, and thrives on it. Just listen to the buried Eric Serra score. (Why do I like this so much now?) But there is little else here.

    TND works as the last of the great old giant action films with one man against a big super villain. Once again interesting concept that gets virtually thrown away. The original Tomorrow Never Lies may have worked better with Anthony Hopkins as the villain. (Why did they screw that up? Why!) The final result is all done by committee with only a little bit of GE's style as a leftover. The only consolations are the score (too throwbacky), the action scenes, the cinematography and sound, and the decision to hire Sam Peckinpah's editor as the director. If you look at any scene in TND you can see just how tightly edited the whole thing is. Just brilliantly done so that the whole thing doesn't come crashing down (which it should have in any other case)

    TWINE. TWINE is an oddball. My personal favorite of the four, with it's flaws yes but it has so many good ideas and so many good moments...that get thrown away...again. Michael Apted was a splendid choice to get into the characters of Bond, Elektra and Renard...and then we get lost in the second unit action scenes...only to have the deep characterizations forgotten once more...ugh. A bit low-key, but still serviceable. But why has everyone always hated Denise Richards in this film so much?

    DAD works for all of no seconds. From the opening it looks like crap. The story opens a bit too forcefully, but I'm okay with it. I must be crazy because the Madonna song never bothered me (although on opening night the poor theater manager thought his brand new THX certified DTS system was dying out on him...;) but the film just never congeals. Purvis and Wade somehow manage to magnify and enlarge every problem from their TWINE plot and add on more issues for DAD. And then we get to the film's second half...you know the one where they said hey, let's throw the edgy kinda interesting first half completely out the window and go for a space laser throwback (which isn't one) with lots of gadgets and explosions! The whole bit of setting up Moon as a Drax is wasted. Everything is wasted. Brosnan is tossed aside. (Literally.) The few scenes that left us chuckling in the beginning were all Bond on his own, in the Chinese hotel, in Cuba etc. where we started to see some of the old rhythms creep in like an old friend. And then CGI comes in...oh god why? They turned it into a mess. And don't even get me started on Halle Berry in this film...ugh. Easily the worst character in any Bond film. Ever.

    The cinematography is great. The soundmixes are incredible. (GE and TND were out in the Dolby/DTS war where both companies were trying to outdo each other. GE has an incredible natural bass throughout that will pulverize, whereas TND has an insane amount of high end that is extremely detailed. The latest DVD remixes only have a fraction of what it sounded like in the theater.) Witty dialogue, a good and always improving Bond but this still was never really 007. It just never clicked...three times.

    You know the only time it really felt like Bond was back? The GE teaser trailer. To this day I have never heard such a collective roar of excitement and joy as when that trailer rolled in late 1994. It is still the best cut trailer I've ever seen for any film-even with some of it's MTV inspired cutting-because it promises both everything old fans and new fans wanted and more. It was a taste that was unfortunately never fulfilled and better than the film itself.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,486MI6 Agent
    Stodgy directors did it for Brosnan, made him seem even more wan than usual, plus the creeping unease on his expression that things aren't turning out so well for him, despite all the hoo-hah of his hiring, it was all a bit 'be careful what you wish for'. I liked parts of the beginning of TND but it all felt a bit heavygoing very soon.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • CmdrAtticusCmdrAtticus United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
    To me the only low points in the series were when the producers either treated the Bond films as only a product to sell (YOLT, DAF, the Moore films - except for Octopussy and FYEO -, TND, DAD), or when they tried to tie the films to cultural trends (LALD -drugs/black action films, Moonraker - Star Wars, LTK - drug wars- should have been just about weapons smuggling and financing communist plots, TND - tabloid exploitation). The best ones are either when they stick close to Fleming's stories or when they involved real global political intrigue and spying. It's not so much the actors playing Bond, it's the scripting and direction. Even my least favorite Bond - Moore, I enjoyed in FYEO and Octopussy, because they dealt with the Soviets and spying (the code machine plot as they used in FRWL) and the nuclear threat and the Soviets and smuggling gems (themes Fleming used in his novels).
  • PaperbillPaperbill FloridaPosts: 812MI6 Agent
    Here is my trake on all of this. First off I hated the 80's with the exception of FYEO and maybe TLD and even NSNA. I thought Brosnan did a great job and I over look some of the silly crap that they seem to want to infuse into the series. For me TND's is a fav, I always like to watch it, can't say that about a lot of the Bond movies. TWINE to me hard to watch...like figernails on a chalkboard...although Sophie is very good in her role (and easy on the eye) I am really glad for DC and the Casino Royale direction, but PB was a much better Bond than Moore, Dalton or Lazenby
  • jeffchjeffch Posts: 163MI6 Agent
    edited January 2012
    jeffch wrote:
    The Brosnan films were definitely a low point. Although I have nothing against Brosnan as Bond, the films themselves were just forgettable. Forgettable plots, forgettable villains, forgettable Bond girls. Unfortunately the most memorable thing about the Brosnan era to me was DAD, but thats just because it was so horrible.

    Oh for goodness sake that's completely untrue! GE - a former 00 agent, betrayed and with a scarred face to show for it, tries to destroy the world's economy with an EMP using a satellite dish hidden in a lake in Cuba. Natalya was not that memorable I'll grant you but Xenia?! And lest we forget - tanking through St Petersburg!

    TND - Jonathan Price is a fantastic villain! And he has such an excellent team around him - Gupta, Stampa, Kaufman! And he's trying to start WW3 just so he can get the best news coverage, that's pretty f-ed up! All the naval stuff was pretty fun, and Paris was fantastically glamorous and met a suitably sad demise. Oh yeh, there was a remote control car too...

    TWINE - is one of my all time favourites I'm afraid! Dr Jones has the sassy thing going, while Elektra is the more sophisticated beautiful temptress! The pre-titles sequence is long, but it's so much fun! And he gets off with the doctor as well, then we are introduced to the legendary John Cleese and we say goodbye to the Godlike Desmond Llewelyn. Helicopters with saw blades hanging from them?! Reinard is a fantastic villain with a brilliant deformity, and Zukovsky makes for a great minor character. Then there's that outrageous one-liner at the end!

    DAD - My least favourite Brosnan, but it's grown on me since the Craig era because at least it is a Bond film, not a film with someone called James Bond in it! It has some nice elements though, the nods to other films are a good touch, Halle Berry is good as Jinx and Frost and her make a nice contrast. The car chase with Zao is pretty cool and the theme tune and title sequence are great!

    I like Pierce Brosnan, be nice to him!!! If you want to talk about forgettable, tell me: what was the name of the villain in the latest film??

    Thats a classic Craig hater response. Whether QOS was good or not doesn't make any given Brosnan movie any better. The Craig era isn't over yet so we cant judge it yet as a whole. Although CR was much better than any Brosnan movie. Besides the villain was Greene, and no I didn't have to look it up. I didn't hate QOS as much as most everyone else seemed to, there were parts of it I liked. But no its not that great so I'm not going to sit here an try to defend it.

    GE- Probably the most interesting / original Brosnan Bond film. A decent start for the Brosnan era.

    TND- Carver was about as menacing as Blofeld was in DAF. And an attempt to start WW3 between 2 super power nation? I think we can lay that plot line to rest. The part where bond could amazingly drive the remote control car perfectly right away just made me roll my eyes. Yes Bond's a world class super spy, but if hes perfect at everything it removes tension from the movie.

    TWINE- Richards is hot as hell but really wrong in that role, too young for the part and a bad actor. The villain is trying to corner the market in something, again, we've seen this before. Like GE and TND, not a bad movie has its moments, but just...eh.

    DAD- So bad, invisible cars, DNA replacement, is this a sci-fi movie? Just look at Graves's cyborg suit thing at the end of the film and try not to laugh. Zao was a failed attempt at making an iconic Bond henchman. Get a pair of tweezers and pic those diamonds out of your face already. And please enough of the death-ray satellites already. Easily the worst Bond film of all time.

    You mention how DAD at least felt like a Bond film and that the Craig films don't. A lot of people feel that way, but that's because the Brosnan films are extremely formulaic. They were paint by numbers Bond story lines lacking much originality, just there to keep the franchise going. But I really have nothing against Brosnan as Bond, although I do think he has too much of a GQ pretty boy look for the role.
  • SpectreBlofeldSpectreBlofeld AroundPosts: 364MI6 Agent
    I tried re-watching 'The World is Not Enough' last week. The first ten minutes of dialogue seemed to consist almost entirely of puns. Then came the dildo joke (Bond's cigar tube gift to Moneypenny). I couldn't continue.

    The movie could have been saved if it weren't also boring.
  • Napoleon PluralNapoleon Plural LondonPosts: 10,486MI6 Agent
    I thought that was a Clinton-esque cigar reference.
    "This is where we leave you Mr Bond."

    Roger Moore 1927-2017
  • thesecretagentthesecretagent CornwallPosts: 2,151MI6 Agent
    Haven't watched a brozzer in a while but watched TND last night on the sky planner. Great Stuff! Welcome relief to the posturing of Craig's efforts. Yes, Carver isn't the best, but he's got a henchman for that. Good gadgets, action, dialogue. Come on, it's Bond not an Oscar yawnfest! I'm not a huge fan of TWINE or the 2nd part of DAD, but GE and TND aren't bad entertainment.
    Amazon #1 Bestselling Author. If you enjoy crime, espionage, action and fast-moving thrillers follow this link:

    http://apbateman.com
Sign In or Register to comment.