Does anyone rate 'Never say never again' above other Bond films?

Andy007

just wondered does anyone actually rate NSNA above any films in the Bond series.
The only films i could rate it above are probably Diamonds Are Forever & Die Another Day.
can't see how it's better than any of the others..

Higgins

I partly agree with you:

DAF

SilentSpy

I rate Never Say Never Again highly. Let's see...It's better than Quantum of Solace, Die Another Day, Tomorrow Never Dies, Goldeneye, The World is not Enough (maybe tied with it), The Man with the Golden Gun, Diamonds are Forever, Moonraker (same feelings as TWINE), and Octopussy.

NSNA is a better send off for Connery than DAF. Besides, it's Connery and a remake of probably his best Bond film to me. Plus Kim Basinger. It's just a fun Bond movie even without the theme song. I actually like the opening too.

Thunderpussy

The only two Bond films That I got bored watching,( and began to feel how uncomfortable the cinema seating was, my sign the movies not holdinh my attention ) ) was QOS and NSNA. I think they're Both terrible, NSNA only just edging out QOS in the crapiest Bond movie award because. The score was complete dross ( like uninspired elevator music ) and there were large chunks of screen time where nothing happened, the ending underwater felt cramped and small. To me it feels like a TV Movie of the week attempt at a Bond Film. and of course QOS had the decency to be short, if nothing else.

DEFIANT 74205

I rate Never Say Never Again above Goldeneye and Die Another Day. It's nowhere near the worst Bond film - I think Die Another Day has a firm grip on that title, and I hope that no future Bond film would be bad enough to be worse than that.

Thunderbird 2

After my recent anti Tom Ford costuming rant in another thread, I finally I forced myself to rewatch QoS last night either skipping pieces of the the action scenes or using slow play and freeze frame to make sense of them at last. (Except the car chase, I didn't have as much spare time as I thought!) Doing so helped me to finally understand some aspects of what is going on, even if I still don't get Quantum's end objective. I guess in time I will be able to accept QoS in its own way. (A bit like DAD), but not without keeping a finger on the slow play button. Neither of these films were good cinema experiences.

As a result I can confirm that for me, the worst Bond film is def AVTAK. I rewatched that 2 days ago with the audio commentary on, and although that made it mildy entertaining (Patrick McNee and David Yip give delightful recollections of what the work was like) I was equally appauled ot realise that so much effort (in typical Bond production style) had gone into making a film that simply doesn't measure up.

I suppose NSNA and the original CR will always be seen as the "also rans" alongside the EON/Danjaq productions, but I find NSNA an entertaining alterntive take on Thunderball, and Original CR is a hilarious Bondian style prequel to Austin P.

Napoleon Plural

NSNA would make a good 20-minute trailer, I would like to tinker with it but really it doesn't work for me and yes I think it is worse than maybe any Bond film, not least cos Connery looks unnessarily awful in it with an awful toupe, and he's in almost every scene. Damningly it has no good action scenes. It does however have a quick change of scene which always benefits a film, unlike say LTK.

Personally I like AVTAK - better pts, song, great villain and henchwoman, better ally in Tebbit. I don't know why it's on a hate list.

Thunderpussy

I too can't understand why AVTAK is so hated by some, I'ts only crime is to be a basic Standard Bond film, It's not pushing any boundries or trying to be clever. Sure It has it's faults ( Most films do ) Sir Roger is too Old, Stacy's sreaming voice "James" does get annoying. But I watch it alot more than NSNA, which is almost never along with the 67 CR, I have them to complete the collection, not because I like them very much.

Golrush007

I don't rate NSNA higher than any of the EON films. I enjoy all 22 'official' films, depending on what mood I'm in. However, no matter what mood I'm in, I've never managed to like NSNA - and believe me I've tried many times but it simply never grows on me.

Sir Miles

I quite enjoy NSNA....the biggest problem for me is that it has dated terribly - even more so than the early Connery Bond movies...I agree that the music is insipid, but there has been a way around that

I enjoy Connery's take on the 'older' Bond too...maybe there is just a tad too much of the 'nod-and-a-wink' going on too...I don't think it will ever 'worry' my top 10 Bond films..but, on the whole, it's enjoyable enough..

Alex

Fatima rocks, Connery looks/acts great. It starts like gangbusters but the final act is a chore. The tears of Allah induce sleep drool.

I enjoy Shrublands and the motorbike chase, but after Bond rescues Domino from the slave auction the rest of the picture is dipped in Nyquil.

I'll take it over TND and DAD. But OP or AVTAK? Nope, nope, nope .....!

mediapig

I would rank it above Man With the Golden Gun... possibly above Diamonds Are Forever as well.

Blackleiter

I would rate NSNA above every Roger Moore Bond film except The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only. Really - old, slower-moving Sean Connery in NSNA is WAY more convincing and entertaining than old, tired Sir Roger in AVTAK. A View To A Kill = worst Bond film ever! Even worse than Die Another Day. Yeah, I said it! (Back up AVTAK fans, or Stacy gets it right between the eyes! Ohhhhh.....the screaming!!!)

Donald Grant

I actually liked NSNA and rate it higher than Octopussy which was the competing Bond movie that year. I remember enjoying NSNA immensely when it came out. However, it was probably due to Connery's return. I was just starving to see the original cinematic Bond back in action. At the time, it didn't dissapoint. Connery was much older, but in many ways he looked more fit than he did in YOLT. To me it beats most of Moore's efforts except for his first three.

DG

jamesm123

I rate NSNA above Octopussy and all Pierce (apart from GE) films for sure. Ok the film score was pretty bad but it's a feel good experience. Get a projector, hook it up to your stereo, watch NSNA and tell me you turned it off half-way through. I doubt it!

Apanblod

I rate NSNA higher than the following movies: (in order)

A View to a Kill

Quantum of Solace

Tomorrow Never Dies

The World Is Not Enough

Die Another Day

On Her Majesty's Secre... zzz.. Oh sorry, almost fell asleep even from writing the title

The Domino Effect

There are things I like about NSNA, but the things I dislike far outweigh the positives. Although there are some EON Bonds that test my patience, I still prefer the real ones to the fringe one...Connery or no Connery.

Napoleon Plural

I caught a few minutes of NSNA on telly a couple of nights ago. One of my fave scenes, where he returns to his Nice villa in the early hours. Nice bit of quiet, munching on an apple.

The bit where we see him suspicious suddenly and plonks the apple on the forked statue is good, real Bond stuff. Of course, several viewings later you think, how come he's only just noticed what is surely right in front of him?

Then with Blush running away, good camera angles, but Bond gets out his gun to fire and bottles it, or just doesn't bother. He hardly ever fires his gun in this movie.

Other mad stuff, all in a few mins. Is Bond chasing Blush and her accomplices, or they him? Nothing really takes. A couple of jump stunts, the second one looks a bit spluttering, a bit Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Then he's swerving around trying to find Blush (all she has to do his see him and shoot, he's on a bike) and some gates swing shut on him. Why? Who is swinging the gates shut? Or are they automatic.

Then rubbish odd dialogue that posits the idea that Bond is a famous, legendary character (why else would she demand he include her in his memoirs) all just an excuse to get him to use that pen... Oh and of course, turns out Felix Leiter has been watching all along so that's okay, what a crapfest. And the way they evade the police (Bond on a bike, Leiter the boxer) is nicked from the Clement and Le Frenais film Porridge. Connery pedalling like a rickety old man.

oscar rubio

I prefer it over DAF, TMWTGG and AVTAK

Bodie

I wish that I could say I didn't as it always feels vagualy disloyal but I rate it better than the following:

DAF
Moonraker
AVTAK
DAD
QOS

Its not a good Bond movie by any stretch:

The score is terrible
The locations are standard. The move from the Behamas to Nice doesn't seem to be for any logical reason and it hard to tell the two of them apart.
The ending is boring. I undestand why they moved the underwater ending in the novel to the fight aboard the Disco Volante in TB.
Rowan Atkinson's character is irritating.
The fights are slow and unexciting. The fight with Lippe in Shrublands has all the excitement of watching a car rust.
Is it just me or did Felix come across as a more compotent agent than Bond.

However, it does have a few good points:

Brandeaur is a great villian. Fatima Blush is a great henchperson. Wish the two of them had been in an official movie.

With all these things against it it is serious indictment that it is better than some of the official films.

Blackleiter

I second your thought regarding Brandeaur and Barbara Carerra (Fatima Blush) being in an official Bond movie. They were terrrific.

Bodie wrote:

I wish that I could say I didn't as it always feels vagualy disloyal but I rate it better than the following:

DAF
Moonraker
AVTAKBrandeaur is a great villian. Fatima Blush is a great henchperson
DAD
QOS

Its not a good Bond movie by any stretch:

The score is terrible
The locations are standard. The move from the Behamas to Nice doesn't seem to be for any logical reason and it hard to tell the two of them apart.
The ending is boring. I undestand why they moved the underwater ending in the novel to the fight aboard the Disco Volante in TB.
Rowan Atkinson's character is irritating.
The fights are slow and unexciting. The fight with Lippe in Shrublands has all the excitement of watching a car rust.
Is it just me or did Felix come across as a more compotent agent than Bond.

However, it does have a few good points:

Brandeaur is a great villian. Fatima Blush is a great henchperson. Wish the two of them had been in an official movie.

With all these things against it it is serious indictment that it is better than some of the official films.

Kissy Suzuki

I can enjoy NSNA as a cheeky parody of the Bond films, and think it has its moments of humour and wit, with Connery in fine form. However, the production values are a bit cheapskate in places alright, compared to the real thing.

I'd still prefer it to most of Roger Moore's 1980's Bond films though ....

hegottheboot

Never. It's a studio idea of what a "Bond film" is. Everything designed to generate maximum 1983 audience response. Awful. Poor Kershner could have made an interesting Bond film, but unlike Empire Strikes Back had no real control over much of anything. and keeping it to the TB plotline spells its doom.

I now think the 67 CR is some kind of pop culture godawful insane masterpiece.

Napoleon Plural

One point in its favour, it doesn't reference modern politicians or cultural goings-on ie doesn't mention Reagan, Thatcher, it could have fallen into that area but it's still slightly timeless, though not really, with the Jane Fonda workout stuff, video game and rubbish Ford Saloon at Shrublands. The Have a Nice Day joke is actually still topical.

Napoleon Plural

Here's an interesting youtube redone intro. How did they get the older Connery in the gunbarrel?

Eon-ised NSNA opening

Barry Nelson

I hate NSNA and don't really consider it an "official" Bond movie. It does do one thing well though, reinforces just how good the original TB was. Not one second of NSNA is anywhere near as good as TB.

I hated Barbara Carrera, thought her performance was the definition of over-acting, hated the music, hated the global war game, or whatever it was Connery plays against Brandeaur and hated the dance number Connery has with Basinger. Only QOS comes close to being as bad as NSNA.

Moore Than

To be fair, when I originally saw NSNA at the cinema I did not think it was that bad. Just thought it was a pale imitation of TB. I did not see it again for another decade and had to do a double take because I could not believe how awful it was. It's a pale imitation of all the Eon films. The reason it is not trashed more is because of Sean Connery's appearance as Bond.

Loeffelholz

I certainly rate NSNA higher than other Bond films...three of Moore's pictures come to mind ...but then I've always enjoyed Connery's swan song more than just about anyone else here.

Thunderpussy

Until QOS popped along, NSNA was my least watched Bond film and I honestly think
If you take Connery out of it, It's basically a movie of the week, and would of been a
long forgotten curiosity.
Although I accept many enjoy it, Hell some even enjoyed QOS. )

TonyDP

I think Thunderpussy's comment that it looked like a movie of the week pretty well sums up my feelings about NSNA; even on my first viewing in the movie theater on opening day I marveled at just how bad and amateurish a movie it was on all levels: the acting, the dialog, the stereotypical characters, the bad effects, the cheap stunts and Michel LeGrande's unbelievably awful score. Connery himself looked really old and I was afraid that he'd hurt himself if he bent over too quickly. The leering looks he got from every female character were just embarrassing. Filmgoers and critics at the time were really snakecharmed by Connery's return and his participation was really the only thing that drew attention away from the film's shortcomings in the short term.

Still the point of this thread is if NSNA rates better than any of the other films and for me as bad as it is (and it is really bad) it at least offers a measure of comic relief and a certain amount of entertainment value when watching the movie with an MST3K-type mindset. Given my tastes, that's more than I can say for the last couple of movies in the official series which are to me tedious, joyless affairs with a lead who has all the charisma of a plate of meatloaf. At least Connery actually was old when he did NSNA, Craig doesn't have that excuse.

zaphod

TonyDP wrote:

I think Thunderpussy's comment that it looked like a movie of the week pretty well sums up my feelings about NSNA; even on my first viewing in the movie theater on opening day I marveled at just how bad and amateurish a movie it was on all levels: the acting, the dialog, the stereotypical characters, the bad effects, the cheap stunts and Michel LeGrande's unbelievably awful score. Connery himself looked really old and I was afraid that he'd hurt himself if he bent over too quickly. The leering looks he got from every female character were just embarrassing. Filmgoers and critics at the time were really snakecharmed by Connery's return and his participation was really the only thing that drew attention away from the film's shortcomings in the short term.

Still the point of this thread is if NSNA rates better than any of the other films and for me as bad as it is (and it is really bad) it at least offers a measure of comic relief and a certain amount of entertainment value when watching the movie with an MST3K-type mindset. Given my tastes, that's more than I can say for the last couple of movies in the official series which are to me tedious, joyless affairs with a lead who has all the charisma of a plate of meatloaf. At least Connery actually was old when he did NSNA, Craig doesn't have that excuse.

It is truly terrible for all the reasons cited, and Connery should be ashamed. However I'd still take it over Moonraker.