Not at all, and I think it's an excellent point. But I would say that I know women who, indeed, say he is good looking. In addition to individual issues, there may also be impacts from such variables as race and culture. Craig doesn't look like a typical western European, for instance, and some people may be reacting to that.
Really? That's an interesting view point...I would say he has a Nordic look to him, blond, blue eyes... strong jaw (misses on the height though ) ) and an 'outdoor' look to him, and I'm sure it's these qualities that gave him the 'Girl with the dragon tattoo' role.
The interesting thing about Daniel Craig is how different he can look from photo to photo. In some images, he looks impeccably good but not so much in others.
You're so right on that. I just don't think he's that photogenic, some pics he just looks awful - and some he is absolutely stunning.... unfortunately most people remember the not so good ones
I think that actually plays to Craig's strengths in this role. We've been sold over the decades to see the film Bond as a model handsome character, yet the literary character is anything but. Craig looks very dapper in the right poses and lighting, but when he's not, he makes Bond seem more real to me, even though I wish he'd dye his hair. Craig is an actor portraying a character who is supposed to have black hair. It's the same reason you never see a blonde Superman.
I think he does have some of those qualities, but what I hear over and over again from detractors is how he looks more like a Russian or Eastern European than a Western European. You can read some of those comments on these boards. People have frequently compared him to Vladimir Putin, for instance. The perspective of such individuals is that he doesn't look "English" enough, which suggests some or all of the variables I noted. I don't exactly buy into it, but the comments keep coming up again and again.
I guess the more I think about this, I can sort of see your point. (If I squint really hard ) ) His characters do range from country to country, and the one that fits your/their description the best would of course be Tuvia Bielski from Defiance. However, to me it's still an unusual reason why not to see him as attractive, as most of his roles have been British (second is US I think).... perhaps these people expect British men to be tall, dark and look like Brosnan....??
Can't say I've ever had a conversation with one of my girlfriends who's reason why they found him unattractive is because he doesn't look 'British' enough.... but I suppose once people get an opinion, it's hard to shift... just interesting to see the objections and that people are still against him being in a legendary British role because he doesn't quite fit Fleming's exact description....
But.... thats the point, really. Eventhough DC is James Blond, Fleming himself wrote in Moonraker, if I remember correctly, that JB does NOT look particularly English, and that how this was not cause for a concern because he usually works abroad and not in Britain.
Therefore DC might not be to the letter of IF's description, but he is to the spirit of it. (His face I mean, I think there is still too much flash and fashion in DC's wardrobe.....)
Actually, when Fleming had Bond not think he looked particularly English, he was referring to the typical upper class types that frequented Blades (like M) - rather stuffy, older and foppish (not that M was foppish). Fleming drew his inspiration for Bond from many different men he knew during the war, particularly the commandos. Typically way more muscular, athletic and fit than the average civil servant, and during many occasions, very tan, as he would get during his assignments. Most civil service Englishmen during Fleming's era were not particularly fit and were very pale living in England. Bond would have stuck out among those brolly carrying paper pushers, not because he didn't look English, but because he did not look like the stereotypical upper class Brit of the time. Keep in mind it was also because of his dress. He wore single breasted, tropical worsted suits without a waistcoat. Most Englishmen at that time either wore double breasted wool suits or a waistcoat if they ever wore a single breasted variety - another reason Bond would have looked different. Watch any English made film made from the fifties and you'll see what I mean.
Actually, when Fleming had Bond not think he looked particularly English, he was referring to the typical upper class types that frequented Blades (like M) - rather stuffy, older and foppish (not that M was foppish). Fleming drew his inspiration for Bond from many different men he knew during the war, particularly the commandos. Typically way more muscular, athletic and fit than the average civil servant, and during many occasions, very tan, as he would get during his assignments. Most civil service Englishmen during Fleming's era were not particularly fit and were very pale living in England. Bond would have stuck out among those brolly carrying paper pushers, not because he didn't look English, but because he did not look like the stereotypical upper class Brit of the time. Keep in mind it was also because of his dress. He wore single breasted, tropical worsted suits without a waistcoat. Most Englishmen at that time either wore double breasted wool suits or a waistcoat if they ever wore a single breasted variety - another reason Bond would have looked different. Watch any English made film made from the fifties and you'll see what I mean.
Is that so?
What Fleming wrote, to word was: "Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered."
Now I would say that you have reached some pretty far fetching conclusions from the above sentence.
EDIT: Sorry about the abruptness of my answer, my kid was not too keen on AJB and was kicking my shin to get to the PC so my post had to be necessarily brief one.
What I meant was, that there is no class distinction mentioned in the part of MR where IF describes Bond as un-english. He does mention that Bond is "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." But that does not mean that IF intended Bond to look upper class, but not British upper class. I mean, if you take a typical Brittish dockhand from the '60s, I'm willing to bet that he would also fit the description of "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades.".
There just has to be more to it than just being tanned (sunburned) and fit. I have in my library both the
Defence of the Realm; The Authorized History of MI5 by Christopher Andrew, as well as Keith Jeffery's MI6 The History of the Secret Intelligence Service 1909-1949.(VERY interesting read both of them, get 'em as fast as you can, can't recommend them enough.) . Both books have photos of Brit counter- and intelligence operatives of the late '40s, and to be honest, not being English I have a bit hard time to find an operative who would look particularly Brittish. Well except for Kim Philby, of course. Especially the MI6 operatives would look what ever their job demanded, example being Dudley Clarke who was arrested in Madrid in 41 dressed as a woman ( here is a Telegraph story about him: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8017042/MI6s-cross-dressing-spy.html# ). Come to think about it, no spy has ever looked more English than Dudley Clarke in a dress!!! You can find these beauties in pubs all over the British Isles. ) ) )
Bah, back t the topic: my point is, I just can't read the subtle signs that to me would tell if someone is Brit or German or french. Not from these old bw photos from the '40s when every man belonging to the so called "professional class" wore a suit to work.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
A new photo showing Bond in bed with Tonia Sotiropoulou's character and Heineken in hand.
COOL!!! Now that is a Bondism.... Bondage.....Bonding...... well you know what I mean, that I can relate to!
With yet another dark haired identi Bond woman with Olive skin. Nothing against that at all just I am struggling to tell Bond girls apart during the Craig era, as from Solange to this one they all seem to be of a very similar type. perhaps our boy has a strong preference.
I think that in CR, QOS and now SF, the dark-hair was largely requisite for the character in many cases. Kurylenko was Latin American. I'm guessing that when Bond loses himself in SF it's in a country in which the overwhelming majority of people are dark haired and olive skinned (ie Turkey?). Marlohe's character is Asian - or somewhat Asian - so dark haired is pretty much mandatory again. Eva Green and the others could have been blond but it's hard to argue with Green's casting. So I'm not sure that it's an actual preference rather that it either just ties into the script or it was the best person for the role.
Actually, when Fleming had Bond not think he looked particularly English, he was referring to the typical upper class types that frequented Blades (like M) - rather stuffy, older and foppish (not that M was foppish). Fleming drew his inspiration for Bond from many different men he knew during the war, particularly the commandos. Typically way more muscular, athletic and fit than the average civil servant, and during many occasions, very tan, as he would get during his assignments. Most civil service Englishmen during Fleming's era were not particularly fit and were very pale living in England. Bond would have stuck out among those brolly carrying paper pushers, not because he didn't look English, but because he did not look like the stereotypical upper class Brit of the time. Keep in mind it was also because of his dress. He wore single breasted, tropical worsted suits without a waistcoat. Most Englishmen at that time either wore double breasted wool suits or a waistcoat if they ever wore a single breasted variety - another reason Bond would have looked different. Watch any English made film made from the fifties and you'll see what I mean.
Is that so?
What Fleming wrote, to word was: "Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered."
Now I would say that you have reached some pretty far fetching conclusions from the above sentence.
EDIT: Sorry about the abruptness of my answer, my kid was not too keen on AJB and was kicking my shin to get to the PC so my post had to be necessarily brief one.
What I meant was, that there is no class distinction mentioned in the part of MR where IF describes Bond as un-english. He does mention that Bond is "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." But that does not mean that IF intended Bond to look upper class, but not British upper class. I mean, if you take a typical Brittish dockhand from the '60s, I'm willing to bet that he would also fit the description of "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades.".
There just has to be more to it than just being tanned (sunburned) and fit. I have in my library both the
Defence of the Realm; The Authorized History of MI5 by Christopher Andrew, as well as Keith Jeffery's MI6 The History of the Secret Intelligence Service 1909-1949.(VERY interesting read both of them, get 'em as fast as you can, can't recommend them enough.) . Both books have photos of Brit counter- and intelligence operatives of the late '40s, and to be honest, not being English I have a bit hard time to find an operative who would look particularly Brittish. Well except for Kim Philby, of course. Especially the MI6 operatives would look what ever their job demanded, example being Dudley Clarke who was arrested in Madrid in 41 dressed as a woman ( here is a Telegraph story about him: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8017042/MI6s-cross-dressing-spy.html# ). Come to think about it, no spy has ever looked more English than Dudley Clarke in a dress!!! You can find these beauties in pubs all over the British Isles. ) ) )
Bah, back t the topic: my point is, I just can't read the subtle signs that to me would tell if someone is Brit or German or french. Not from these old bw photos from the '40s when every man belonging to the so called "professional class" wore a suit to work.
Yes, it may seem like I'm over reaching in my take of how Bond sees himself in this scene in Moonaker - and I can understand that myself. However, I came to this personal view over the years from analyzing the novels and Fleming himself as well as the culture and time period. When the scene starts out with Bond putting himself in the minds eye of one of the other typical Blades members and how they might be trying to guess who he might be -
'Admiral Sir M-M-: something at the Ministry of Defence.' M. looked like any member of any of the clubs in St James's Street. Dark grey suit, stiff white collar'...etc., and then goes on to contrast how he appears with that - "And what could the casual observer think of him, 'Commander James Bond, GMG,RNVSR', also'something at the Ministry of Defence', the rather saturnine youngman in his middle thirties sitting opposite the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. May have been attached to Templer in Malaya. Or Nairobi. Mau Mau work. Tough-looking customer. Doesn't
look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." - then follows up with being "un English and alien" looking, I got the idea he was he was just thinking that in most circumstances in his off duty daily life - at his gambling club or at the golf courses or at restaurants like Scotts - he was thinking that compared to the average customer he personally felt he looked "un-English". That didn't mean he was correct in that assumption, I think it's just how he perceived himself because of his dress and overall fitness as well as his trade. I always took away from that passage in Moonraker that he was being a bit sardonic and even critical about himself. I realize this is just a personal view and I could be totally wrong and that I maybe reading too much into the passage, but it's just how I feel when I read it. No, I don't think Fleming meant Bond was just comparing himself to the class of men at Blades, I feel he was also comparing himself to average Englishmen who spent most of their life in England and had families and normal jobs. Men who never had tans or appeared in his mind to look "dangerous". In that frame of mind, he probably did feel that he always looked alien and un-English, and sitting there in Blades with M., even more so. It still comes across to me as being a bit overly sardonic and from a feeling of being unaccepted.
Yes, it may seem like I'm over reaching in my take of how Bond sees himself in this scene in Moonaker - and I can understand that myself. However, I came to this personal view over the years from analyzing the novels and Fleming himself as well as the culture and time period. When the scene starts out with Bond putting himself in the minds eye of one of the other typical Blades members and how they might be trying to guess who he might be -
'Admiral Sir M-M-: something at the Ministry of Defence.' M. looked like any member of any of the clubs in St James's Street. Dark grey suit, stiff white collar'...etc., and then goes on to contrast how he appears with that - "And what could the casual observer think of him, 'Commander James Bond, GMG,RNVSR', also'something at the Ministry of Defence', the rather saturnine youngman in his middle thirties sitting opposite the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. May have been attached to Templer in Malaya. Or Nairobi. Mau Mau work. Tough-looking customer. Doesn't
look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." - then follows up with being "un English and alien" looking, I got the idea he was he was just thinking that in most circumstances in his off duty daily life - at his gambling club or at the golf courses or at restaurants like Scotts - he was thinking that compared to the average customer he personally felt he looked "un-English". That didn't mean he was correct in that assumption, I think it's just how he perceived himself because of his dress and overall fitness as well as his trade. I always took away from that passage in Moonraker that he was being a bit sardonic and even critical about himself. I realize this is just a personal view and I could be totally wrong and that I maybe reading too much into the passage, but it's just how I feel when I read it. No, I don't think Fleming meant Bond was just comparing himself to the class of men at Blades, I feel he was also comparing himself to average Englishmen who spent most of their life in England and had families and normal jobs. Men who never had tans or appeared in his mind to look "dangerous". In that frame of mind, he probably did feel that he always looked alien and un-English, and sitting there in Blades with M., even more so. It still comes across to me as being a bit overly sardonic and from a feeling of being unaccepted.
Nice one, CmdrA, Sir!
Maybe your right on the button, maybe it is just the air around him; how his job has turned him into a cosmopolitan citizen, and how his lifestyle differs from the drudgery of the everyday life of his fellow Brits.
I do however have a hard time accepting that theory of JB being so fit that it's that that makes him stand out in the crowd; just put together what Ian Fleming wrote about Bonds physical training, you really won't be THAT fit, even if you keep to it all the time. Those commando types, that IF knew during the war had much harsher regular training regime, and it is obvious from the books that IF was quite unfamiliar with that part of the job.
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Yes, it may seem like I'm over reaching in my take of how Bond sees himself in this scene in Moonaker - and I can understand that myself. However, I came to this personal view over the years from analyzing the novels and Fleming himself as well as the culture and time period. When the scene starts out with Bond putting himself in the minds eye of one of the other typical Blades members and how they might be trying to guess who he might be -
'Admiral Sir M-M-: something at the Ministry of Defence.' M. looked like any member of any of the clubs in St James's Street. Dark grey suit, stiff white collar'...etc., and then goes on to contrast how he appears with that - "And what could the casual observer think of him, 'Commander James Bond, GMG,RNVSR', also'something at the Ministry of Defence', the rather saturnine youngman in his middle thirties sitting opposite the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. May have been attached to Templer in Malaya. Or Nairobi. Mau Mau work. Tough-looking customer. Doesn't
look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." - then follows up with being "un English and alien" looking, I got the idea he was he was just thinking that in most circumstances in his off duty daily life - at his gambling club or at the golf courses or at restaurants like Scotts - he was thinking that compared to the average customer he personally felt he looked "un-English". That didn't mean he was correct in that assumption, I think it's just how he perceived himself because of his dress and overall fitness as well as his trade. I always took away from that passage in Moonraker that he was being a bit sardonic and even critical about himself. I realize this is just a personal view and I could be totally wrong and that I maybe reading too much into the passage, but it's just how I feel when I read it. No, I don't think Fleming meant Bond was just comparing himself to the class of men at Blades, I feel he was also comparing himself to average Englishmen who spent most of their life in England and had families and normal jobs. Men who never had tans or appeared in his mind to look "dangerous". In that frame of mind, he probably did feel that he always looked alien and un-English, and sitting there in Blades with M., even more so. It still comes across to me as being a bit overly sardonic and from a feeling of being unaccepted.
Nice one, CmdrA, Sir!
Maybe your right on the button, maybe it is just the air around him; how his job has turned him into a cosmopolitan citizen, and how his lifestyle differs from the drudgery of the everyday life of his fellow Brits.
I do however have a hard time accepting that theory of JB being so fit that it's that that makes him stand out in the crowd; just put together what Ian Fleming wrote about Bonds physical training, you really won't be THAT fit, even if you keep to it all the time. Those commando types, that IF knew during the war had much harsher regular training regime, and it is obvious from the books that IF was quite unfamiliar with that part of the job.
Bond exhibits element of the jungian archetype 'outsider'. I think that it is important that he always looks slightly wrong or out of context in whatever environment he is in.
I think the comment about fitness is at least as much about the comparison with the usual crowd at Blades rather than him being at the pinnacle of fitness. I think Bond is meant to be in good shape, but if he needs to perform a specific and arduous task e.g. Skiing in OHMSS he has to go into training for it. In addition to his daily regimen we know he gets 'thrown around my that Commando chap ' on a regular basis.
Yes, it may seem like I'm over reaching in my take of how Bond sees himself in this scene in Moonaker - and I can understand that myself. However, I came to this personal view over the years from analyzing the novels and Fleming himself as well as the culture and time period. When the scene starts out with Bond putting himself in the minds eye of one of the other typical Blades members and how they might be trying to guess who he might be -
'Admiral Sir M-M-: something at the Ministry of Defence.' M. looked like any member of any of the clubs in St James's Street. Dark grey suit, stiff white collar'...etc., and then goes on to contrast how he appears with that - "And what could the casual observer think of him, 'Commander James Bond, GMG,RNVSR', also'something at the Ministry of Defence', the rather saturnine youngman in his middle thirties sitting opposite the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. May have been attached to Templer in Malaya. Or Nairobi. Mau Mau work. Tough-looking customer. Doesn't
look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." - then follows up with being "un English and alien" looking, I got the idea he was he was just thinking that in most circumstances in his off duty daily life - at his gambling club or at the golf courses or at restaurants like Scotts - he was thinking that compared to the average customer he personally felt he looked "un-English". That didn't mean he was correct in that assumption, I think it's just how he perceived himself because of his dress and overall fitness as well as his trade. I always took away from that passage in Moonraker that he was being a bit sardonic and even critical about himself. I realize this is just a personal view and I could be totally wrong and that I maybe reading too much into the passage, but it's just how I feel when I read it. No, I don't think Fleming meant Bond was just comparing himself to the class of men at Blades, I feel he was also comparing himself to average Englishmen who spent most of their life in England and had families and normal jobs. Men who never had tans or appeared in his mind to look "dangerous". In that frame of mind, he probably did feel that he always looked alien and un-English, and sitting there in Blades with M., even more so. It still comes across to me as being a bit overly sardonic and from a feeling of being unaccepted.
Nice one, CmdrA, Sir!
Maybe your right on the button, maybe it is just the air around him; how his job has turned him into a cosmopolitan citizen, and how his lifestyle differs from the drudgery of the everyday life of his fellow Brits.
I do however have a hard time accepting that theory of JB being so fit that it's that that makes him stand out in the crowd; just put together what Ian Fleming wrote about Bonds physical training, you really won't be THAT fit, even if you keep to it all the time. Those commando types, that IF knew during the war had much harsher regular training regime, and it is obvious from the books that IF was quite unfamiliar with that part of the job.
- I don't think his fitness actually made him stand out in most circumstances, I think he himself felt it did, along with his dress and his frequent out of season tans. I thought Fleming was trying to convey the idea that in certain circumstances (such as Blades), he thought he felt that he appeared out of place because the average people around him (like M) were middle aged, paunchy, balding, bespectacled office workers types.
You mentioned that a -"typical Brittish dockhand from the '60s would also fit the description of "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades.". True. Even if you put them in an expensive three piece suit in Blades, they would probably be noticeable like Bond, having worked outside in all weather, they would have that well worn face. That's what point I'm trying to make - Bond felt the same way. With his fitness and probably well worn face (don't forget that three inch scar!), he'd probably be able to disguise himself as a dockworker, but in his regular clothes in a pub filled with them he would feel he "stuck out" as he does at Blades. He feels he looks just different enough and feels just different enough because of his profession that the "un-English" label seems to apply. The whole point is that I think he just felt that way, as opposed to it being true in most circumstances.
- As far as his physical training in relation to how the commandoes trained - you're right - to a degree. They did have a harsher training as recruits to be readied for battle, but their regular maintenance training was not required at quiet the same intense level afterwards. I knew a Navy Seal when I was posted overseas and I asked him about his training (this was in the 1970's before it was so well know as it is now). He told me about the hell they went through in their initial training to get to be a SEAL, but after that they only had to work out and train enough to maintain their skills and fitness, which was close to - but not as horribly demanding as the initial training was. It was only enough to maintain their physical strength and endurance (they were tested on a regular basis). Bond would not have to be quite in the same league as these soldiers, but he would still have to maintain a level of fitness above what the ordinary civilian would at that time - or even the average spy - they only had to gather intelligence and recruit other spies. A 00 was a special category in Fleming's version of the Service. Being a combination spy/commando/assassin, they would have to be in a physical condition quite a cut above the average field agent. Not as much as say, an SAS commando, but more than an MI6 operative - somewhere in between. Even though Fleming rarely mentioned Bond's training since it wasn't necessary to the plots, I'm sure it would have been on a regular basis - not as much or as intense as regular SAS soldiers performed, but at least as much as probably professional boxers and martial artists require.
Comments
http://twitpic.com/ayr9g5
http://twitpic.com/ayr9xb
http://twitpic.com/aythc8
http://twitpic.com/aytg6x
http://twitpic.com/ayswi6
http://twitpic.com/ayswz1
http://twitpic.com/aysxdy
http://twitpic.com/aysfro
http://twitpic.com/aysx6m
http://twitpic.com/aysdso
http://twitpic.com/aysefc
http://twitpic.com/ayqn9p
http://twitpic.com/aysf2a
I think that actually plays to Craig's strengths in this role. We've been sold over the decades to see the film Bond as a model handsome character, yet the literary character is anything but. Craig looks very dapper in the right poses and lighting, but when he's not, he makes Bond seem more real to me, even though I wish he'd dye his hair. Craig is an actor portraying a character who is supposed to have black hair. It's the same reason you never see a blonde Superman.
Actually, when Fleming had Bond not think he looked particularly English, he was referring to the typical upper class types that frequented Blades (like M) - rather stuffy, older and foppish (not that M was foppish). Fleming drew his inspiration for Bond from many different men he knew during the war, particularly the commandos. Typically way more muscular, athletic and fit than the average civil servant, and during many occasions, very tan, as he would get during his assignments. Most civil service Englishmen during Fleming's era were not particularly fit and were very pale living in England. Bond would have stuck out among those brolly carrying paper pushers, not because he didn't look English, but because he did not look like the stereotypical upper class Brit of the time. Keep in mind it was also because of his dress. He wore single breasted, tropical worsted suits without a waistcoat. Most Englishmen at that time either wore double breasted wool suits or a waistcoat if they ever wore a single breasted variety - another reason Bond would have looked different. Watch any English made film made from the fifties and you'll see what I mean.
Indeed, conversley, abroad Fleming-Bond exhibits every aspect of upper-middles class Englishman overseas compared with the locals.
Is that so?
What Fleming wrote, to word was: "Bond knew there was something alien and un-English about himself. He knew he was a difficult man to cover up. Particularly in England. He shrugged his shoulders. Abroad was what mattered."
Now I would say that you have reached some pretty far fetching conclusions from the above sentence.
EDIT: Sorry about the abruptness of my answer, my kid was not too keen on AJB and was kicking my shin to get to the PC so my post had to be necessarily brief one.
What I meant was, that there is no class distinction mentioned in the part of MR where IF describes Bond as un-english. He does mention that Bond is "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." But that does not mean that IF intended Bond to look upper class, but not British upper class. I mean, if you take a typical Brittish dockhand from the '60s, I'm willing to bet that he would also fit the description of "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades.".
There just has to be more to it than just being tanned (sunburned) and fit. I have in my library both the
Defence of the Realm; The Authorized History of MI5 by Christopher Andrew, as well as Keith Jeffery's MI6 The History of the Secret Intelligence Service 1909-1949.(VERY interesting read both of them, get 'em as fast as you can, can't recommend them enough.) . Both books have photos of Brit counter- and intelligence operatives of the late '40s, and to be honest, not being English I have a bit hard time to find an operative who would look particularly Brittish. Well except for Kim Philby, of course. Especially the MI6 operatives would look what ever their job demanded, example being Dudley Clarke who was arrested in Madrid in 41 dressed as a woman ( here is a Telegraph story about him: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8017042/MI6s-cross-dressing-spy.html# ). Come to think about it, no spy has ever looked more English than Dudley Clarke in a dress!!! You can find these beauties in pubs all over the British Isles.
Bah, back t the topic: my point is, I just can't read the subtle signs that to me would tell if someone is Brit or German or french. Not from these old bw photos from the '40s when every man belonging to the so called "professional class" wore a suit to work.
-Mr Arlington Beech
COOL!!! Now that is a Bondism.... Bondage.....Bonding...... well you know what I mean, that I can relate to!
-Mr Arlington Beech
With yet another dark haired identi Bond woman with Olive skin. Nothing against that at all just I am struggling to tell Bond girls apart during the Craig era, as from Solange to this one they all seem to be of a very similar type. perhaps our boy has a strong preference.
Yes, it may seem like I'm over reaching in my take of how Bond sees himself in this scene in Moonaker - and I can understand that myself. However, I came to this personal view over the years from analyzing the novels and Fleming himself as well as the culture and time period. When the scene starts out with Bond putting himself in the minds eye of one of the other typical Blades members and how they might be trying to guess who he might be -
'Admiral Sir M-M-: something at the Ministry of Defence.' M. looked like any member of any of the clubs in St James's Street. Dark grey suit, stiff white collar'...etc., and then goes on to contrast how he appears with that - "And what could the casual observer think of him, 'Commander James Bond, GMG,RNVSR', also'something at the Ministry of Defence', the rather saturnine youngman in his middle thirties sitting opposite the Admiral? Something a bit cold and dangerous in that face. Looks pretty fit. May have been attached to Templer in Malaya. Or Nairobi. Mau Mau work. Tough-looking customer. Doesn't
look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades." - then follows up with being "un English and alien" looking, I got the idea he was he was just thinking that in most circumstances in his off duty daily life - at his gambling club or at the golf courses or at restaurants like Scotts - he was thinking that compared to the average customer he personally felt he looked "un-English". That didn't mean he was correct in that assumption, I think it's just how he perceived himself because of his dress and overall fitness as well as his trade. I always took away from that passage in Moonraker that he was being a bit sardonic and even critical about himself. I realize this is just a personal view and I could be totally wrong and that I maybe reading too much into the passage, but it's just how I feel when I read it. No, I don't think Fleming meant Bond was just comparing himself to the class of men at Blades, I feel he was also comparing himself to average Englishmen who spent most of their life in England and had families and normal jobs. Men who never had tans or appeared in his mind to look "dangerous". In that frame of mind, he probably did feel that he always looked alien and un-English, and sitting there in Blades with M., even more so. It still comes across to me as being a bit overly sardonic and from a feeling of being unaccepted.
Nice one, CmdrA, Sir!
Maybe your right on the button, maybe it is just the air around him; how his job has turned him into a cosmopolitan citizen, and how his lifestyle differs from the drudgery of the everyday life of his fellow Brits.
I do however have a hard time accepting that theory of JB being so fit that it's that that makes him stand out in the crowd; just put together what Ian Fleming wrote about Bonds physical training, you really won't be THAT fit, even if you keep to it all the time. Those commando types, that IF knew during the war had much harsher regular training regime, and it is obvious from the books that IF was quite unfamiliar with that part of the job.
-Mr Arlington Beech
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-editors/revealed-daniel-craig-surprising-set-hobby-105427034.html
Daniel Craig’s surprising on-set hobby, He's a fan of "Homes under the Hammer "
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-editors/original-bond-girl-controversial-eyebrow-111715989.html
'Skyfall' Clip - Digger vs Train
http://movies.yahoo.com/video/ymovies-6393699/skyfall-clip-digger-vs-train-30786756.html
Bond exhibits element of the jungian archetype 'outsider'. I think that it is important that he always looks slightly wrong or out of context in whatever environment he is in.
I think the comment about fitness is at least as much about the comparison with the usual crowd at Blades rather than him being at the pinnacle of fitness. I think Bond is meant to be in good shape, but if he needs to perform a specific and arduous task e.g. Skiing in OHMSS he has to go into training for it. In addition to his daily regimen we know he gets 'thrown around my that Commando chap ' on a regular basis.
SPOILER ALERT!
The Secrets of Skyfall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ytZBmCIpcM&feature=player_embedded
Very happy to see some of the humor Back in.
and the SPOILER Warning is very apt, some brilliant new footage.
Awesome! 23rd can't come soon enough!
- I don't think his fitness actually made him stand out in most circumstances, I think he himself felt it did, along with his dress and his frequent out of season tans. I thought Fleming was trying to convey the idea that in certain circumstances (such as Blades), he thought he felt that he appeared out of place because the average people around him (like M) were middle aged, paunchy, balding, bespectacled office workers types.
You mentioned that a -"typical Brittish dockhand from the '60s would also fit the description of "Tough looking customer. Doesn't look the sort of chap one usually sees in Blades.". True. Even if you put them in an expensive three piece suit in Blades, they would probably be noticeable like Bond, having worked outside in all weather, they would have that well worn face. That's what point I'm trying to make - Bond felt the same way. With his fitness and probably well worn face (don't forget that three inch scar!), he'd probably be able to disguise himself as a dockworker, but in his regular clothes in a pub filled with them he would feel he "stuck out" as he does at Blades. He feels he looks just different enough and feels just different enough because of his profession that the "un-English" label seems to apply. The whole point is that I think he just felt that way, as opposed to it being true in most circumstances.
- As far as his physical training in relation to how the commandoes trained - you're right - to a degree. They did have a harsher training as recruits to be readied for battle, but their regular maintenance training was not required at quiet the same intense level afterwards. I knew a Navy Seal when I was posted overseas and I asked him about his training (this was in the 1970's before it was so well know as it is now). He told me about the hell they went through in their initial training to get to be a SEAL, but after that they only had to work out and train enough to maintain their skills and fitness, which was close to - but not as horribly demanding as the initial training was. It was only enough to maintain their physical strength and endurance (they were tested on a regular basis). Bond would not have to be quite in the same league as these soldiers, but he would still have to maintain a level of fitness above what the ordinary civilian would at that time - or even the average spy - they only had to gather intelligence and recruit other spies. A 00 was a special category in Fleming's version of the Service. Being a combination spy/commando/assassin, they would have to be in a physical condition quite a cut above the average field agent. Not as much as say, an SAS commando, but more than an MI6 operative - somewhere in between. Even though Fleming rarely mentioned Bond's training since it wasn't necessary to the plots, I'm sure it would have been on a regular basis - not as much or as intense as regular SAS soldiers performed, but at least as much as probably professional boxers and martial artists require.
A new photo of Daniel Craig in action as Bond.
SPOILER ALERT!
SkyFall On Set 007 (2012)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-s7hLD3_Q&feature=player_embedded