I think the only way for me to really understand it is to follow a team through a season. I watched a rebroadcast of a Sunderland-Chelsea game the other day. Both teams have very ehthusiastic fans. I'm going to get my schedules down and then follow one or the other team, I don't have any connection to them at all, but they happenend to be on TV the other day when I turned on the sports channel. I guess I could follow Derbyshire, where my father's ancestors are from.
Derbyshire don't have a team as such...you would need to find the town or city they came from...
Derby County ... actually not a bad team to follow: doing well in the Championship (2nd tier league football), great history, loyal fans ...
Mind you, you can't really go wrong supporting the mighty Lillywhites ... flying pretty high in the Premiership (top tier), super squad, great ground and support, and magnificent history.
Now, onto the original question (with apologies for my tone): a Missouri resident confused about how football works over here. I've been struggling to work out the US version of football for the past few months. I'd always watched games, but the rules as to who plays who in the regular season is just mind numbingly confusing. Even post season (hang on, no one has won anything yet, how can it be post-season??) is peculiar with certain teams getting "wildcard" draws enabling "losers" to win and yet winners only get to play one game less ... and could lose And no one gets relegated or promoted? Where's the jeopardy? There is none, they get to pick the best draft. Crazy.
I am probably not the best person to ask about American football. It is supposed to work as filtering of two divisions, what actually used to be two separate leagues. I'm not always sure it does. The "post-season" tag came about, as best I remember, in the late 70s or early 80s. Our sportscasters are notorious for making up words, mainly because most of them failed English in high school. Also, I like the English system of the worst teams getting less money, which also should be used in our baseball, which I do like to watch.
I like soccer for one big reason, it is a relatively inexpensive sport for a school or civic team to participate in, it's big in our little town. We are a county of 40,000+ folks and we have about 20 civic teams and 4 high school teams; we have 10 soccer fields. I hope to see more American particiaption in the world scene. I think that our civic leagues, currently sponosred by groups such as The Rotary Club, Masonic Lodges, Knights of Columbus etc. will morph into a system similar to England's.
I'm 58 years old and I played soccer a little in high school, we had a coach who went to school in Spain, he loved soccer. However, there were no other HS soccer teams, so it was all intra-mural.
I've just never been able to unravel the system used in England and Europe. I'm wanting to visit England and Wales as soon as possbile and I will make it a point to be there for a major game somewhere. Everyone has been very helpful.
BTW, I'm an unrepentant Anglophile. I loved my time in London and East Anglia and I enjoyed serving with your RAF.
"I don't know if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or imbeciles who mean it."-Mark Twain
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
Enjoy your trip when you make it ... football is not the cheapest entertainment out there (especially if you try and go and see a big team ... just try and get a ticket to Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man U or City the week before a game! Difficult and/or horribly expensive), but during the season (Sept through early May) and there are professional games everywhere. With 92 clubs playing most weekends, there's football around somewhere and at some level.
I suspect that it's only a matter of time before football/soccer is as common in the US as it is in the rest of the world. I seem to remember reading recently that it is the most played sport in the US. It just needs to get a foothold as a spectator sport as well as a participatory sport. It will come ... it's such a "grass roots" sport and that is already in place in the US. As has already been said in this thread, most modern top level teams in the UK started as local amateur squads (Tottenham started as Hotspur FC, made up of a group of boys from a bible class at a local church who also happened to be keen cricketers from the Hotspur cricket club).
For further information about the league system in England and Wales (Scotland have their own similar but smaller league), the wiki page is very structured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system. The thing to remember is that the system is very egalitarian ... if a group wanted to set up a team and make a go of it, they did (and to a lesser extend these days still do) ...
Now don't get me started on baseball ... I love it, but then it appeals to me in the same way cricket does.
Both Manchester teams out of the fa cup And the European champions league
Oh well there is always the Europa league (known as the inter-failures cup)
It will be almost surreal seeing Manchester United in the Europa League. To see more teams competing and winning the Premier League is necessary otherwise it will die a slow death as fans will gradually lose interest, IMO. Manchester United have dominated for too long.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Reading about Harry's tax-dodging in this morning's paper. HMP Pentonville mighty have an extremely well organised football team shortly.
Doubt it ... from what I've heard, tactics are not his strong suit, so he'll need the playing talent there first . He gets the right type of players in and gives them the motivational drive to succeed.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next week or so ...
It will be almost surreal seeing Manchester United in the Europa League.
But bloody funny )
Absolutely, Sir Miles. I need all the laughs I can get being a Luton Town fan. Had to endure a fair amount of pain the last few years including administration, points deductions, relegation to the Blue Square Premier, then missing out on promotion back to the football league in the play off's the last two seasons. It looks like the play off's again this season. Third time lucky I hope.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Absolutely appalling scenes. There's been a long history of violence at Egyptian football and although the Muslim Brotherhood are very quick to put the blame on politics, the old Mubarak regime and the inadequacies of the interim government, in my opinion it's just as likely that this is just old-fashioned hooliganism taking advantage of the lack of security in the stadium...and the Muslim Brotherhood taking advantage of the situation to slag the old guard and the new guard. There'll always be those who spin anything to their own benefit. But regardless, as usual it's the innocents and the average footiball fan who suffers.
I think 'appy 'arry would make a great Bond Villain. He could sit at a large table stroking a cat, one eye twitching, his head twitching, and say "No Mister Bond, I don't expect you to talk, I expect you to take a bung."
Yup, he's gone. I'm disappointed that it didn't work. I thought he'd be just the man to get those overpaid, arrogant, lazy, money-crazed b*ggers to actually work because he had an ego bigger than theirs. But, apart from a few decent qualifying matches, we were still as crap as ever when it came to the actual competitions.
Fingers crossed that we get an interim manager - Stuart Pearce perhaps - until the end of the season, and then get 'appy 'arry in for the Euros. He won't lead us to win it, but we could make the semis with him at the helm.
Note for Spurs supporters...I feel really, really sorry for you if you lose Redknapp. He's done an absolutely amazing job with Spurs and proven that you don't have to be owned by a billionaire to compete. I'm sure you'll be gutted if he goes.
I do have a little sympathy for Fabio Capello. He's right in believing that John Terry is innocent until proven guilty but he should not have spoken out in public the way he did. But then Terry should never have been given the captaincy back in the first place. He may be a good leader of men but he is a bad role model, IMO.
Amazing day for Harry Redknapp. This evening he could have been in jail and now he could be the England manager. I have no doubt he would be a very popular choice with both the fans (except Tottenham) and the players.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Note for Spurs supporters...I feel really, really sorry for you if you lose Redknapp. He's done an absolutely amazing job with Spurs and proven that you don't have to be owned by a billionaire to compete. I'm sure you'll be gutted if he goes.
Yup, he's gone. I'm disappointed that it didn't work. I thought he'd be just the man to get those overpaid, arrogant, lazy, money-crazed b*ggers to actually work because he had an ego bigger than theirs. But, apart from a few decent qualifying matches, we were still as crap as ever when it came to the actual competitions.
Fingers crossed that we get an interim manager - Stuart Pearce perhaps - until the end of the season, and then get 'appy 'arry in for the Euros. He won't lead us to win it, but we could make the semis with him at the helm.
Note for Spurs supporters...I feel really, really sorry for you if you lose Redknapp. He's done an absolutely amazing job with Spurs and proven that you don't have to be owned by a billionaire to compete. I'm sure you'll be gutted if he goes.
He's been a "triffic top, top" manager for Spurs alright, but you can be sure that Daniel Levy will screw the English FA for mega bucks compensation if he goes now.
The FA and Harry Redknapp were understandably guarded in some of their comments earlier today. The FA saying they will draw up a shortlist for manager but at the same time stating that someone with an English or British background would have an advantage. And they would also take into account the wishes of the fans. Redknapp said his focus remains at Tottenham but did not rule himself out of the running.
At this moment, Redknapp remains the clear favourite. In the meantime Stuart Pearce will take charge for the friendly match against Holland later this month.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
I was teaching Parish School of Religion last night and I had 4 Hispanic teenagers in my class for the first time. They are new to our area. Three of them are from Mexico and one from Costa Rica. I mentioned soccer and we got off on a tangent. What was funny was I mentioned the English and these boys knew all the teams in England, the players, the statistics and the gossip. Two of the boys had been to England and saw your teams up close and personal. The costa Rican boy is a big fan of Brazil.
"I don't know if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or imbeciles who mean it."-Mark Twain
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
Is it impossible for Harry to do both Spurs and England for the next few months? Didn't Keegan do the same with Newcastle?
It's not impossible. A more likely scenario would be that Harry stays on as manager at Tottenham until the end of the season before taking over as England manager. In the meantime, Stuart Pearce would continue to be the caretaker briefing Harry on a regular basis to keep him up to date.
Not an ideal scenario but my impression is that Harry would/does not wan't to leave Tottenham at short notice.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Is it impossible for Harry to do both Spurs and England for the next few months? Didn't Keegan do the same with Newcastle?
It's not impossible. A more likely scenario would be that Harry stays on as manager at Tottenham until the end of the season before taking over as England manager. In the meantime, Stuart Pearce would continue to be the caretaker briefing Harry on a regular basis to keep him up to date.
Not an ideal scenario but my impression is that Harry would/does not wan't to leave Tottenham at short notice.
I think/hope that's exactly what will happen. Pearce is likely a very good transition between Capello and Redknapp. As you say, he can keep Redknapp up to date on what's happening while Harry concentrates on getting Spurs top three. Then Harry can swoop in at the end of the season and lead England to the Euros. It will be very interesting to see what Harry does in Poland/Ukraine. Will he stick with the current England squad even though there's some dead wood that needs to be purged, or will he immediately start bringing in some of the younger, bright prospects even though they wouldn't have had much chance to acclimatise and gel before the tournament. I'd like to see the latter, myself.
Is it impossible for Harry to do both Spurs and England for the next few months? Didn't Keegan do the same with Newcastle?
It's not impossible. A more likely scenario would be that Harry stays on as manager at Tottenham until the end of the season before taking over as England manager. In the meantime, Stuart Pearce would continue to be the caretaker briefing Harry on a regular basis to keep him up to date.
Not an ideal scenario but my impression is that Harry would/does not wan't to leave Tottenham at short notice.
I think/hope that's exactly what will happen. Pearce is likely a very good transition between Capello and Redknapp. As you say, he can keep Redknapp up to date on what's happening while Harry concentrates on getting Spurs top three. Then Harry can swoop in at the end of the season and lead England to the Euros. It will be very interesting to see what Harry does in Poland/Ukraine. Will he stick with the current England squad even though there's some dead wood that needs to be purged, or will he immediately start bringing in some of the younger, bright prospects even though they wouldn't have had much chance to acclimatise and gel before the tournament. I'd like to see the latter, myself.
In a sense Harry Redknapp would have nothing to lose by making wholesale changes but I see him sticking mainly with the current squad and bringing along a couple of the younger bright prospects to give them the experience of a major tournament. I would be happy to see more of these youngsters as I see it benefitting the team more in the longer term.
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Be a disaster for Spurs if Harry tries to do both jobs at once. Alex Ferguson tried that when he became caretaker Scotland manager in 1985 after Jock Stein's death and Aberdeen's league form suffered. Mind you they did win the Scottish Cup.
I get the impression that 'arry's very 'appy at Spurs and although I can't imagine he'd turn down the England job, I would be equally surprised if he left White Hart Lane before the end of the season. If the FA were stupid enough (the FA? Stupid enough? Never!) and gave him an ultimatum, it would be interesting to see what his resposne would be. Considering that he's realistically the only candidate and the fans' overwhelming favourite, I don't think they'd do that. I hope.
Okay, but who could be caretaker coach? Even then I wouldn't mind if Harry took over for the tournament itself. Pardon my late night thickness but have we actually qualified? Realises.... We have of course, so it's a formality in a way cos Spurs season would be over.
Harry Redknapp has hinted that he may take the England job on a part time basis only, for Euro 2012. He insists "it wouldn't be fair to walk out on Spurs". Is this part of a bargaining ploy or does he really mean it?
Comments
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I am probably not the best person to ask about American football. It is supposed to work as filtering of two divisions, what actually used to be two separate leagues. I'm not always sure it does. The "post-season" tag came about, as best I remember, in the late 70s or early 80s. Our sportscasters are notorious for making up words, mainly because most of them failed English in high school. Also, I like the English system of the worst teams getting less money, which also should be used in our baseball, which I do like to watch.
I like soccer for one big reason, it is a relatively inexpensive sport for a school or civic team to participate in, it's big in our little town. We are a county of 40,000+ folks and we have about 20 civic teams and 4 high school teams; we have 10 soccer fields. I hope to see more American particiaption in the world scene. I think that our civic leagues, currently sponosred by groups such as The Rotary Club, Masonic Lodges, Knights of Columbus etc. will morph into a system similar to England's.
I'm 58 years old and I played soccer a little in high school, we had a coach who went to school in Spain, he loved soccer. However, there were no other HS soccer teams, so it was all intra-mural.
I've just never been able to unravel the system used in England and Europe. I'm wanting to visit England and Wales as soon as possbile and I will make it a point to be there for a major game somewhere. Everyone has been very helpful.
BTW, I'm an unrepentant Anglophile. I loved my time in London and East Anglia and I enjoyed serving with your RAF.
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
Enjoy your trip when you make it ... football is not the cheapest entertainment out there (especially if you try and go and see a big team ... just try and get a ticket to Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man U or City the week before a game! Difficult and/or horribly expensive), but during the season (Sept through early May) and there are professional games everywhere. With 92 clubs playing most weekends, there's football around somewhere and at some level.
I suspect that it's only a matter of time before football/soccer is as common in the US as it is in the rest of the world. I seem to remember reading recently that it is the most played sport in the US. It just needs to get a foothold as a spectator sport as well as a participatory sport. It will come ... it's such a "grass roots" sport and that is already in place in the US. As has already been said in this thread, most modern top level teams in the UK started as local amateur squads (Tottenham started as Hotspur FC, made up of a group of boys from a bible class at a local church who also happened to be keen cricketers from the Hotspur cricket club).
For further information about the league system in England and Wales (Scotland have their own similar but smaller league), the wiki page is very structured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system. The thing to remember is that the system is very egalitarian ... if a group wanted to set up a team and make a go of it, they did (and to a lesser extend these days still do) ...
Now don't get me started on baseball ... I love it, but then it appeals to me in the same way cricket does.
Reading about Harry's tax-dodging in this morning's paper. HMP Pentonville mighty have an extremely well organised football team shortly.
ITV News sketch artist seem to have drawn Sven Goran Eriksson instead though.
Both Manchester teams out of the fa cup And the European champions league
Oh well there is always the Europa league (known as the inter-failures cup)
It will be almost surreal seeing Manchester United in the Europa League. To see more teams competing and winning the Premier League is necessary otherwise it will die a slow death as fans will gradually lose interest, IMO. Manchester United have dominated for too long.
But bloody funny
Doubt it ... from what I've heard, tactics are not his strong suit, so he'll need the playing talent there first
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next week or so ...
Absolutely, Sir Miles. I need all the laughs I can get being a Luton Town fan. Had to endure a fair amount of pain the last few years including administration, points deductions, relegation to the Blue Square Premier, then missing out on promotion back to the football league in the play off's the last two seasons. It looks like the play off's again this season. Third time lucky I hope.
A real tragedy for Egypt, a tragic reminder for those of us old enough to remember the events of Heysel, Hillsborough and Bradford.
Egypt violence leaves many dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16845841
Harry Redknapp cleared of tax evasion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16925280
Italian coach gone over a cliff...
Capello's a gonno!
According to yahoo, he's resigning... watch this space.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Well, Harry might be getting the job sooner than I thought.
Capello quits as England manager
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16941457
Fingers crossed that we get an interim manager - Stuart Pearce perhaps - until the end of the season, and then get 'appy 'arry in for the Euros. He won't lead us to win it, but we could make the semis with him at the helm.
Note for Spurs supporters...I feel really, really sorry for you if you lose Redknapp. He's done an absolutely amazing job with Spurs and proven that you don't have to be owned by a billionaire to compete. I'm sure you'll be gutted if he goes.
Amazing day for Harry Redknapp. This evening he could have been in jail and now he could be the England manager. I have no doubt he would be a very popular choice with both the fans (except Tottenham) and the players.
I will indeed
He's been a "triffic top, top" manager for Spurs alright, but you can be sure that Daniel Levy will screw the English FA for mega bucks compensation if he goes now.
At this moment, Redknapp remains the clear favourite. In the meantime Stuart Pearce will take charge for the friendly match against Holland later this month.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
'Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.'- Benny Hill (1924-1992)
It's not impossible. A more likely scenario would be that Harry stays on as manager at Tottenham until the end of the season before taking over as England manager. In the meantime, Stuart Pearce would continue to be the caretaker briefing Harry on a regular basis to keep him up to date.
Not an ideal scenario but my impression is that Harry would/does not wan't to leave Tottenham at short notice.
I think/hope that's exactly what will happen. Pearce is likely a very good transition between Capello and Redknapp. As you say, he can keep Redknapp up to date on what's happening while Harry concentrates on getting Spurs top three. Then Harry can swoop in at the end of the season and lead England to the Euros. It will be very interesting to see what Harry does in Poland/Ukraine. Will he stick with the current England squad even though there's some dead wood that needs to be purged, or will he immediately start bringing in some of the younger, bright prospects even though they wouldn't have had much chance to acclimatise and gel before the tournament. I'd like to see the latter, myself.
In a sense Harry Redknapp would have nothing to lose by making wholesale changes but I see him sticking mainly with the current squad and bringing along a couple of the younger bright prospects to give them the experience of a major tournament. I would be happy to see more of these youngsters as I see it benefitting the team more in the longer term.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Harry Redknapp says part-time England role possible for Euros
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17067376