Octopussy: the goood and the bad
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JakartaPosts: 144MI6 Agent
Today, I rewatched OP for the first time in years. Just thought I’d post my offhand comments and see what everyone else thought.
THE GOOD:
• It’s a big, sprawling movie. I’ve always enjoyed the fact that Bond movies tell complicated stories on a big canvass. Makes them seem like an event.
• India. The other thing I’ve always loved about Bond movies is their exotic locations. They provided me with an escape when I was a kid watching them in my one-horse town.
• Some moments of grittiness from Moore. “That’s for 009.” But also the scene in which he uses Khan’s loaded dice to turn the tables on him. He never takes his eyes off Khan and delivers the line, “Well, what do you know? Two sixes” with withering contempt for such a vulgar ploy.
• Steven Berkoff is a delightfully unhinged villain. Too bad he didn’t get more screen time.
• Kristina Wayborne as Magda is simply stunning. Too bad her vocal dubbing so poor.
• Nice late-Cold War plotting—even if it did steal from The Fourth Protocol.
• The yo-yo saw was neato.
• Octopuses are awesome in anything.
• Walther P-5. Nice pistol. Too bad Bond didn’t use the compact version (and bring more ammo).
THE BAD:
• Tarzan yell
• Maud Adams is about as alluring as your boozy aunt. I like how the filmmakers were unable or unwilling to cast an Indian actress. I guess there just aren’t any attractive Indian women in the world.
• Moore is clearly too old for the role. His face is sagging. Wayborne looks mortified by the prospect of having to do a love scene with him.
• Casual (and by early-‘80s, incongruous) cultural insensitivity: “That should keep you in curry for a while.” Ha ha ha…Indian people and their wacky food (Mmm…speaking of, I kinda want seafood curry in baby coconut right now…)
• “Siiittt!” F--- me.
• Illogical PCS—“let’s send an invaluable human asset into a hostile country to blow up ONE JET.” Why are the troops guarding Bond wearing PARACHUTES when they’re MPs? In case they fall in a ditch? Why are the troops trying to close the hanger doors when the Acrostar jet flies through? In what fevered logic is the prospect of a jet crashing into a wall inside your hanger a better outcome than it not crashing and spraying burning jet fuel all over the place?
• The last third of the movie just tries to cram in as much suck as possible. Gorilla costume, clown suit, car driving on railroad tracks, terrible rear-projection, Khan kidnaps Octoopussy for no reason other than to have Bond chase him, fat German stereotypes plying Bond with beer and sausages.
• John Glen. Listening to his commentary track, it’s amazing how many of the bad ideas came directly from him. He was a great director of stunts, but storytelling was not his strongpoint. And they let this dude direct three more?
So, that’s what I’ve got. Anyone else have any observations?
THE GOOD:
• It’s a big, sprawling movie. I’ve always enjoyed the fact that Bond movies tell complicated stories on a big canvass. Makes them seem like an event.
• India. The other thing I’ve always loved about Bond movies is their exotic locations. They provided me with an escape when I was a kid watching them in my one-horse town.
• Some moments of grittiness from Moore. “That’s for 009.” But also the scene in which he uses Khan’s loaded dice to turn the tables on him. He never takes his eyes off Khan and delivers the line, “Well, what do you know? Two sixes” with withering contempt for such a vulgar ploy.
• Steven Berkoff is a delightfully unhinged villain. Too bad he didn’t get more screen time.
• Kristina Wayborne as Magda is simply stunning. Too bad her vocal dubbing so poor.
• Nice late-Cold War plotting—even if it did steal from The Fourth Protocol.
• The yo-yo saw was neato.
• Octopuses are awesome in anything.
• Walther P-5. Nice pistol. Too bad Bond didn’t use the compact version (and bring more ammo).
THE BAD:
• Tarzan yell
• Maud Adams is about as alluring as your boozy aunt. I like how the filmmakers were unable or unwilling to cast an Indian actress. I guess there just aren’t any attractive Indian women in the world.
• Moore is clearly too old for the role. His face is sagging. Wayborne looks mortified by the prospect of having to do a love scene with him.
• Casual (and by early-‘80s, incongruous) cultural insensitivity: “That should keep you in curry for a while.” Ha ha ha…Indian people and their wacky food (Mmm…speaking of, I kinda want seafood curry in baby coconut right now…)
• “Siiittt!” F--- me.
• Illogical PCS—“let’s send an invaluable human asset into a hostile country to blow up ONE JET.” Why are the troops guarding Bond wearing PARACHUTES when they’re MPs? In case they fall in a ditch? Why are the troops trying to close the hanger doors when the Acrostar jet flies through? In what fevered logic is the prospect of a jet crashing into a wall inside your hanger a better outcome than it not crashing and spraying burning jet fuel all over the place?
• The last third of the movie just tries to cram in as much suck as possible. Gorilla costume, clown suit, car driving on railroad tracks, terrible rear-projection, Khan kidnaps Octoopussy for no reason other than to have Bond chase him, fat German stereotypes plying Bond with beer and sausages.
• John Glen. Listening to his commentary track, it’s amazing how many of the bad ideas came directly from him. He was a great director of stunts, but storytelling was not his strongpoint. And they let this dude direct three more?
So, that’s what I’ve got. Anyone else have any observations?
Comments
I think Moore was a bit ill during it, it shows sometimes in the India scenes. Very wide in the beam too, one of the reasons I prefer him in AVTAK, he seems fresher, tho that's a minority view.
I agree about Maude Adams. Boozy aunt indeed! "I wrote a letter to Aunt Maude / Who was on a trip abroad / When I heard she'd died of cramp / Just too late to save the stamp!"
Better than FYEO imo, as that tried to be serious but chucked it away frequently. Oh, the whole Octo circus thing and how they can assault a castle a bit naff really, never credible.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I always thought the Girls attacking the Castle was Too lady Like,Haven't the Film crew Ever seen Real Girls Fighting !
The Soviets have invaded Afghanistan, so Orlov logically has access to dossiers compiled by Mohammed Zahir Shah's government of those disaffected with the monarchy...enter Kamal Khan. He's rich as Midas, has a taste in art, and dabbles in smuggling. He also doesn't care about human life. At the time, the only country Kamal had to get through to get to the USSR was Pakistan (save for the Wakhan Corridor in Afghanistan), where he was probably not regarded as a threat and/or bribed local officials. Octopussy is simply a business partner of Kamal, both in smuggling and happens to own a circus that travels in Europe. Orlov has no access to information on her background, so therefore, he can't risk leaving her alive one way or the other. He also was likely briefed on her by Kamal, who presumably got the "privilege" from Orlov to live as well as keep the jewelery.
Orlov delivers his final load of jewels and sets his plan in motion: kill everyone with the bomb he finally is able to afford/buy off via bribery from another Soviet officer except for Kamal, who likely would have met with an "accident" anyway once Orlov allowed him to get back to India had his plan succeeded. Remember, Mischka and Grischka are supposed to be accompanying these guys initially. As soon as Kamal and Octopussy are dead, Orlov returns the stolen jewels. Why? He has absolutely no motive to keep them other than in cold storage and fooling Octopussy and pretty much everyone else save Kamal into thinking that he too is a mere smuggler. He wants military power, not jewelry.
Let's assume that Orlov doesn't run after the train thinking the Grenztruppen will know who he is/hold their fire and leaves it up to Mischka and Grischka, who, despite being loyal Soviet agents, can be replaced. All of a sudden, even if his plan fails, not only can he blame Kamal for framing him to the Kremlin, but his antagonism toward Gogol seems to be well-known. Threat to the NATO countries still in existence and NOT eliminated, especially now that he knows of a source for a nuclear device (i.e. the same place he got the first one) and presumably has GRU officers sympathetic to him willing to let him off just to spite the KGB. And the jewels? He can claim he recovered them from Kamal and return them to the Soviet government and will of course have his backers due to an "ends justify the means" mentality from the hard-liners, no matter how far-fetched his explanation is.
But let's go back to the movie. Aside from being roughly equivalent to a mafia boss, what threat to the free world does Kamal present, exactly (let's say Bond's horse breaks its leg chasing the plane)? Ironically, since he's willing to turn on everyone (and thus likely kill Octopussy), his most logical course of action is defection to Great Britain on condition of immunity claiming to know the details of Orlov's plot (more irony: COMPLIMENTING Bond's information) with at least SOME material evidence (such as the Soviet jewels). While an important pawn in Orlov's scheme, he's still just that: a pawn, likely to be the last man shot once Orlov's T-72's start rolling into West Germany.
As soon as Orlov was shot, the tension, for me, was greatly reduced due to these reasons. Once the bomb failed to detonate, there was virtually no tension at all.
If I had my way, Bond kills Kamal and Gobinda at the circus, and also Grischka, trying to carry out Orlov's orders. Meanwhile, however, Orlov evades Gogol's KGB using his own regular Army and GRU cronies. Bond realizes that he has to get Orlov, or else the whole thing will repeat itself, albeit with a logically different means of delivering the bomb. He crosses back into East Germany and, dodging the unknowing KGB and darn-well-knowing Red Army Tank Troops and GRU, confronts Orlov a second time. Except Orlov, who was merely crazy and not stupid, knew well enough to take Octopussy hostage by accessing Bond's files on past dealings with the Soviets/his weakness for women. You could even reinact a variant of the aerial stunts as Orlov flees for Polish airspace (one would suppose in a helicopter, since the film shows us he has one), where he knows he'll be safe (all he has to do is make up some small maintenance problem with his aircraft). Bond struggles with the controls and kills the pilot, he and Orlov struggle, he winds up killing Orlov somehow, and he ultimately has to turn the chopper around and not only head for West Berlin, but also convince the USAF that despite the chopper being Soviet-marked, he's really who he says he is. I think that would have worked.
"I guess there just aren’t any attractive Indian women in the world."
Persis Khambatta tried out and was unfortunately turned down. I believe John Glen tried out her and one other, lesser-known Indian actress and that was it. I too find this really unfortunate because on the whole, I find Indian women to be very attractive.
http://apbateman.com
Yeah, Moore was beginning to age a lot, but that didn't stop him from portraying a great 007, and although his best performance and my personal favorite Bond movie is For Your Eyes Only it was an impressive movie. My biggest flaw was the Tarzan yell, and the dragging scenes in Berlin. I mean the film was incredibly exciting in India, and even the train scene where Bond is running and jumping on top of the train. I think OP and especially AVTAK are incredibly underrated, as I said Glen's first three films are fun and exciting, his fourth is serious but superb and his last is a dump.
Gees I don't know why John Glen believes Licence To Kill to be his strongest film... Don't understand at all.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
I had never thought of that before. Great catch!
There are some moments of greatness, such as the locales, Magda is hot, the Tuk-Tuk scene for me is funny and enjoyable, train top fight, and I like the cold war feel of it too. Even the twins are kind of evil and Gobinda is a great henchman.
But gee there are some shocking bits as you have mentioned: Tiger 'siiiiit!', monkey suit, tarzan yell, clown suit, and even Octopussy herself.
I need to watch again soon as I am moving to Berlin in June, so I need to get up on my locations there in OP.
Roger Moore was too old by then (he should have quit after FYEO) and it had the second worst Bond theme ever (only DAD was worse).
The movie also contains the scene with the worst continuity. When Moore/Bond is fighting a baddie with a torch, his hair is messed up but when the camera angle changes, there's not a hair out of place! I find it very jarring.
Look, it's a mistake, but seriously, the worst in the entire series? How about in GF...a true classic and one of my top favorites...when Oddjob drives a black '64 Lincoln Contintental to the scrapyard and a blue '63 Lincoln Continental without an engine is what gets crushed? How about the hubcaps changing three times on the Citroen 11BL "chase car" in my favorite Bond film, FRWL? The Webley & Scott Mk. IV revolver that changes into a Smith & Wesson in YOLT after Blofeld drops it? And what about Honey Ryder's clothes getting wet, then drying off, then getting wet, then drying off, etc. in DN? How about dents in Tracy's Mercury Cougar changing position in OHMSS? These are my favorite Bond films, yet the continuity errors, IMO, that I've just mentioned are quite a bit more severe than Moore's hair changing.
Exactly, many of which I've submitted to Movie Mistakes. Upon reflection, there are some really egregious ones where, if you manage to suspend disbelief, don't detract from the film. Check out these gems from Movie Mistakes...
-DN: "When Bond is involved in a high-speed chase on the way to Miss Taro's house, his wheels are squealing like crazy, but he's on a dirt road."
-FRWL: "The train is stopped because Spectre has pushed a 1950's style Dodge truck full of flowers in the train's path. Later, when James is driving it trying to avoid the grenades dropped from a helicopter, the truck has turned into a very different looking 1961 Chevrolet truck."
-GF: I'm sticking with the "Lincoln sans engine with a different color and model year."
-TB: "When Bond and Domino are walking along the beach in shallow water, Domino stands on a poison quill spine with her right foot. But when is Bond sucking the poison out, he does so from her left foot."
-YOLT: Sticking with the changing revolver.
-OHMSS: Another car related problem; "In the scene where Irma Bunt has seen the girls off in the village and starts chasing Bond and Tracy, tire screeching can be heard from her black Mercedes. As it is driving on snow, such a sound is not possible."
-DAF: "The famous car chase ends with Bond's car tipping up on its right wheels to fit through a pedestrian path. However, when it emerges the other side, it's tipped on its left wheels."
(It's been argued that the above is perhaps the most famous Bond continuity error, if not the worst...I believe the worst is in DAD, but we'll get to that later)
-LALD: "After Bond has finished ripping the wings off the Cessna and parks up, he speaks to the old female pilot, and in doing so, the camera shows that the wings behind her head are still intact, when they were already ripped off at this point."
-TMWTGG: "At the beginning of the film the gangster screws a silencer on his gun, but when he fires the sound effect is for an unsilenced gun."
-TSWLM: "The shot of the two nuclear missiles being launched is used twice, just reversed. They seem to have changed the saturation slightly in one of them to make it look different, but there are identical clouds at the top left/top right in both shots, ruining the trick."
-MR: "In the scene where the space station explodes, the wire holding up the model is visible when the explosion backlights it."
-FYEO: "At the end when Max the parrot drops Bond's watch into the water you can see a piece of wire lowering it in."
-OP: "In the scene where Bond is trying to escape with his new Mini-Jet, he flies through a big hall. If you look carefully, you can see that the aeroplane which is supposed to be flying with its wings vertical is fastened to some kind of sustainer." (Note: You think THAT's *less* jarring than Roger Moore's hair?)
-AVTAK: "In the pre-credits sequence, when Bond is fighting the Soviet troops who are attacking him, Bond hooks a grappling hook onto the back of a Soviet soldier who is a riding an snowmobile, which sends the soldier flying off the snowmobile and hanging over an icy ledge. The soldier then says "Pomageete! Roger Moore pomageete!" which is Russian for "Help! Roger Moore help!""
-TLD: So why doesn't Bond's laser cut through the VB Lada's wheels? And why do the lasered-through break lines work?
-LTK: "After Bond received a lighter from Felix and Della, he uses it and the flame is big. In the beginning and the end, you can see a tube is connected to the lighter and the tube goes into his suit."
-GE: "During the draining of the water in the dish, some shots actually show the water flowing backwards. For instance, at a particular moment, masses of water jump UP, ark toward the opening, and fall in it. The most likely reason is that, during the filming, the special effects people took a shot of a replica of the dish FILLING with water, then edited it the other way, to show that the water was emptied from the dish."
-TND: So, what's holding up the chain that Wai Lin is being suspended from after the ship explodes?
-TWINE: "We know Renard heard Electra speaking over the walkie-talkie, saying "Renard, dive, Bond is..." before she is shot, as he instantly orders the sub to dive, but he seems shocked later to learn she is dead. As well as this, he would have heard Bond's gun going off."
-DAD: "During the car chase scene on the ice, the green Jaguar fires a minigun at Bond's car several times. Amazingly, Bond's car doesnt even have a scratch on it. Even if the car was bullet proof, it would still have large dents and scratches, not to mention the large cracks in the glass, the likes of which could be seen when Q fires a pistol at a sheet of bullet proof glass earlier in the film."
-CR: The Czech language signs (including the huge Czech Telecom sticker on the phone booth) repeatedly reminding us that we're really NOT in Montenegro.
-QoS: "Bolivia has no [sandy] desert. It has a large highland called altiplano and the world's second largest salt desert. Both look totally different than the landscapes shown in the movie."
And every one of these is less jarring than Roger Moore's hair getting messed up? Really?
Some I'd never heard of....
Daf sideways car is my favourite and always will be...