Why are people so quick to slag off The Man With the Golden Gun?

jamesm123

Aside from being a film i grew up with and love, i think it seems almost fashionable on this site to criticise this film. I realise no film is perfect but really i must say for me Octopussy and Moonraker are way inferior to TMWTGG. This film gives us/one so much.
Here are some of the things i love about this film (in no particular order):

Roger Moore still looks relatively young and so makes all the fighting and action more believable.

The John Barry score is one of the best - i defy anyone to go for a drive in the countryside or anywhere whilst playing the OST and not have a huge grin on their faces.

The villains are among the most memorable for me, seeing Christopher Lee tower over Roger Moore makes his villain more sinister & Nick Nack is such a memorable Bond film character.

Two hot Swedish girls for the price of one!

Bernard Lee at his grumpy best (oh shut up q!).

Amazing car chases and the best car jump/stunt ever.

The Golden Gun is a toy/gadget every kid & big kid wants.

Almost forgot - the first appearance of the Safari shirt.

Well there we are, give me The Man With the Golden Gun over Pierce Brosnan or Daniel Craig Bond films anytime.

thesecretagent

I like TMWTGG. True, the chemistry/writing is poor for M, Q and Moneypenny - and everybody seems really pissed off for some reason. But I like the story, stunts and comedy throughout. JW Pepper is OTT, but this was the seventies and Bond was about entertainment. On that factor alone I would say they succeeded. It's only when the film is compared to today's efforts that the slide-whistle accompanying the bridge jump and JW Pepper seem a bit daft. But this is a film played on Bank holiday afternoons to entertain families - Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace never will...

Q and M

i also love tmwtgg, but i dont watch it as much these days, dont know what it is, but i wouldnt get as excited watching it now. still love it tho and is a good adventure. only bad point being sergeant pepper, very much like jaws, no need to be brought back for a second film, pointless in my opinion

mrbain007

Although I'm not a mad fan of MWTGG I can understand how you feel James123. Its difficult when people slag off a Bond film/actor you are particularly fond of.

The film may not be one of the best Bond's IMO but it does have two big assets: Christopher Lee and Roger Moore. They work very well together and Lee is both menacing and charming.

Higgins

I used to look down on TMWTGG for 15 years or so.

But the movie grew on me in the past years. I find it highly entertaining!

I'd like to add to your "love" list:

Beautiful locations in Hong Kong and Thailand. I can even feel the heat and smell the situations!

We can see the Submariner a lot!

And I like Sheriff Pepper because he's not pc! He's what he is and I find him extremely funny.

I would not rate it higher than FYEO, but I like TMWTGG mostly for the same things why I like Octopussy minus an aged Roger Moore, the Clown costume and some very silly jokes (do I have to mention the Tarzan scream?).

Thunderpussy

As a kid seeing TMWTGG For the first time, I hated it. But re-watching it many times it slowly made it's way up my favorites list, Sure it's not the Best but better than many.

Golrush007

Lee Pfeiffer and Dave Worrall in The Essential Bond describe it as "the weakest of the Bond films to date ... an artistic nadir". I suppose it depends on personal taste as there are many elements of TMWTGG which people seem to either love or hate. For example, the reappearance of JW Pepper, the title song, Nick Nack, the sillier tone, flying cars, grumpy M.... the list goes on. There are also strong elements that most would agree on - Christopher Lee as Scaramanga, the exotic location of Scaramanga's island, and I think most of John Barry's score is good, although he has said he hates it. I do feel that the overall quality of the film is not great, and it belongs near the bottom of my Bond ranking - but that does not mean I don't enjoy watching it The ending - "Good night, good night. Sleep well my dear. No need to fear, James Bond is heeeeeeeeeere!" - is a real guilty pleasure for me!

darenhat

TMWTGG is a great Bond flick to me...sure, it has its weak spots, but I think it's a vast improvement over LALD. Everybody raves about LALD (and don't seem to mind the Sheriff Pepper's in that one, too). After the opening song of LALD, the movie has hit its high point for me.

In TMWTGG, I think Moore hits his stride as Bond with a good balance of action and humor. The dialogue is priceless IMO..."Would you kindly move this inverted bedpan!"..."Speak now or forever hold your piece"...

Christopher Lee shines (as always) and ranks as one of the best Bond Villians of all time. There are things that I feel don't work in the film (the afore-mentioned slide whistle, the fun-house bit are a couple of examples) but there are more positives than negatives. Barry's outstanding score, Scaramanga's simply cool island lair, a fantastic car chase, the return of Q, and so forth. And the theme song has always been one of my favorites...no pretensions, just pure Bond fun.

JohnNintendoNerd

I just like The Man with the Golden Gun for the eye candy. As the original poster said, "You get two Swedish women for the price of one!" and that's pretty much the only thing I like about The Man with the Golden Gun. You know, somebody once told me in another message board that he didn't believe there were any Bond women in GoldenEye worth saving, and I guess he was right. Because while Famke Janssen and Izabella Scorupco both looked amazingly sexy, their characters were annoying. Izabella was a stuck-up bitch who was both mousy and grating. And Famke was a freak who gained sexual pleasure by killing people, if I were Bond I would not be comfortable with saving either of those two women.

But I would bust my balls to save either Brit Eckland or Maud Adams in The Man with the Golden Gun.

Napoleon Plural

Ha ha, that's true!

What's TMWTGG got in common with OHMSS? Well, there's no knock-out action scene until well into the movie. That harms it, because you're sitting waiting for it to happen. Also it brings nothing new to the table, it feels like a sequel to the superior LALD. Still, it has its moments I guess.

Loeffelholz

I'm with my colleague darenhat on this one; TMWTGG is one of my favourite Moores...although I like LALD more than he does! To me, Golden Gun is fun from start to finish---midget and all ) Some of my favourite memories of my sons' childhood is driving along in our family van and singing the theme song when it comes up in my Bond mix disc B-)

Blackleiter

For me it's the second worst Bond film after AVTAK.

ics

Bondtoys wrote:

I used to look down on TMWTGG for 15 years or so.

But the movie grew on me in the past years. I find it highly entertaining!

I'd like to add to your "love" list:

Beautiful locations in Hong Kong and Thailand. I can even feel the heat and smell the situations!

We can see the Submariner a lot!

And I like Sheriff Pepper because he's not pc! He's what he is and I find him extremely funny.

I would not rate it higher than FYEO, but I like TMWTGG mostly for the same things why I like Octopussy minus an aged Roger Moore, the Clown costume and some very silly jokes (do I have to mention the Tarzan scream?).

Ditto markus -{

jamesm123

Bondtoys wrote:

I used to look down on TMWTGG for 15 years or so.

But the movie grew on me in the past years. I find it highly entertaining!

I'd like to add to your "love" list:

Beautiful locations in Hong Kong and Thailand. I can even feel the heat and smell the situations!

We can see the Submariner a lot!

And I like Sheriff Pepper because he's not pc! He's what he is and I find him extremely funny.

I would not rate it higher than FYEO, but I like TMWTGG mostly for the same things why I like Octopussy minus an aged Roger Moore, the Clown costume and some very silly jokes (do I have to mention the Tarzan scream?).

I forgot about the Tarzan screech, yikes! What do you mean by "We can see the Submariner a lot!"?

Blood_Stone

I actually enjoyed the movie. My only problems with it is Mary Goodnight changed to be a dumbsh*t blonde and Scaramanga, the world's greatest assassin, is greedy for the solex agitator device (wasn't even in the book), which made no sense to his character!

dtyndall

I'm not completely sure why TMWTGG is panned by so many Bond fans. In my opinion, it's one of the stronger entries of the 70's-80's Bond movie period. I liked it a whole lot more than Moore's first Bond flick LALD, and put it several notches above other Bond movies considered to be highly superior, like Thunderball, Dr. No, and QoS.

Christopher Lee as the main bad guy? That is just too awesome. The belly dancer sequence? Superb. The car chase scene in Thailand and subsequent car-into-airplane trick? Loving it.

Overall, it has its weak points but I always find it an interesting affair. Plus, I have a weak spot for Maud Adams, for whatever reason.

Mister Greene

I too call TMWTGG one of my favorites, its definately my favorite RM Bond film. the girls were great, Scaramanga was one of the best villians although i thought his death was a bit of a let down. great locations, great stunts but not too many

Napoleon Plural

jamesm123 wrote:

[

I forgot about the Tarzan screech, yikes! What do you mean by "We can see the Submariner a lot!"?

I think he means the wristwatch Bond is wearing, the Rolex Submariner.

superdaddy

Watched the film this weekend and loved it.
To me it is,along with TSWLM a great cinamatic family watchable Bond film and it is the only Bond film to have a future Bond play a villian. You may not know this but DC wore a black wig and lifts in his shoes and was actually Nick Nacks stunt double.

Thunderpussy

) Nick Knack's stunt double ! )
I have heard a gag about how D Craig was to be in 127 hours but with his arm trapped his feet didn't touch the ground. )

superdaddy

Apparantly the real reason he had his arm in a sling was due to the fact he fell off a ladder while dusting his skirting board.

superdaddy

DC has wanted to play Bond since he was knee high to a grasshopper ,oh wait he still is.
Oh I could go on all day making fun of Sid James and Ronnie Corbetts love child.

Richard--W

I used to think the virtues outweighed the flaws, but now I think it's the other way around.

J.W. Pepper is in extremely bad taste. Shoving the kid in the water is in extremely bad taste. Having two school girls defeat a hundred karate experts is too ridiculous. Turning the getaway car into an airplane is too fantastic to be believable when some down-to-earth grittiness is called for. The whoop whistle pushes the spinning car joke too hard. The indoor shooting gallery-as-funhouse is an armchair detective's idea of an action scene. It reminded me of The Avengers on TV. What was needed was a grueling, bruising hunt and chase across some boobytrapped outdoor obstacle course. Even the shooting range in Magnum Force (1973) was more ominous than than the opening scene in TMWTGG.

That having been said, Christopher Lee, Maude Adams, and are a pleasure to watch in their respective roles. The locations and atmosphere are a pleasure. The plot hustles. Roger Moore is at his very best. The Man With the Golden Gun is my favorite of the 1970s Bonds.

I like the scale of the production -- not too big, not overblown. It reminds of those two-part episodes of The Saint that were cut together for theatrical release. That's about how Roger Moore plays Bond, as a big-screen version of The Saint.

Richard

mrbain007

I re-watched MWTGG yesterday. I've never ranked it high and it still sits fairly low in my list to be honest, however I did enjoy it more this time round.

The concept is a rather promising one and for the first 40 mins the film goes along fairly nicely. I'm not sure about Moore's "harder" Bond though - especially during the Andrea-beating scene. It may be more "Fleming-esque" but it doesn't suit Moore's persona. It feels like they are trying to mould him into Connery rather than play up to Moore's strengths. In FYEO it worked better as a). Rog was "Moore" relaxed as Bond and b). The person on the receiving end of Moore's bruitality actually deserved it.

Nonetheless, the Barry score is excellent and Moore does get some fairly amusing dialogue

The film falls in the middle though with some cheap comedy including the infamous "cork-screw" stunt sound-effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6iksKTURlA&feature=fvst

See which version is better?

It does pick up however towards the end as Bond arrives on Scaramanga's island. Scaramanga is superbly played by Lee and you really feel that the character relishes his profession. I do like the creepy, funfair-like funhouse of Scaramanga's aswell.

Overall an ok Bond film but certainly not a great one.

5/10

Napoleon Plural

The lack of danger I feel is a problem. Largely this is because it turns out Bond is not under threat from Scaramanga for the first half or more, simply because he's got the wrong idea; Scara didn't sent the bullet, his mistress did so Bond is just running away from ghosts. Scara even says there's nothing personal in it, so their dual is almost an afterthought.

It would have been better to have an In the Line of Fire type story where Scara is bumping off certain names and Bond has to stop it happening, a bit cat and mouse.

Wint and Kidd far-out

Napoleon Plural wrote:

It would have been better to have an In the Line of Fire type story where Scara is bumping off certain names and Bond has to stop it happening, a bit cat and mouse.

This reminds me of the Smiert Spionem story in TLD and Bond's name was in fact even on that list.

I agree that would have made TMWTGG more exciting.

Napoleon Plural

Ta. It occurred to me that the 'come come mister bond, admit it' scene over dinner with Scara and Bond should be steeped in Bond's moral outrage and bile and this smooth villain's insinuation, at least the way it's written, but it's not really there because we haven't seen him kill anyone we particularly care about, not even poor Maud. I suppose this does make for a jollier film but it lacks bite.

Hamill82

I have always enjoyed TMWTGG, it's actually one of my favorite Bonds. It's not a masterpiece movie, but has lots of entertainment value. Also, I'm a big fan of Christopher Lee and his portrayal of Francisco Scaramanga is definitely one of the most memorable ones. Britt Ekland and Maud Adams are lovely, Nick Nack is a funny side character. Title song is catchy, even though not one of the best. The locations are great as the overall appearance of the film. And ofcourse, the golden gun, something that I always adored. If you ask me, I'd prefer TMWTGG as one of the better Bonds, rather than one of the worst.

Richard--W

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Ta. It occurred to me that the 'come come mister bond, admit it' scene over dinner with Scara and Bond should be steeped in Bond's moral outrage and bile and this smooth villain's insinuation, at least the way it's written, but it's not really there because we haven't seen him kill anyone we particularly care about, not even poor Maud. I suppose this does make for a jollier film but it lacks bite.

It certainly lacks bite. Guy Hamilton insisted on playing every scene for light comedy. That's why all his Bond films lack bite. TMWTGG wraps up the Guy Hamilton-Tom Mankiewicz Bond Trilogy. The three films they worked on together are Daimonds Are Forever (1971), Live and Let Die (1973), and The Man With Golden Gun (1974). I think TMWTGG is the best of the three. Have you read James Chapman's analysis of this trilogy in Licence to Kill: A Cultural History of the James Bond Films[? He has some interesting things to say, and hits the nail on the head, so to speak.


Richard

Napoleon Plural

No, I haven't read that. Thing is, in his other films it's true the villain is a light, jolly figure with dark flashes usually, actually Lee is the one who really doesn't seem to have any dark flashes, he's such a congenial fellow. Otherwise, Connery mustered up an edge for Hamilton's films, he gave it that veneer of seriousness that Moore didn't really have.

Alex

darenhat wrote:

TMWTGG is a great Bond flick to me...sure, it has its weak spots, but I think it's a vast improvement over LALD. Everybody raves about LALD (and don't seem to mind the Sheriff Pepper's in that one, too). After the opening song of LALD, the movie has hit its high point for me.

In TMWTGG, I think Moore hits his stride as Bond with a good balance of action and humor. The dialogue is priceless IMO..."Would you kindly move this inverted bedpan!"..."Speak now or forever hold your piece"...

Christopher Lee shines (as always) and ranks as one of the best Bond Villians of all time. There are things that I feel don't work in the film (the afore-mentioned slide whistle, the fun-house bit are a couple of examples) but there are more positives than negatives. Barry's outstanding score, Scaramanga's simply cool island lair, a fantastic car chase, the return of Q, and so forth. And the theme song has always been one of my favorites...no pretensions, just pure Bond fun.

I have to agree with Mr. 'hat as I find myself enjoying this more as time goes by. Especially after viewing the blu-ray where Barry's score is allowed to shine and all the locations, Chris Lee closeups and Maud and Brit moves are in more fine detail. I think Moore's performance here is excellent and I find the fight scenes believable and well executed. The initial confrontation of Bond and M has got to be one of the better Moore/B. Lee interactions since the glory days of Connery. "Yes, that might alter the situation indeed" followed with a curt, "Good day 007!" at the begining of a knowing smile from Bond. That's the relationship I know from both golden age and literature. His later grumpier attitude is justifiable to me and somewhat reminiscent of Fleming. As I recall at least one passages where Bond feels extreme anger at M in those written pages.

The dialogue between C. Lee and Moore, starting with the kick boxing match and ending with the pre-duel lunch, is the work of two actors at the top of their game. Not the same intense level of brilliance that Connery and Wiseman display but with a lighter yet still applicable air.

I still don't know how Bond got Nick Nack up in that crows nest or how M had Scaramanga's private Junk phone number, however I do consider this entry quite underrappreciated and better then LALD. Something I wouldn't have said ten years ago.