Totally disagree about Dalton being "wimpy". Dalton was the best Bond to me. Dalton brought a much needed edge to the role at the time he took it. I like Roger Moore well enough but it's difficult for me to watch him at times, particularly action seqences. All of the actors arguably bring different things to the role of course.
Dalton is not as high ranked to me. I like LTK especially for the short haired Pam? one of my favorite Bond girls ever.
Anyways something about Dalton has always been off. Sure he benefits from being in more "serious" films and coming after the Moore era making him seem even more different. But as hard as he tries to be the serious Bond I have trouble buying into it. I always picture him prancing around wearing tights and performing a Shakespeare play or something. I don't know maybe it feels like he's over-acting at times?
I always see people mention they would've liked to see more than just the two films from Dalton. But I'd like to imagine Brosnan doing TLD<K instead. I guess I'm in the minority because everyone seems to love the dark horse Dalton. He's towards the bottom of my favorite Bond actor list.
I always see people mention they would've liked to see more than just the two films from Dalton. But I'd like to imagine Brosnan doing TLD<K instead.
I think Brosnan would have looked far too young to do those films...even if he was originally cast for TLD...and I don't think we would have got LTK with Brosnan as Bond either...
I think Brosnan has a lot to thank Dalton for...Dalton took over from a too old Roger Moore...but Moore was well loved (by some anyway ) ) and I think Brosnan - and the series - benefited from Dalton's tenure....for example, would Brosnan have survived the 6 year hiatus ? Probably not. And Dalton's Bond wiped the board clean for Brosnan to play the part how he wanted too...without the spectre of Moore on his shoulder...
...for example, would Brosnan have survived the 6 year hiatus ? Probably not. And Dalton's Bond wiped the board clean for Brosnan to play the part how he wanted too...without the spectre of Moore on his shoulder...
Well, one could say it that way:
Without Dalton, there would not have been the need for a 6 year-long break :v
Possibly Dalton wiped much - including the franchise - almost out :v
If you are asking me, Daltons appearance kept people off from Bond. He bored people - most of them almost
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The six year long break between Bonds was almost exclusively due to the lawsuit between Danjaq and MGM/UA and other legal wranglings at the time. To say it was because of Dalton is reaching at best. TLD was a more successful film than AVTAK worldwide and did well in the U.S. (as well as AVTAK anyway). A big part of the problem with LTK was that they opened it around 10 days before Batman in the U.S. back in 1989. If you were living in the U.S. at the time then you'd know this was a bad idea. Very bad. Batman sucked all of the air out of basically every action based film in the summer of 89' in the states. Batman was everywhere. The lead up marketing campaign for Batman was incredible. It was everywhere here in the states. I mean everywhere. It destroyed everything in its path that summer as far as action films go here. The suits behind Bond have never made that mistake again. Unfortunately Dalton's Bond was the epiphany project so to speak. If they dared to put the new Bond up against the new Batman I can almost guarantee you Bond would pay the price. Batman here in the states is huge. The last Batman film made over $500 million in the states (more than half its worldwide gross). Notice how the Bond films have basically been coming out in November here in the states since the 89' debacle. If you want to get eaten alive in the U.S. box office a sure fire way is to release an action film against Batman. I do agree however that some people here in the states were so used to Roger Moore that it was strange for them seeing a Bond who was more like the literary version (Dalton). I like Roger Moore (he was my first Bond in the theatre back in the 70's) but his portrayal of Bond was a very sugar coated version and not very realistic at all. He had been Bond for 14 yrs at the time Dalton's Bond hit theatres and it was a jolt for some here in the U.S. I remember it well. Batman was the real nail in the coffin though for LTK. I loved what Dalton and the producers did with Bond once he took over and thought it was way overdue. From what I see here in the U.S. Dalton's tenure has risen in stature over the years. I obviously can't say about overseas.
Lawsuits never stopped Cubby from producing films...
When I have been talking about Bond in the late 1980s, virtually everybody could not even say the name of the main actor and everybody was bored to death with the franchise.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It's obvious you don't like T Dalton. That's fine. To imply that the lawsuit between Danjaq & MGM/UA had nothing to do with the gap in films is ludicrous though. It is/was well documented in the entertainment press and known among Bond fans. In addition TLD out performed AVTAK at the box office worldwide and in the U.S. (albeit only slightly in the U.S.). You don't like Dalton, we get it. Your agenda has been exposed, still doesn't change the facts of the matter.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,929Chief of Staff
Lawsuits never stopped Cubby from producing films...
When I have been talking about Bond in the late 1980s, virtually everybody could not even say the name of the main actor and everybody was bored to death with the franchise.
Oh yes they did ! He just managed to find a way around it sometimes...like joining forces with Kevin McClory
Cubby was ill at the time too...perhaps less effort on that fight and more on the one to try and get better ?
Everbody knows that the six year break had NOTHING to do with Dalton...bondtoys is just mischief-making
One reason Dalton didn't return was because he hates promoting the films afterwards, the constant touring around and endless dumbass questions.... - if you ever get a chance to see the press question and answer session in Austria (for TLD ), well - that will show you perfectly !
Everybody knew the next picture (Goldeneye) had to be a success and that promoting the film would be vital...Dalton didn't fancy this too much and it was decided to re-cast the part - this would also garner great publicity for the film...
The problem with you Bondtoys is that you're engaging entirely in speculation because you don't like Dalton. You have an agenda. The aforementioned lawsuit between Danjaq and MGM/UA is common knowledge with most Bond fans and was widely reported in the media. In addition several people connected to Bond have gone on record and stated that scripts were semi-written/proposed for a 3rd Dalton film well after LTK was out of theatres. If they had wanted to get rid of him so badly why in the world would they have started writing scripts and gave him intimate knowledge about what those scripts were? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. LTK did very well overseas, it was only in the U.S. where it came up short. The decision to release every Bond film afterwards later in the year is a good indicator that they never should have gone against Batman in the summer of 89' here in the U.S. It certainly could at least be argued because of the facts. Why don't you just post that you hate Dalton in every topic regarding him? That would at least make sense considering your agenda. Instead you're trying to manufacture something with no proof whatsoever to back it up. I can remember when Dalton announced he was leaving and the entertainment press here in the U.S. spoke about the lawsuit in reference to a proposed future Bond project. They even ran polls on some ent. outlets about who people in the U.S. wanted to replace Dalton. They specifically mentioned the ongoing legal wranglings on tv. These are all facts. Stating that you and other people you know didn't like Dalton doesn't provide any evidence in some proposed theory about why the franchise was on hold for 6 years. I know plenty of people who aren't crazy about D Craig and by the time the new Bond comes out it will have been at least 4 yrs between Bond films. The ability to raise money for the new film is well documented and it would be silly for any Craig detractors (and they ARE out there) to say it's because they considered getting rid of him. There is simply no evidence. No one will ever know what the suits behind Bond thought of any of the actors who have played him unless they say so publicly. I could sit here and speculate that since AVTAK had a more than 20% dropoff in it's U.S. box office take from the previous Octopussy that the suits wanted Moore out. Problem is there is no evidence. None. Therefore I don't engage in it. Moore (according to reports) left of his own free will and I believe that until I see hard evidence to the contrary. Like I said before, we get it---you don't like Dalton. That doesn't change facts. The lawsuit was the only reason for the gap in films that has substantial creedence and facts. Everything else is speculation. To me the fact that Dalton knew about the 3rd film and the specific script points that were being discussed in the early 90's is more than sufficient. If I were at a studio and wanted to get rid of him I don't think I'd be telling him what the next film plot was. Asanine.
I have never left any doubts, that I don't like Dalton as Bond.
But saying that I have an agenda - I don't like and you have no right to say this!
I am talking about things, that I have experienced and what I did read. Instead of telling me "it's common knowledge with most Bond fans" you could be a bit specific.
I am a Bond fan but I don't know.
That aside, did you ever think, that someone has to read all this of yours without any breaks?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I don't know how it's possible for one to be more specific than mention the actual companies involved in a lawsuit that was very well publicized by the entertainment media. Also it is common knowledge among most Bond fans that this lawsuit took place (big Bond fans anyway). Dalton himself was still giving interviews to Bond fanzines in the early 90's about the proposed next Bond film and when McClory toyed with the idea that he would produce yet another remake of Thunderball around 2000 he specifically mentioned Sony as the studio and Dalton as their choice of Bond to compete with MGM/UA's Bond. I tend to think of Sony as pretty capable people, why they would want an actor that another studio supposedly kicked to the curb for being unpopular is again asinine. Bondtoys it's pretty obvious to me that you don't have a whole lot of knowledge about the situation that went down in the early to mid 90's with the franchise. You don't like Dalton so you're trying to imply/sell that he was discarded rather than walked away. Problem for you is you have no evidence. It's just that simple. Perhaps you should research things before commenting, especially when there are documented facts to back up the reasons for the franchises' troubles around this time. Ah but something tells me you won't. I doubt it's in you.
Should have mentioned/clarified above that Sony/McClory mentioned Dalton as one of their apparant choices to be in another remake of Thunderball in the late 90's etc. They also mentioned trying to bring back Connery as well for the proposed film.
Everbody knows that the six year break had NOTHING to do with Dalton...bondtoys is just mischief-making
No joking here: Do you have anything to back this up ?
As far as I know, and I mean it, it was more or less the same reason like for the pause prior to CR: Lack of ideas, burn-out and so on.
I have plenty of proof...it was ALL over the papers and more than likely on the internet now too. The reason for the break IS clear and has NEVER been open to interpretation....it was due to ITV wanting to pay far less for the tv rights for the Bond films (and other MGM films) than Eon/MGM wanted...PERIOD !
I would LOVE to see any shread of proof you have to the contary, bondtoys
TLD was United Artists highest grossing film of the year by far. The film and Dalton's performance as Bond actually received pretty good reviews in the press. LTK, which IMO is a decent Bond film was victim to mistep after mistep on the part of EON with regards to promotion and release date. Not only did LTK go up against Batman in summer '89, check out the other films in theaters at that time: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Star Trek 5, Ghostbusters II, Lethal Weapon II and the Abyss. Add to that a dismal ad campaign and a bad poster it's not surprising.
Oh, and by the way: Bondrox is correct in his recollection of the cause of the six year hiatus between films.
- Law suits never kept Cubby off from producing Bond films!
- Danjaq was put for sale prior to the lawsuit against MGM/UA about the TV rights
And to quote a sum-up from somewhere else:
"Following the the disappointing box office returns for Licence to Kill in 1989, it was clear to everyone - and the money men - that the series needed a shake up."
And this had a lot to do with Dalton- who was not accepted anymore by the money-men because - well you guessed it - was not broadly accepted by the paying audience anymore. Or probably he never was :v
Of course, there have been other factors like Cubbys health, Screenscripts, path of directing, strong competition, but the main actor was a factor. A huge one!
As for my friendship circles, Sir Miles. I never talked about my friends, I have been speaking about people, that I have been talking Bond with.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
"Anyways something about Dalton has always been off. Sure he benefits from being in more "serious" films and coming after the Moore era making him seem even more different. But as hard as he tries to be the serious Bond I have trouble buying into it. I always picture him prancing around wearing tights and performing a Shakespeare play or something. I don't know maybe it feels like he's over-acting at times? "
I have thought that as well, he almost prances across the screen at times. It does seem at time he never understood the difference between stage acting and film work. I read a quote from Connery ( I'm sure it was in someone's post ) where he said he thought Dalton underestimated the role because of the his theater background doing shakespeare. He never understood how big a role Bond was to play and I thought that was quite a good description. Also Thunderpussy , who is a Dalton fan, wrote in a post how he never bought Dalton in the action scenes. I always thought that as well. He had the look, but he just did not move very well in the action sequences in my opinion, even though he did alot of his own stunts. Watch the scene in the PCS with Sanchez at the air strip, Dalton truly prances across the field while he is running with the other DEA agents. I have just always thought there was a gravitas to the role he lacked. They was just something a little underwhelming about Dalton in my book. I really wanted to like Dalton in the role so much as well. Every time I watch the movie the 4th protocol with Brosnan I always wonder what it would have been like if he had not been screwed by the remington steele deal and taken over with TLD. I still enjoy LTK ( and to a lesser extent TLD, though I have warmed more to it through the years ) But in regards to Dalton, Bond toys, you have another ally in me as well B-) -{
But in regards to Dalton, Bond toys, you have another ally in me as well B-) -{
-{ to this.
I for my part am pretty relaxed about Dalton and his fans. My opinion stands and I can take all the Daltonism with a smile (one time, these people will see the light)
The fun ends, when it's getting personal from the Dalton camp (but this always follows a pattern....). {:)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Hey Bondrox chill a little, we are all friends here, and if you read enough posts you will start to know who likes what and so on. Bondtoys flies the flag for sir Roger, Thunderpussy thinks Daniel Craig is the greatest Bond in the history of creation ( sorry pussy couldn't help myself ) he's really not a Craig fan ) ect.... Thats why we have the smiley faces and what not, helps lighten the tension a bit. As a fellow American I know how we can get a bit forceful when we get in debates about things, but I have found that most of the members on this sight are European and there is a bit more civility. We are all friends here and we all love Bond, I know football season ( Yank football ) is coming so maybe your just gearing up for battle Just wanted to throw that out there
I'll always defend Sir Roger against insults, but in my opinion, he was not THE best Bond actor.
That honor goes to Craig and Connery.
I grew up in the Moore Bond age, I like him a lot for his wit and his personality (don't take live too serious! cheers!) and I understand the context, why his Bonds went into a certain entertainment direction - which was mostly the decision from Cubby, the writers and the director and the audience!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yeah Bond toys that's about my take too. Nobody beats the BIG CAT :v But having been a kid in the 70's " I JUST GET " where the films were coming from with Sir Rog. I just think some younger fans just see Roger on the small screen and go " That's just silly " Ect.. But in truth from YOLT through Moonraker Bond really was more like a " Super Hero " ( Majesty, aside ) B-)
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,929Chief of Staff
- Law suits never kept Cubby off from producing Bond films!
- Danjaq was put for sale prior to the lawsuit against MGM/UA about the TV rights
And to quote a sum-up from somewhere else:
"Following the the disappointing box office returns for Licence to Kill in 1989, it was clear to everyone - and the money men - that the series needed a shake up."
And this had a lot to do with Dalton- who was not accepted anymore by the money-men because - well you guessed it - was not broadly accepted by the paying audience anymore. Or probably he never was :v
Now, now bondtoys, just because you quote from the internet that doesn't make it true...a LOT of rubbish is spouted on the internet...and the quote you used is supposition at best...and has NO basis in fact at all...and as the source of your quote ) ) ) I wouldn't believe too much what you read from there
Remember that LTK took more money from North America than TLD did...and that is FACT !
Danjaq put up for sale ? Cubby already owned 50% - that's where the problem came from...the other 50% wanted to sell the tv rights at the lower price...Cubby didn't...that's the real reason we got a 6 year gap...nothing to do with Dalton I'm afraid...you still haven't provided any proof it was... :v
Of course, there have been other factors like Cubbys health, Screenscripts, path of directing, strong competition, but the main actor was a factor. A huge one!
As for my friendship circles, Sir Miles. I never talked about my friends, I have been speaking about people, that I have been talking Bond with.
A third filmscript had already been completed...or ceratinly a draft and a couple of re-writes anyway...so the 'money-men' didn't seem too put off by Dalton...and Dalton DID get a lot of positive press...
I'm sorry you have to talk Bond with people less than friends :v
Comments
Sorry, father!
Anyways something about Dalton has always been off. Sure he benefits from being in more "serious" films and coming after the Moore era making him seem even more different. But as hard as he tries to be the serious Bond I have trouble buying into it. I always picture him prancing around wearing tights and performing a Shakespeare play or something. I don't know maybe it feels like he's over-acting at times?
I always see people mention they would've liked to see more than just the two films from Dalton. But I'd like to imagine Brosnan doing TLD<K instead. I guess I'm in the minority because everyone seems to love the dark horse Dalton. He's towards the bottom of my favorite Bond actor list.
Well put, I totally agree -{ -{ -{ -{ -{ -{ -{ -{ -{ *
Additionally I find him looking like a nobody-bookkeeper
*particularly on the short-haired Pam part
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think Brosnan would have looked far too young to do those films...even if he was originally cast for TLD...and I don't think we would have got LTK with Brosnan as Bond either...
I think Brosnan has a lot to thank Dalton for...Dalton took over from a too old Roger Moore...but Moore was well loved (by some anyway
Well, one could say it that way:
Without Dalton, there would not have been the need for a 6 year-long break :v
Possibly Dalton wiped much - including the franchise - almost out :v
If you are asking me, Daltons appearance kept people off from Bond. He bored people - most of them almost
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
When I have been talking about Bond in the late 1980s, virtually everybody could not even say the name of the main actor and everybody was bored to death with the franchise.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Oh yes they did ! He just managed to find a way around it sometimes...like joining forces with Kevin McClory
Cubby was ill at the time too...perhaps less effort on that fight and more on the one to try and get better ?
Everbody knows that the six year break had NOTHING to do with Dalton...bondtoys is just mischief-making
One reason Dalton didn't return was because he hates promoting the films afterwards, the constant touring around and endless dumbass questions.... - if you ever get a chance to see the press question and answer session in Austria (for TLD ), well - that will show you perfectly !
Everybody knew the next picture (Goldeneye) had to be a success and that promoting the film would be vital...Dalton didn't fancy this too much and it was decided to re-cast the part - this would also garner great publicity for the film...
No joking here: Do you have anything to back this up?
As far as I know, and I mean it, it was more or less the same reason like for the pause prior to CR: Lack of ideas, burn-out and so on.
Additionally LTK has been welcomed by the press in a similar way like DAD and I stand with what I have said from my conversations back then:
I could not find a single person, who liked him as Bond, most of them could even not tell his name.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I am sure, that if he wanted , that would have worked also with the movie after LTK.
By the way, I like LTK much more than TLD, it just suffers from the bad main actor imho
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I have never left any doubts, that I don't like Dalton as Bond.
But saying that I have an agenda - I don't like and you have no right to say this!
I am talking about things, that I have experienced and what I did read. Instead of telling me "it's common knowledge with most Bond fans" you could be a bit specific.
I am a Bond fan but I don't know.
That aside, did you ever think, that someone has to read all this of yours without any breaks?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/asinine
I did read and understand this.
If that's your level of thinking and discussion - it's over now!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Hope that the mods take action
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No proof it's him bondtoys...if you have proof of this I would like to hear it via PM please.
Now...play nice please...
I have plenty of proof...it was ALL over the papers and more than likely on the internet now too. The reason for the break IS clear and has NEVER been open to interpretation....it was due to ITV wanting to pay far less for the tv rights for the Bond films (and other MGM films) than Eon/MGM wanted...PERIOD !
I would LOVE to see any shread of proof you have to the contary, bondtoys
LTK didn't get the best of reviews...and it struggled for an audience in the midst of a heavy summer blockbuster schedule...
As for people whom liked Dalton ? May I respectfully suggest you widen your circle of friends
Oh, and by the way: Bondrox is correct in his recollection of the cause of the six year hiatus between films.
- Law suits never kept Cubby off from producing Bond films!
- Danjaq was put for sale prior to the lawsuit against MGM/UA about the TV rights
And to quote a sum-up from somewhere else:
"Following the the disappointing box office returns for Licence to Kill in 1989, it was clear to everyone - and the money men - that the series needed a shake up."
And this had a lot to do with Dalton- who was not accepted anymore by the money-men because - well you guessed it - was not broadly accepted by the paying audience anymore. Or probably he never was :v
Of course, there have been other factors like Cubbys health, Screenscripts, path of directing, strong competition, but the main actor was a factor. A huge one!
As for my friendship circles, Sir Miles. I never talked about my friends, I have been speaking about people, that I have been talking Bond with.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
"Anyways something about Dalton has always been off. Sure he benefits from being in more "serious" films and coming after the Moore era making him seem even more different. But as hard as he tries to be the serious Bond I have trouble buying into it. I always picture him prancing around wearing tights and performing a Shakespeare play or something. I don't know maybe it feels like he's over-acting at times? "
I have thought that as well, he almost prances across the screen at times. It does seem at time he never understood the difference between stage acting and film work. I read a quote from Connery ( I'm sure it was in someone's post
-{ to this.
I for my part am pretty relaxed about Dalton and his fans. My opinion stands and I can take all the Daltonism with a smile (one time, these people will see the light)
The fun ends, when it's getting personal from the Dalton camp (but this always follows a pattern....). {:)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Hey GGG
I'll always defend Sir Roger against insults, but in my opinion, he was not THE best Bond actor.
That honor goes to Craig and Connery.
I grew up in the Moore Bond age, I like him a lot for his wit and his personality (don't take live too serious! cheers!) and I understand the context, why his Bonds went into a certain entertainment direction - which was mostly the decision from Cubby, the writers and the director and the audience!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Now, now bondtoys, just because you quote from the internet that doesn't make it true...a LOT of rubbish is spouted on the internet...and the quote you used is supposition at best...and has NO basis in fact at all...and as the source of your quote
Remember that LTK took more money from North America than TLD did...and that is FACT !
Danjaq put up for sale ? Cubby already owned 50% - that's where the problem came from...the other 50% wanted to sell the tv rights at the lower price...Cubby didn't...that's the real reason we got a 6 year gap...nothing to do with Dalton I'm afraid...you still haven't provided any proof it was... :v
A third filmscript had already been completed...or ceratinly a draft and a couple of re-writes anyway...so the 'money-men' didn't seem too put off by Dalton...and Dalton DID get a lot of positive press...
I'm sorry you have to talk Bond with people less than friends