How did Goldeneye survive such a flawed opening

Andy007

When you look back at Goldeneye, there are serious issues/flaws within the PTS, yet seem to go unnoticed in many fans reviews. The opening despite having suspense and action is almost enough to fail the film! What with Trevelyan being shot at point-blank with the facility blown up - survives for later in the story. Also the most stupid scene ever with Bond flying into the plane, literally impossible. total nonsense. I mean granted the sky-dive on the dam was a great stunt. But why is this film liked by so many? For me it is not even a top-10 Bond film.Probably 14th on my list. I actually prefer TWINE to this film. Goldeneye is a middle of range action film.

Andy007

just to add, Alec somehow still alive after Bond drops him off the radar, before the satellite collapses on him!

thesecretagent

He didn't survive being shot. It was faked by himself and General Oramov.

thenoisydrum

Like the secretagent says, it was staged. You seem pretty ill informed Andy.
Yeah the stunt jump was a trifle far fetched but this is Bond. I don't quite understand the point here?!?

I can assure you that sitting in the audience watching the opening of this film back in '95 it was an awesome return to the Bond franchise and the PTS went down a storm. A great intro for this new Bond actor with an instant 'classic' feel to it. I saw it twice. The gap between this and LTK was very long and Bond had pretty much died (at least on the big screen). PB was really good for Bond back in '95, I think it was his subsequent Bond films that went down hill - his acting did too.

Mr Beech

thenoisydrum wrote:

Like the secretagent says, it was staged. You seem pretty ill informed Andy.
Yeah the stunt jump was a trifle far fetched but this is Bond. I don't quite understand the point here?!?

I can assure you that sitting in the audience watching the opening of this film back in '95 it was an awesome return to the Bond franchise and the PTS went down a storm. A great intro for this new Bond actor with an instant 'classic' feel to it. I saw it twice. The gap between this and LTK was very long and Bond had pretty much died (at least on the big screen). PB was really good for Bond back in '95, I think it was his subsequent Bond films that went down hill - his acting did too.

I agree. I think it is amongst the memorably good Bond openings personally.

Le Samourai

I essentially liked the GE PTS... up to the flying after the plane sequence. When I saw it in the theaters, people snickered.

That being said, GE never really clicked with me as a film. It was nicely filmed and had some good performances, but overall I tend to think it was just OK, not great. Unlike almost every 007 fan, TWINE was my favorite Brosnan Bond film.

77007

The same way any of the other films over the last 50 years survived their flawed moments.

Sir Miles

Le Samourai wrote:

I essentially liked the GE PTS... up to the flying after the plane sequence. When I saw it in the theaters, people snickered.

I really enjoy the GE PTS....over-the-top action and all....

People laughed in the cinema when I watched it too....but they laughed with it rather than at it....

Napoleon Plural

The opening is a superb, visceral action scene, with the vibe of Errol Flynn as Robin Hood. But sure, it doesn't work logically and I had problems with it, it's just Campbell's direction, it always does that to me. Why would Bond give himself up? Just means he'd get killed too. Then, once he's just doing that, why do they shoot Alec anyway? Of course, we later find out it's a set up. But why bother with that, why not just have 006 shoot Bond when he can? Or is the idea to let him escape? All quite daft.

The free fall into the plane looks stupid and is. For some reason, it got indulged by a willing audience. I saw the storyboards for it at an exhibition and it was done better, it looked more realistic but of course the sfx on it was daft.

SilentSpy

I also believe that TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film. I do believe that the gap between LTK and Goldeneye was favorable towards Brosnan's first entry. However, I still prefer all of the past Bond entries to Brosnan's Bond films. Not that it's Brosnan's fault either. Goldeneye's motorcycle jump off the mountain and skydive into the plane is stupid. A big joke. It's supposed to be as cool as Moore skiing off the mountain in TSWLM but it's not even close.

thesecretagent

thenoisydrum wrote:

Like the secretagent says, it was staged. You seem pretty ill informed Andy.
Yeah the stunt jump was a trifle far fetched but this is Bond. I don't quite understand the point here?!?

I can assure you that sitting in the audience watching the opening of this film back in '95 it was an awesome return to the Bond franchise and the PTS went down a storm. A great intro for this new Bond actor with an instant 'classic' feel to it. I saw it twice. The gap between this and LTK was very long and Bond had pretty much died (at least on the big screen). PB was really good for Bond back in '95, I think it was his subsequent Bond films that went down hill - his acting did too.

I saw it in the cinema also, and the feeling was pretty much unanimous - BOND WAS BACK, AND WOW! Sure people said it was a bit silly, but not in a bad way, more like good escapism. we'd waited a long time for Bond to come back to the screen, and I for one loved it!

I did for one hate the music score throughout though...

Blackleiter

I had the same experience. We in the audience were thrilled that Bond was back, and we didn't quibble over relatively minor flaws. You can find them in EVERY Bond film, from the best to the worst, but I think for most fans it doesn't seriously interfere with their ability to enjoy the movies.

thesecretagent wrote:

thenoisydrum wrote:

Like the secretagent says, it was staged. You seem pretty ill informed Andy.
Yeah the stunt jump was a trifle far fetched but this is Bond. I don't quite understand the point here?!?

I can assure you that sitting in the audience watching the opening of this film back in '95 it was an awesome return to the Bond franchise and the PTS went down a storm. A great intro for this new Bond actor with an instant 'classic' feel to it. I saw it twice. The gap between this and LTK was very long and Bond had pretty much died (at least on the big screen). PB was really good for Bond back in '95, I think it was his subsequent Bond films that went down hill - his acting did too.

I saw it in the cinema also, and the feeling was pretty much unanimous - BOND WAS BACK, AND WOW! Sure people said it was a bit silly, but not in a bad way, more like good escapism. we'd waited a long time for Bond to come back to the screen, and I for one loved it!

I did for one hate the music score throughout though...

Andy007

I did actually enjoy the rest of the movie. But Goldeneye always seems to get a lot of hype, which is unjustified. let's not forget Ouramov shot one of his own men, before he shot Alec, so the concept of it being a setup fails! He had to be using blanks for a set-up, yet clearly kills his own man shortly before 006. i don't get how this isn't realised during the making of it.

Hardyboy

To my mind, the only PTS that nearly kills a film is the one for A View to a Kill. The insertion of "California Girls" was so ridiculous that, die-hard Bond fan that I am--even back in 1985, I nearly walked out. Compared to that, GoldenEye's opening is a masterpiece of subtlety and logic!

Blackleiter

I almost forgot about that one! Absolutely the worst PTS (but then again, I consider AVTAK the worst Bond film of them all, period!)

Hardyboy wrote:

To my mind, the only PTS that nearly kills a film is the one for A View to a Kill. The insertion of "California Girls" was so ridiculous that, die-hard Bond fan that I am--even back in 1985, I nearly walked out. Compared to that, GoldenEye's opening is a masterpiece of subtlety and logic!

Sir Miles

thesecretagent wrote:

and the feeling was pretty much unanimous - BOND WAS BACK, AND WOW! Sure people said it was a bit silly, but not in a bad way, more like good escapism. we'd waited a long time for Bond to come back to the screen, and I for one loved it!

I'm with you all the way there, tsa....good escapism in a traditional Bond way....see, some people are NEVER satisfied )

SpectreBlofeld

thesecretagent wrote:

He didn't survive being shot. It was faked by himself and General Oramov.

The particular method of faking 006's execution always bugged me. How did Ouromov pull that off, considering he used that same pistol to shoot his man that accidentally fired his AK?

Also, they clearly had planned to kill Bond from the beginning - they tried very hard to kill him dead before he jumped off that cliff. Obviously letting him go wasn't the plan, so why fake the execution for Bond's benefit?

zaphod

Sir Miles wrote:

thesecretagent wrote:

and the feeling was pretty much unanimous - BOND WAS BACK, AND WOW! Sure people said it was a bit silly, but not in a bad way, more like good escapism. we'd waited a long time for Bond to come back to the screen, and I for one loved it!

I'm with you all the way there, tsa....good escapism in a traditional Bond way....see, some people are NEVER satisfied )

Agreed. Although I think the PTS would have been better without the leap into the Plane, I remember that the audience in the theatre just went with it and laughed with it and not at it. It's a very difficult thing to pull off. It's possible that we were all so glad to see Bond back that we indulged GE a fair bit. It does not play as well today perhaps.

thesecretagent

Andy007 wrote:

I did actually enjoy the rest of the movie. But Goldeneye always seems to get a lot of hype, which is unjustified. let's not forget Ouramov shot one of his own men, before he shot Alec, so the concept of it being a setup fails! He had to be using blanks for a set-up, yet clearly kills his own man shortly before 006. i don't get how this isn't realised during the making of it.

This could be debated 'till the cows come home. Maybe Oramov had the blank cartridge as the second. A live in the beach, then a blank. I've loaded many magazines with combinations of hollow-point, ball, armour piercing and tracer. I didn't see blood or splatter on the soldier, maybe he was briefed and faked being shot...

Napoleon Plural

Andy007 wrote:

Let's not forget Ouramov shot one of his own men, before he shot Alec, so the concept of it being a setup fails! He had to be using blanks for a set-up, yet clearly kills his own man shortly before 006. i don't get how this isn't realised during the making of it.

It's a shoot first, ask questions later movie!

I'm not sure if that part of the film was a set-up; that is maybe they thought they'd capture Bond with Alec, instead they had to lure him out at that point. Or maybe... oh I give up.

TonyDP

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Andy007 wrote:

Let's not forget Ouramov shot one of his own men, before he shot Alec, so the concept of it being a setup fails! He had to be using blanks for a set-up, yet clearly kills his own man shortly before 006. i don't get how this isn't realised during the making of it.

It's a shoot first, ask questions later movie!

I'm not sure if that part of the film was a set-up; that is maybe they thought they'd capture Bond with Alec, instead they had to lure him out at that point. Or maybe... oh I give up.

Did you ever see Sleuth with Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine? There's a scene where Olivier fools Caine into thinking he's going to be killed. He shoots Caine with a blank, after using two real bullets to set up the gag.

It doesn't take much to come up with a rationalization if you really want to and I can name at least one improbable situation from every Bond movie.

Personally, I loved the GE PTS; it was a throwback to those classic PTS sequences from the Connery era that were almost self-contained mini-adventures and it's always satisfying when it ends with a big explosion. Yes its over the top, but Bond used to make a living selling "over the top".

oscar rubio

Andy007 wrote:

When you look back at Goldeneye, there are serious issues/flaws within the PTS, yet seem to go unnoticed in many fans reviews. The opening despite having suspense and action is almost enough to fail the film! What with Trevelyan being shot at point-blank with the facility blown up - survives for later in the story. Also the most stupid scene ever with Bond flying into the plane, literally impossible. total nonsense. I mean granted the sky-dive on the dam was a great stunt. But why is this film liked by so many? For me it is not even a top-10 Bond film.Probably 14th on my list. I actually prefer TWINE to this film. Goldeneye is a middle of range action film.

I think it was a lie Urumov firing, but the scene that you say, the vacuum jump to the Spanish fans is one of the most absurdas.Para me the teasser / open Goldeneye is perfect flagpole that stands out from the plane

Golrush007

Logic issues aside, I have always liked the GE pre-title sequence. And I regard the film itself as one of the top 5 Bond films. It is the only Brosnan film that I don't have any big complaints with. The only thing that is below par is some of the music in my opinion.

Hardyboy

Let's see. . .we've had a PTS (pre-title sequence for you newbies) that has an Aston-Martin that sprays more water than it could possibly hold; one where Bond apparently goes skiing with a Union Jack parachute packed on his back; and one where fully-fueled space shuttles are carried on the backs of jet planes. . . GoldenEye's lack of a logical PTS doesn't make it an oddity; it shows that the film really is part of the family!

oscar rubio

The James Bond movies are mostly very fanciful, therefore should not be alarmed, therefore, is one of the many "exploits" that holds our hero, is what I think

Golrush007

Hardyboy wrote:

Let's see. . .we've had a PTS (pre-title sequence for you newbies) that has an Aston-Martin that sprays more water than it could possibly hold; one where Bond apparently goes skiing with a Union Jack parachute packed on his back; and one where fully-fueled space shuttles are carried on the backs of jet planes. . . GoldenEye's lack of a logical PTS doesn't make it an oddity; it shows that the film really is part of the family!

Very good point there, Hardyboy.

Andy007

it's no way a top-5 Bond film. that's ridiculous. If anything TWINE is arguably his best Bond film - and that is hardly known as one of the best in the series. Brosnan's films are fun, action-packed 90's films. But they do not compete with the classic films (1-16) or Casino Royale with Craig.

Blood_Stone

It's sh**ty writing. Just ignore it.

bailorg

Honestly, by the time GE was released, people were so happy to see a Bond movie again, no one cared about the plot, logic, the terrible humor, soundtrack, Brosnan's relatively lousy performance, etc.

Napoleon Plural

Hardyboy wrote:

To my mind, the only PTS that nearly kills a film is the one for A View to a Kill. The insertion of "California Girls" was so ridiculous that, die-hard Bond fan that I am--even back in 1985, I nearly walked out. Compared to that, GoldenEye's opening is a masterpiece of subtlety and logic!

The funny thing is, I was 15 when I saw that at Odeon L Square and the audience loved it! It was a great atmosphere, and that has affected my view of the scene. Two months later I saw it in a nearly empty fleapit and the scene fell flat and felt embarrassing.

The thing about other illogical pts scenes is that as a kid you don't care about the water coming out of the Aston, it more or less makes sense, but watching as adults it's different. The storyboards for the GE pts made the freefall seems more plausible, and couldn't have Bond used his grappling gun in the first scene to haul himself into the plane?

hegottheboot

It was really the 6 year gap that made this work. The audience was willing to chuck their sense of reality at the door.

The problem with the Brosnan films (save for TWINE) is that they give the distinct impression of being "on-rails". There is little actually presented in them, and very little Brosnan is allowed to do with the character.

What Goldeneye does best is style. This it has in spades. I always enjoyed the color scheme and somewhat subdued pace because it gave a more real world feeling to firmly place our Cold War hero in the post-Cold War world.

And I enjoy the score now. Took a long time to grow on me, but it has.

The Brosnan films need the big screen to really work. Re-watching them on video at home will highlight all of their flaws. Theatrically they always seem fantastic, and even seem better on a projector and sound system. I'm still trying to get the original full bitrate DTS Laserdisc with the theatrical mix so I can annoy the neighbors.

If only the film could have been as good as the teaser trailer....