I will admit up front that Moore was my least favorite Bond. I was actually pleased when I learned he was going to be in LALD, because of my fond memories of him in his Saint days. That quickly died when I saw the film with Moore taking the attitude of "I know I can't be vicious like Connery was, so I'll play up the wittiness and bad puns and tailored costumes and raised eyebrow". Sure, there were brief moments when Moore actually tried to be serious with the character, but they were way too brief and too few. Even when the scripts tried to get back into real Fleming territory as in FYEO, and gave him some moments to be the assassin 007 (as when he shoved the villains' car off the cliff in FYEO), it seemed out of his character by then. Sorry Roger fans, he just could never convince me he was a trained government hit man and spy anymore than if he had tried to play a serial killer. I could see any of the others playing a killer, even Brosnan - but not Roger. His aging just added to my disbelief.
As far as Roger or the other actors in the fight sequences, you have to blame the scriptwriters and stunt supervisors and editors and directors as much as the actors. I've been unfortunate enough to have been in two "scuffles" in may life, one when I was young and one when I knew how better to defend myself (after the first I realized I needed to learn boxing and how to move quickly but with precision, and recently I took up Krav Magaw). I got hurt the first time but so did my opponent, and I got hurt the second time, but only after because of muscle soreness (my opponent did not fair as well because I was trained and he obviously wasn't). Having been inside the real thing and seen it real from outside and comparing it to the staged Bond fights, here's what I have to say. I enjoy the slower moving fight staging like in the Connery films, where you can see where the punches and kicks are coming from and where they are going (especially when Bond and or the villian uses an object as a weapon). It's like watching a good boxing match on TV. I liked the Bourne fights and the Craig fights because they are vicious and fast moving as a real one, but the choppy editing and close camera work put me in the middle of the attack where I can't see what he hell is going on! The CR stairwell fight was fine, but the hotel fight in QOS was poor (but alas, so was most of the editing of the action in the film).
As far as which actor "moved" the best in the fight stunts, I think all the actors except Moore were fine. To me, Moore seemed as though he wanted the scenes staged as safe as possible so he would not get hurt, where as the other actors were not as concerned and just wanted to be believeable as possible (Roger wanted to win a fight without breaking a sweat or messing his tie).
Oh, and SecretAgentMan...you're right. I'ves seen men get kicked in the face and not go out (bloody, nose, etc), but I also know of instances where men have gotten kicked in the head and it killed them right there (in overseas rebellion street fighting). Depends on the area struck and the force applied (and even the footwear). It's probably true that Craig should have had a harder time taking out the men in the elevator than the hotel assassin, but I'm giving a little artistic license to the idea that he was on guard going into the hotel room but was taken by surprise, where as in the elevator he had a few moments to measure up his space and situation and the men next to him and the sequence he need to move in to overcome them.
moore it seemed was perfect for the role of bond circa 1973. yes he was older than sean connery but he looked a good ten years younger. for 'live and let die', ' the man with the golden gun' and 'the spy who loved me', moore without doubt in my opinion looked young enough to pull off james bond. starting with 'moonraker' he was starting to look a few years older. it may have been right for him to leave after 'the spy who loved me' but to be fair he did give his best performance in 'for your eyes only'. to be fair to moore, he was leaving after 'for your eyes only' but was persuaded to stay on for 'octopussy' and 'a view to a kill'. Dalton should have been brought in 1979 or 1983. the two actors would have got more credit, moore for not being an old bond, and dalton would have been given the time to develop his bond to the point where he would have been respected more as the character. the franchise also would have benefited as they would have been seen as injecting more youth into the movies. as dalton would have been in his thirties, this would have been perfect
moore it seemed was perfect for the role of bond circa 1973. yes he was older than sean connery but he looked a good ten years younger. for 'live and let die', ' the man with the golden gun' and 'the spy who loved me', moore without doubt in my opinion looked young enough to pull off james bond. starting with 'moonraker' he was starting to look a few years older. it may have been right for him to leave after 'the spy who loved me' but to be fair he did give his best performance in 'for your eyes only'. to be fair to moore, he was leaving after 'for your eyes only' but was persuaded to stay on for 'octopussy' and 'a view to a kill'. Dalton should have been brought in 1979 or 1983. the two actors would have got more credit, moore for not being an old bond, and dalton would have been given the time to develop his bond to the point where he would have been respected more as the character. the franchise also would have benefited as they would have been seen as injecting more youth into the movies. as dalton would have been in his thirties, this would have been perfect
Agreed it was a missed opportunity with EON only concerned with keeping the ship afloat and the cash coming in. They had mixed experiences with changing the actor, but should have listened to Moore when he felt it was time to go. For his part his reputation and standing have been damaged in favour of a few more pay days. His call of course, hope that they are both happy with the choices they made. The series did suffer as a consequence.
I will admit up front that Moore was my least favorite Bond. I was actually pleased when I learned he was going to be in LALD, because of my fond memories of him in his Saint days. That quickly died when I saw the film with Moore taking the attitude of "I know I can't be vicious like Connery was, so I'll play up the wittiness and bad puns and tailored costumes and raised eyebrow". Sure, there were brief moments when Moore actually tried to be serious with the character, but they were way too brief and too few. Even when the scripts tried to get back into real Fleming territory as in FYEO, and gave him some moments to be the assassin 007 (as when he shoved the villains' car off the cliff in FYEO), it seemed out of his character by then. Sorry Roger fans, he just could never convince me he was a trained government hit man and spy anymore than if he had tried to play a serial killer. I could see any of the others playing a killer, even Brosnan - but not Roger. His aging just added to my disbelief.
As far as Roger or the other actors in the fight sequences, you have to blame the scriptwriters and stunt supervisors and editors and directors as much as the actors. I've been unfortunate enough to have been in two "scuffles" in may life, one when I was young and one when I knew how better to defend myself (after the first I realized I needed to learn boxing and how to move quickly but with precision, and recently I took up Krav Magaw). I got hurt the first time but so did my opponent, and I got hurt the second time, but only after because of muscle soreness (my opponent did not fair as well because I was trained and he obviously wasn't). Having been inside the real thing and seen it real from outside and comparing it to the staged Bond fights, here's what I have to say. I enjoy the slower moving fight staging like in the Connery films, where you can see where the punches and kicks are coming from and where they are going (especially when Bond and or the villian uses an object as a weapon). It's like watching a good boxing match on TV. I liked the Bourne fights and the Craig fights because they are vicious and fast moving as a real one, but the choppy editing and close camera work put me in the middle of the attack where I can't see what he hell is going on! The CR stairwell fight was fine, but the hotel fight in QOS was poor (but alas, so was most of the editing of the action in the film).
As far as which actor "moved" the best in the fight stunts, I think all the actors except Moore were fine. To me, Moore seemed as though he wanted the scenes staged as safe as possible so he would not get hurt, where as the other actors were not as concerned and just wanted to be believeable as possible (Roger wanted to win a fight without breaking a sweat or messing his tie).
Oh, and SecretAgentMan...you're right. I'ves seen men get kicked in the face and not go out (bloody, nose, etc), but I also know of instances where men have gotten kicked in the head and it killed them right there (in overseas rebellion street fighting). Depends on the area struck and the force applied (and even the footwear). It's probably true that Craig should have had a harder time taking out the men in the elevator than the hotel assassin, but I'm giving a little artistic license to the idea that he was on guard going into the hotel room but was taken by surprise, where as in the elevator he had a few moments to measure up his space and situation and the men next to him and the sequence he need to move in to overcome them.
If only he'd left sooner, then the sooner we'd of had the reboot and Daniel Craig could of started as a young Bond way back In 81 as a Young inexperienced agent.
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Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,756Chief of Staff
If only he'd left sooner, then the sooner we'd of had the reboot and Daniel Craig could of started as a young Bond way back In 81 as a Young inexperienced agent.
I apologize in advance if I offend his fans, but if I had my way Sir Roger would have quit after Live and Let Die! That being said, in my opinion FYEO was Moore's best turn as Bond, so yes I think he should have quit after that.
Harsh. But I do think LALD and FYEO are Moore's best.
To me I feel like the movies themselves weren't up to par in the late 70s/early 80s. And Roger gets stuck with taking a fall for the writer/directing decisions of that time period. Most complaints about Moore's films would likely still be the same with any other actor playing Bond in those films. A younger Bond in there could've only helped so much, with things like stunts/poon and such.
keeping it quick and obviously by the time of 1985's A View To A Kill, Roger Moore was evidently too old to be passing off as Britain's favorite spy master, getting down with Roberts for one, when she could easily have played his daughter.
Maybe Moonraker should of been enough, that was his fourth outing, FYEO was quite good and Moore actually DID seem to take the role seriously for once
But Octopussy and View to a Kill was just a license for Moore to eyebrow and smirk his way through a payday wearing a range of bizarre outfits and totally inplausible "action" pieces
i.e A 57 year old Bond/Moore hangs on to a airship/blimp rope and sails across San Francisco, hitting objects and slamming into the Golden Gate bridge without injury and then leaping about dodging bullets.
I think Dangermouse has it right when he says Moore should have left after OP. While I don't admire that film, its set up suits Sir Roger's humoursome gait, although if they toned down some of the slapstick it would have been a much more tense affair. CmdrAtticus hits the nail too in pushing the blame towards the writers. Exactly how was Moore supposed to give an authenticly tough performance when confronted with lines like: "it's a top hat for a very small man - keeping the British end up - Sit! - Quiche! - that'll keep you in curry for a month - i think he found me quite titilating - etc etc etc" ? When called upon to be mean (parts of LALD, TMWTGG and FTEO) he's actually pretty good, but he wasn't called on to do this often enough. The nadir is AVTAK where, as I've stated many times, I'm not convinced 007 is directly hands-on responsible for killing any one. That would never have worked with any of the other Bond's who, one way or another, always gave the impression of lurking, inert menace. Too often Moore seems simply inert.
I think Dangermouse has it right when he says Moore should have left after OP. While I don't admire that film, its set up suits Sir Roger's humoursome gait, although if they toned down some of the slapstick it would have been a much more tense affair. CmdrAtticus hits the nail too in pushing the blame towards the writers. Exactly how was Moore supposed to give an authenticly tough performance when confronted with lines like: "it's a top hat for a very small man - keeping the British end up - Sit! - Quiche! - that'll keep you in curry for a month - i think he found me quite titilating - etc etc etc" ? When called upon to be mean (parts of LALD, TMWTGG and FTEO) he's actually pretty good, but he wasn't called on to do this often enough. The nadir is AVTAK where, as I've stated many times, I'm not convinced 007 is directly hands-on responsible for killing any one. That would never have worked with any of the other Bond's who, one way or another, always gave the impression of lurking, inert menace. Too often Moore seems simply inert.
Well I loved AVTAK, must remember that in the days of Dynasty and so on, Moore didn't seem quite so old as he does now set alongside 'teen' style heroes like Matt Damon and Tom Cruise. In fact he seemed jollier and more youthful imo that in OP. Plus, in those days one was watching Moore thru the prism of his younger years, now one sees him thru the prism of his older years projected onto him.
I'd still rather see Moore in AVTAK than Connery in NSNA, age-wise.
That said, a mid-30s Bond in the mid-80s would have bought a younger generation, who were content with Harrison Ford (not actually that youthful, but seemed it) as Indy.
A View To A Kill is one of my favorite Bond films, because of the settings, locations, plot, action sequences and strong villain. Though, I agree with everyone when they state Roger Moore was too old for AVTAK, which is my only downside to the film. Though believe it or not, I still thought he made a good performance and was actually quite energetic if you compare it with Octopussy in particular.
AVTAK is just an ultimate winner in my books. I loved the Eiffel Tower chase, San Francisco, Sutton's house scenes, the fire at City Hall and how Bond lifts Stacy out of the burning building which to me really represents Moore's exit to the series, and the chase sequence right after. The mine tunnel scenes as well as the Golden Gate Bridge fight were pretty outstanding. Walken portrayed Zorin very nicely. I liked Stacy as the Bond girl despite what people may say. I guess though Moore did seem like 10 years older after Octopussy, and he was different on AVTAK, like FYEO more serious.
Even though I would consider AVTAK one of my favorite Bond films and certainly near the top of the Moore era, had Timothy Dalton done it, it definitely would have ranked top of the entire series. No question -
Octopussy was a good Bond movie but to me it has a lot of flaws. I prefer A View To A Kill.
The answer is yes, Moore should have quit after FYEO.
At least Lucasfilm recognised Indy (ie Harrison Ford) was getting on a bit by joking at his expense in The Crystal Skull. The Bond makers simply seemed to think we could take it all with a hefty pinch of salt in 1985. Really, I don't get Sir Roger in AVTAK, he looks over weight and distinctly wrinkly. He isn't sleeping through the movie like Connery in YOLT, but his presence is reduced by his sheer athletic inability. You can't say this about Connery in NSNA, who despite looking distinctly unfit gives the impression of being more than capable in a struggle. Here the writers (probably Le Frenais and Clement, not Semple) cleverly poked fun at his slightly careworn look without overtly changing the ruggedness of the movie, so it feels as if we are in on the joke of an older Bond - you can almost skip 1972 to 1982 and go straight from DAF to NSNA, physically Connery doesn't look much different. Eon came close to this with Bibi in FYEO but botched it by enveloping her character with a bizarre nympho-lolita complex which sits ill against Moore's aging, responsible and rather stately performance as 007.
A View To A Kill is one of my favorite Bond films, because of the settings, locations, plot, action sequences and strong villain. Though, I agree with everyone when they state Roger Moore was too old for AVTAK, which is my only downside to the film. Though believe it or not, I still thought he made a good performance and was actually quite energetic if you compare it with Octopussy in particular.
AVTAK is just an ultimate winner in my books. I loved the Eiffel Tower chase, San Francisco, Sutton's house scenes, the fire at City Hall and how Bond lifts Stacy out of the burning building which to me really represents Moore's exit to the series, and the chase sequence right after. The mine tunnel scenes as well as the Golden Gate Bridge fight were pretty outstanding. Walken portrayed Zorin very nicely. I liked Stacy as the Bond girl despite what people may say. I guess though Moore did seem like 10 years older after Octopussy, and he was different on AVTAK, like FYEO more serious.
Even though I would consider AVTAK one of my favorite Bond films and certainly near the top of the Moore era, had Timothy Dalton done it, it definitely would have ranked top of the entire series. No question -
Octopussy was a good Bond movie but to me it has a lot of flaws. I prefer A View To A Kill.
The answer is yes, Moore should have quit after FYEO.
One of the worst things about AVTAK--and there are many bad things--is that they make absolutely no effort to hide the fact there are stuntmen (and, in the wedding cake scene, a dummy) standing in for Moore. In fact, it's like Moore is their stand-in! Indeed, Rog stayed at least one film too long!
AVTAK is pretty much the worst in the franchise. Not even fancy pants FlemingBond could save it. Dalton, nor any of the other mere Bond actors that wish they could be more like Dalton, would not save the worst Bond films. The problems run higher up than the actors.
I think Dalton could have helped if he was cast, with doing the stunts, playing it more seriously, and told some actors how to improve on lines. A Dalton-Walken battle would have been great to see.
"You're in the wrong business... leave it to the professionals!"
James Bond- Licence To Kill
Answer me this would the Moore fans have been happy to see rog in tld and ltk?
A gadget to repair his old wrinkly face perhaps? ........
1) No
2) You'll look worse when you're 57
I look worse now!!
Seriously though he was in these films for the money, if u play a character you play him as the character, not as yourself. thank god he never played hitler.
"You're in the wrong business... leave it to the professionals!"
James Bond- Licence To Kill
Answer me this would the Moore fans have been happy to see rog in tld and ltk?
A gadget to repair his old wrinkly face perhaps? ........
1) No
2) You'll look worse when you're 57
I look worse now!!
Seriously though he was in these films for the money, if u play a character you play him as the character, not as yourself. thank god he never played hitler.
Moore might not have played !!FLEMINGBOND!!, but he certainly played CinemaBond.
Dr. E, your Hitler comment shows an incoherency which one might associate with disjointed and disordered thought processes. I wonder if the same has resulted in your allegiance to Dalton?
I look worse now!!
Seriously though he was in these films for the money, if u play a character you play him as the character, not as yourself. thank god he never played hitler.
Moore might not have played !!FLEMINGBOND!!, but he certainly played CinemaBond.
"Felix Leiter, a brother from Langley."
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If Moore had chosen to step down after Moonraker or For Your Eyes Only I would have been okay with that.
I have long been a fan of Dalton, and I would have loved for him to have done a few more movies before Brosnan came in.
The Living Daylights is one of my favorite Bond films, and was nice change to get back to roots of Ian Fleming's books after the sillyness of Moonraker, OctoP)ssy and A View to a Kill.
Comments
As far as Roger or the other actors in the fight sequences, you have to blame the scriptwriters and stunt supervisors and editors and directors as much as the actors. I've been unfortunate enough to have been in two "scuffles" in may life, one when I was young and one when I knew how better to defend myself (after the first I realized I needed to learn boxing and how to move quickly but with precision, and recently I took up Krav Magaw). I got hurt the first time but so did my opponent, and I got hurt the second time, but only after because of muscle soreness (my opponent did not fair as well because I was trained and he obviously wasn't). Having been inside the real thing and seen it real from outside and comparing it to the staged Bond fights, here's what I have to say. I enjoy the slower moving fight staging like in the Connery films, where you can see where the punches and kicks are coming from and where they are going (especially when Bond and or the villian uses an object as a weapon). It's like watching a good boxing match on TV. I liked the Bourne fights and the Craig fights because they are vicious and fast moving as a real one, but the choppy editing and close camera work put me in the middle of the attack where I can't see what he hell is going on! The CR stairwell fight was fine, but the hotel fight in QOS was poor (but alas, so was most of the editing of the action in the film).
As far as which actor "moved" the best in the fight stunts, I think all the actors except Moore were fine. To me, Moore seemed as though he wanted the scenes staged as safe as possible so he would not get hurt, where as the other actors were not as concerned and just wanted to be believeable as possible (Roger wanted to win a fight without breaking a sweat or messing his tie).
Oh, and SecretAgentMan...you're right. I'ves seen men get kicked in the face and not go out (bloody, nose, etc), but I also know of instances where men have gotten kicked in the head and it killed them right there (in overseas rebellion street fighting). Depends on the area struck and the force applied (and even the footwear). It's probably true that Craig should have had a harder time taking out the men in the elevator than the hotel assassin, but I'm giving a little artistic license to the idea that he was on guard going into the hotel room but was taken by surprise, where as in the elevator he had a few moments to measure up his space and situation and the men next to him and the sequence he need to move in to overcome them.
Agreed it was a missed opportunity with EON only concerned with keeping the ship afloat and the cash coming in. They had mixed experiences with changing the actor, but should have listened to Moore when he felt it was time to go. For his part his reputation and standing have been damaged in favour of a few more pay days. His call of course, hope that they are both happy with the choices they made. The series did suffer as a consequence.
You have been sacked, haven't you...
To me I feel like the movies themselves weren't up to par in the late 70s/early 80s. And Roger gets stuck with taking a fall for the writer/directing decisions of that time period. Most complaints about Moore's films would likely still be the same with any other actor playing Bond in those films. A younger Bond in there could've only helped so much, with things like stunts/poon and such.
Maybe Moonraker should of been enough, that was his fourth outing, FYEO was quite good and Moore actually DID seem to take the role seriously for once
But Octopussy and View to a Kill was just a license for Moore to eyebrow and smirk his way through a payday wearing a range of bizarre outfits and totally inplausible "action" pieces
i.e A 57 year old Bond/Moore hangs on to a airship/blimp rope and sails across San Francisco, hitting objects and slamming into the Golden Gate bridge without injury and then leaping about dodging bullets.
I rest my case
70s Moore DAF-MR
80s Dalton FYEO-LTK
90s Brosnan GE-TWINE
00s Craig CR-Bond 23......
Catatonic rather than inert
I'd still rather see Moore in AVTAK than Connery in NSNA, age-wise.
That said, a mid-30s Bond in the mid-80s would have bought a younger generation, who were content with Harrison Ford (not actually that youthful, but seemed it) as Indy.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
AVTAK is just an ultimate winner in my books. I loved the Eiffel Tower chase, San Francisco, Sutton's house scenes, the fire at City Hall and how Bond lifts Stacy out of the burning building which to me really represents Moore's exit to the series, and the chase sequence right after. The mine tunnel scenes as well as the Golden Gate Bridge fight were pretty outstanding. Walken portrayed Zorin very nicely. I liked Stacy as the Bond girl despite what people may say. I guess though Moore did seem like 10 years older after Octopussy, and he was different on AVTAK, like FYEO more serious.
Even though I would consider AVTAK one of my favorite Bond films and certainly near the top of the Moore era, had Timothy Dalton done it, it definitely would have ranked top of the entire series. No question -
Octopussy was a good Bond movie but to me it has a lot of flaws. I prefer A View To A Kill.
The answer is yes, Moore should have quit after FYEO.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
A gadget to repair his old wrinkly face perhaps? ........
James Bond- Licence To Kill
James Bond- Licence To Kill
1) No
2) You'll look worse when you're 57
I look worse now!!
Seriously though he was in these films for the money, if u play a character you play him as the character, not as yourself. thank god he never played hitler.
James Bond- Licence To Kill
Moore might not have played !!FLEMINGBOND!!, but he certainly played CinemaBond.
James Bond- Licence To Kill
8-)
And I have wondered, if you could get any lower before these.....
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
James Bond- Licence To Kill
James Bond- Licence To Kill
I have long been a fan of Dalton, and I would have loved for him to have done a few more movies before Brosnan came in.
The Living Daylights is one of my favorite Bond films, and was nice change to get back to roots of Ian Fleming's books after the sillyness of Moonraker, OctoP)ssy and A View to a Kill.