how did Brosnan's tenure lead to such dross as Die Another Die?
Andy007
Posts: 100MI6 Agent
Does anyone know how or see mistakes from his previous films which led to such a dire entry in the series 'Die Another Day'? - when you look at Brosnan's reign, it seemed to start well with GE (which combined grit & charm in good all-round action film) although not one of my favourite Bond films. TND clearly a step back. A selection of poor characters/villains, too much techno emphasis & quick fire shooting. A musical score which leaves nothing to remember. For me TWINE was actually a good follow up to this. A better film in several ways. just seemed a better story, with more convincing characters, better music, cut out many of the needless one-liners that Brosnan used in TND (unfunny imo). But then a story & script comes along in 'Die Another Die' which is dreadful. The script was so poor that i remember watching it in the cinema & guessing the puns before they were delivered, it was so obvious. - lines like 'saved by the bell' in the opening scene! - i knew as soon as he swung off the bell he'd say it. there were others in the film too! But such poor special effects for a huge budget. The opening scene with the surfers! probably the worst image from any Bond film. - followed by Brosnan escaping on the ice scene in the glider. it's embarrassing to watch, so fake. - but what annoys me most is that Die Another Day could have been a half-decent entry in the series. The first half is actually ok. The film is a total write off once it moves to Iceland. i don't recall any Bond film having such a poor 2nd half. Brosnan is not my favourite Bond at all but his reign deserved a better film to finish. - At least the producers acted correctly & the 4-year gap to Casino Royale was so worth it. One of the best Bond films & a great start to Daniel Craig's reign. here's to more, hope Bond 23 delivers..
Comments
Yeah, they can't really be expected to make a library of masterpieces. We got Casino Royale and then Quantum of Solace. Great then good (but it is all subjective).
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Or did they hope, that the audience all forgot to consult their occulists ? ?:)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The rule is, if you can do it practical, do it. If you must have CGI, keep it short and minimal.
Guess they missed the rule and did a whole movie of CGI and CGI needy scenes.
Connery, Lazenby, Dalton & Craig are the more realistic films.
That's what many forget here. In the 70s up to Rambo noone was really interested in realistic movies. If Bond would have followed Fleming during these times, the franchise would be dead!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
But that's besides the point. My point is, I want them to stick to more believable and physical like with Craig, though I understand it needs some room to get less realistic if they want to get back to some more traditional Bond ventures next time...
Yep... I mean the bungee jump was quite cool (although the close up of Bond at the end, firing the grappler was poor) that free-fall was just too farfetched... I'm surprised that it hasn't got more flak to be honest... but there you go. Not really surprising that we got that paragliding scene really... I mean where else did it have to go?
Shame... as there were some great lines, and delivered really, really well...
I have to hold my hands up here and say I absolutely LOVED the opening to Goldeye...yes it's far fetched...yes it doesn't make much sense...but it's blooming brilliant stuff
I think there are some rails or something on the sides of the plane. I'll check tonight. I'm in my fun Bond mood. I just watched A View to a Kill a few days ago. I still like it.
Strangely, I tried to do this stunt many times when I was younger...
I love the OP of Goldeneye right until Bond goes over the mountain in the motorcycle. I remember people laughing at that scene in the theater. Also, I'm not a physics expert but my mind immediately thought that this can't work. I've seen cartoons with characters like Batman catch up to people who are falling. But never a person catch up to a falling plane. Even if the pilot is attempting to pull up that motorcycle shoots by the plane in that scene.
Exactly. Terminal velocity is terminal velocity. I agree with your analysis, spot on.
As to Die Another Day, I enjoyed the references to the past, reminded me of the scene in OHMSS where Bond was cleaning out his desk. My favorite was the watch comment Q makes.
The Vanish was no more outlandish than the laser gun battle and in fact Q's explanation of the technology behind the Vanish was a fairly concise description of the attempts to develop this type of camouflage at the time.
Me too, 77007, the wheelie in LTK always makes me groan, but as others have pointed out these typs of gags were what kept the franchise alive at the time, so if it came down to Bond being a bit silly at times or no Bond, I can live with the periodic silliness.
Reflections in a double bourbon...
Under the same category falls the invisible Vanquish
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There were some great lines in DAD, but oddly I've found the soundtrack a bit muffled, I had to strain to hear them, feeling rather disassociated from the film. "Just surviving..." and "Don't worry, I haven't come to take it back!" (about Hong Kong) were two...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
The Madonna (song) effort was pure garbage, simple as that, even made an ill advised cameo at the fencing club
Craig would of fitted in better for this 2002 release and with a better soundtrack this movie could of gone places
It's still recognized by many as the worst Bond ever along with A View To A Kill and Moonraker.
Bond does hold on to some rails on the sides of the plane. I've been enjoying Octopussy this weekend. Still a fun Bond film. On my third watch/listening right now. I probably should make the upgrade to a DVD/Blu-ray version. I only have the VHS version!
The Madonna track fitted in perfectly with the credits, although I really enjoyed it as a standalone song too. But the title sequence, with the ice and flames, along with the back story of Bond being tortured, was one of the best.
I also thought that 'Another way to die' was brilliant too.... but like Sir Miles has said, there are very few people who enjoyed to song, ah well - can't please all the people all the time
There are none. These 2 are the worst in the series.
Brosnan's beard and scraggly hair after his North Korean prison stint are hilarious though - he looks like Tommy Saxondale!
Licence to Kill. BANG! I defeat your challenge....the only honourable thing for you to do now is to deactivate your account and withdraw from Bonddom forever. Like a non-lethal, non-bloody, non-stabby, internet version of seppuku. (Sorry, just finished reading YOLT).
James Bond 007 flies off into outer space and later drives an Invisible Car
discussion closed
In fact I can't imagine Bond 23 being possibly worse then any of Brosnans last 3 films.
(not trying to start a Brosnan V Craig debate here as I love both but I have not seen any of Brosnan's films since the cinema and they have dated pretty awful and quite actually weak)
Realism obviously plays a part here, of course Bond has always had over the top moments (and hope that carries on) however things were pushed too far, too frequently in Brosnans films and I feel the script writers were well short of ideas (maybe a scenario of pushing them out too quickly)
In summary - I wish Brosnan had been given better films to work with as he was such a great slick Bond
It just goes to show how different the films are nowadays. I can't imagine Daniel Craig would even accept such ideas. Of course DC era is noted as being too serious, I guess a happy medium is needed however I cannot see too much changing from DCs previous films apart from maybe some more verbal humour
Really amazes me that alot of the time the same people that put down Moore and Brosnan films for their cheesy jokes and gags think DCs films need more humor. I put some blame on the fans and their schitzo brains for confusing the franchise direction over the years.
"I want a serious Bond film" "But not like that. that's too serious" " There needs to be less humor" " No that's not enough humor, we need more" Jesus. You can't win.
Yep,we are a difficult and demanding lot and no mistake. But that's what keeps it interesting.
For what it's worth on the humour thing...I think it is more analogue than binary in as much as it's not humour vs no humour, but a spectrum along which the series occupies various points at different times. I do think that the DC era is developing it's own take, and agree that some lighter elements are there, but still feel that it is finding it's unique voice, and personally look forward to that in developing further in 23. The 'harder vs softer' debate is similar, as it is another spectrum. In some ways the darker the film, the more it would benefit from the counterpoint of lighter and more amusing moments, otherwise our boy has no fun at all which seems a bit unfair.