Timothy Dalton, who?

asio

I was speaking with a co-worker recently about various movies, and I mentioned Tim Dalton, to which she replied "Who's that?"

My co-worker would be in her mid-40's so she definately lived through Dalton's years as Bond, however she didn't recognise his name, or even remember that he played 007.

It's probably a fan thing, but I was astounded with this conversation, especially how the press went crazy after the release of The Living Daylights, at one point declaring Dalton to be the best Bond ever.

Has anyone else experienced this lack of love for the great Tim Dalton?

(Serves me right for speaking to the public...)

Moore Than

asio wrote:

Has anyone else experienced this lack of love for the great Tim Dalton?

Hello, Lady Rose.

It seems that all the actors bar Sean Connery are an acquired taste as Bond. Timothy Dalton's portrayal may have come as quite a shock to some after the Roger Moore era. From my point of view he was unfortunate in that he only appeared in two films before the legal hiatus. Since LTK Dalton has pretty much kept a low profile (by accident or design?) which may well explain why your co-worker did not recognise him.

Agent Sidewinder

I was at a friend's flatwarming party a couple of months ago and had a conversation which ended up on the subject of Sean Connery. This is roughly how it went from there....

Me: Blah blah blah, Connery's great 'n' all, but he's not my favourite Bond.
Friend: Who's your favourite Bond, then?
Me: Don't hate me for this but....Roger Moore.
Friend: Ha, he's mine too! I was really afraid you were gonna say....ermm...what's his name, the really bad one.
Me: Timothy Dalton?
Friend: Yes, him!

Interesting how I was somehow expecting to get verbally abused for supporting Rog, and how I knew instinctively that the lady was referring to Timmy D. I don't dislike him that much. Honest.

zaphod

asio wrote:

I was speaking with a co-worker recently about various movies, and I mentioned Tim Dalton, to which she replied "Who's that?"

My co-worker would be in her mid-40's so she definately lived through Dalton's years as Bond, however she didn't recognise his name, or even remember that he played 007.

It's probably a fan thing, but I was astounded with this conversation, especially how the press went crazy after the release of The Living Daylights, at one point declaring Dalton to be the best Bond ever.

Has anyone else experienced this lack of love for the great Tim Dalton?

(Serves me right for speaking to the public...)

It's a sad fact that Tim has very low recognition outside of fan-boys. He is primarily a theatre actor and well respected as a 'quality item' in his sphere, but outside of that...also a number of
Circumstances prevented the momentum from TLD being sustained into LTK (the QOS) of it's day in some ways. History has not served Tim well, and his career never really took off as it could have.
A great Bond in my view, but once again poorly served by EON.

DangerMouse

When I talk to a couple of groups from one pub, they didn't think much of Dalton and liked Moore (Even though they thought his movies are cheesy) and when I talked to one fellow from another pub, he likes Dalton's era and didn't think much of Moore's. So at least someone outside of us fanboys like hm.

James Suzuki

Someone I knew said that Timothy dalton didn't suit Bond becasue he was a 'villian actor' and he had only seen him play villians. Ive only seen him play that dude of hot fuzz but, I dont know

oscar rubio

asio wrote:

I was speaking with a co-worker recently about various movies, and I mentioned Tim Dalton, to which she replied "Who's that?"

My co-worker would be in her mid-40's so she definately lived through Dalton's years as Bond, however she didn't recognise his name, or even remember that he played 007.

It's probably a fan thing, but I was astounded with this conversation, especially how the press went crazy after the release of The Living Daylights, at one point declaring Dalton to be the best Bond ever.

Has anyone else experienced this lack of love for the great Tim Dalton?

(Serves me right for speaking to the public...)

Well, if I had not played Bond, Dalton does not know him

Thunderpussy

I remember reading that the american audiances didn't take to Dalton. May of been
too much of a change from R Moore, Although Many fans liked the change to a
Harder less cheesy Bond. ( as some would put it ) )
He's my Favourite Bond and I feel he got the part off to a tee.

77007

Who's Tim Dalton? Is he related to Timothy Dalton?

jeffch

Thats nothing to the confused looks you get when you throw out Lazenby's name.

Thunderpussy

I've been asked by friends and people who know I'm a Bond Fan that
"Wasn't Lazenby the first Bond but He wasn't any good. So they Got
Connery In and the series was a big Success "
I'm amazed at the amount of People who think this, It might be becoming
a new movie Urban Myth. )
Along with a couple of Friends who where convinced that Lazenby was in bed
with XXX at the start of TSWLM.

Lady Rose

Moore Than wrote:

Hello, Lady Rose.

Now what on earth made you think I'd have to comment on this thread ? )

I must be honest I dont generally meet people who haven't head of him but when his name is mentioned it usually is in a very negative way when its in connection with Bond What annoys me most is when its by people who have never seen his Bond movies and are just jumpig on the old 'he's the rubbish Bond' bandwagon ..... I dont mind people disliking him but at least base it on your own opinion and not someone elses X-(

I think there may be a point about him being a 'villain' actor. Some of his popular roles are usually where he is the villain and sporting a twirling moustache , Hot Fuzz, The Rocketeer ( my personal favourite) , Flash Gordon ... Maybe he should have played Bond with a moustache !! )

As a general fan of his, his strengths are definitley in period dramas and villains.

TonyDP

The whole "Dalton is rubbish" thing is one of those self-fulfilling prophecies that tabloid media perpetuate because his films were box-office disappointments in America. I liken it to critics and moviegoers calling Kevin Costner's Waterworld a terrible movie only to grudgingly admit that they've never actually seen the film when you press them for details. It's often the same with Dalton's Bond movies.

Personally, I've always felt Dalton was let down by his filmmakers. Richard Maibaum and John Glen were really at the end of the road by the time Dalton came on board and they no longer had a grasp on making a Bond movie that would be accessible to a wider audience. I find it interesting that Living Daylights, which was originally written for Roger Moore and still had a lot of the globe-trotting hallmarks of his films, had a very respectable box office take in the USA whereas License to Kill, which was a drastic departure from what audiences were familiar with, flamed out. It also didn't help that LTK came out right around the same time as other box office juggernauts like Batman and Indiana Jones.

I still think that if Dalton had been given a proper vehicle, with a world-spanning plot worthy of Bond. a more notable foil as villain, and a more well thought out release date (back in the 80s Bond was still traditionally a summer release, when there were more blockbusters to contend with) he would have fared better.

James Suzuki

Goldeneye with Dalton, that woulda been cool
:007)
So... Im the guy who wanted Sam Niell as James Bond, that would of been cool

Mrs.Bryce

I've only ever seen Dalton as Bond, but wouldn't mind seeing something else he has acted in, as he seems like he has some acting chops.

I have a similar story, but not really.
I was telling my best friend in the car about how I've liked so many James Bond related things on this blog site I use, and her dad overheard me. knowing my luck he knew about it, and began a James Bond conversation; he seemed a little ill informed or just forgetful with some of his information but it was still fun. He asked me who my favourite was, I replied Roger Moore, but I thought Sean Connery played him with ease and was who I thought played him the best. He agreed, and began asking me about the other actors. Oh, George Lazenby, he was Australian wasn't he? He asked. Yup, sure is! He was pretty good. Not many people like him, but I thought he was good, was his reply. He then spoke about Pierce Brosnan being good, and that new Daniel Craig seemed alright.
He goes back to someone he'd forgotten, poor Timmy. And he ended up mixing up his name to something like Roger Dalton! )
I said ahhah! No it's Timothy Dalton, he was the darker one.
I don't really think he knew about him, or had seen his films either.

I don't dislike Dalton, he comes in about 4th on my list, but I really liked him as Bond.

Moore Than

TonyDP wrote:

The whole "Dalton is rubbish" thing is one of those self-fulfilling prophecies that tabloid media perpetuate because his films were box-office disappointments in America. I liken it to critics and moviegoers calling Kevin Costner's Waterworld a terrible movie only to grudgingly admit that they've never actually seen the film when you press them for details. It's often the same with Dalton's Bond movies.

Personally, I've always felt Dalton was let down by his filmmakers. Richard Maibaum and John Glen were really at the end of the road by the time Dalton came on board and they no longer had a grasp on making a Bond movie that would be accessible to a wider audience. I find it interesting that Living Daylights, which was originally written for Roger Moore and still had a lot of the globe-trotting hallmarks of his films, had a very respectable box office take in the USA whereas License to Kill, which was a drastic departure from what audiences were familiar with, flamed out. It also didn't help that LTK came out right around the same time as other box office juggernauts like Batman and Indiana Jones.

I still think that if Dalton had been given a proper vehicle, with a world-spanning plot worthy of Bond. a more notable foil as villain, and a more well thought out release date (back in the 80s Bond was still traditionally a summer release, when there were more blockbusters to contend with) he would have fared better.

Very good post as always, Tony. I may well be mistaken but I am pretty certain that TLD was not originally written for Roger Moore. He was already out of the picture as I understand it. TLD was originally written for a "generic" (non specific) Bond. Having said that, whether it was written specifically for Moore or not there was clearly quite an influence.

DaltonFan1

Many people seem to assume Dalton was a bad Bond specifically because they haven't seen his films, whereas they couldn't help but see the odd Connery, Moore or Brosnan film and enjoy that like they would enjoy any Bond film. TD only got two films and they came at a time when Bond was less relevant due to the Cold war being all but over, and the Moore era dragging on far past its sell by date.
Despite this, he could still have become better recognised if he had gone on to make Goldeneye and one or two others.

Napoleon Plural

Hmm, never could warm to him. Saw bits of TLD on telly recently, just awful. It's the debriefing with M, and the way it's directed. M all Michael Hordernish, oh, just go out and kill this Russian head can you? Fit up? Framed? Don't be silly! It could work if it were clear the old duffer is under stress and had taken his eye off the ball, or there's been some ratcheting up of tensions between the UK and Soviet Union, but not as written. Then Dalton all heavy and a bit Welsh "It sounds a bit far fetched....' shifting uneasily so the back row of the theatre can see. Then the tinkley music when he meets Kara. 'It was exquisite..' Pass the sick bucket. Like watching Farmer Boldwood in Far From the Madding Crowd.

oscar rubio

DaltonFan1 wrote:

Many people seem to assume Dalton was a bad Bond specifically because they haven't seen his films, whereas they couldn't help but see the odd Connery, Moore or Brosnan film and enjoy that like they would enjoy any Bond film. TD only got two films and they came at a time when Bond was less relevant due to the Cold war being all but over, and the Moore era dragging on far past its sell by date.
Despite this, he could still have become better recognised if he had gone on to make Goldeneye and one or two others.

Totally agree with you,Dalton had very bad luck in his time as Bond, people began to tire of Moore's films, the problems faced by the Eon production, etc ...

Q and M

dalton may not be a big a movie star as the others but thats what in my opinion made him the best bond. he felt human, and he helped put bond on the map again

sambwoy

Did anyone see Looney Tunes: Back In Action? Dalton's playing an actor playing a spy, either he was the only Bond actor available at the time to make a Bond reference in the film, or someone in the crew wanted to pay homage to his 'Bondage' so its not all bad.

His films weren't the best. He is a good actor and he looked interesting.

Grindelwald

Was watching OHMSS in a Bern hostel......the guy watching with me seemed to be skeptical of GL to begin with but by the end of the movie it seemed he had "warmed up" to him , he didn't seem to hate him.

The "obey your husband" line from Draco made him chuckle......by 2012 a pretty dated line I'd say )

cdsdss

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Hmm, never could warm to him. Saw bits of TLD on telly recently, just awful. It's the debriefing with M, and the way it's directed. M all Michael Hordernish, oh, just go out and kill this Russian head can you? Fit up? Framed? Don't be silly! It could work if it were clear the old duffer is under stress and had taken his eye off the ball, or there's been some ratcheting up of tensions between the UK and Soviet Union, but not as written. Then Dalton all heavy and a bit Welsh "It sounds a bit far fetched....' shifting uneasily so the back row of the theatre can see. Then the tinkley music when he meets Kara. 'It was exquisite..' Pass the sick bucket. Like watching Farmer Boldwood in Far From the Madding Crowd.

I caught it recently and was disappointed to find it doesn't hold up as well as I thought. I agree that Jereon Krabbe played his scenes to comically and broad. Then, you have the geriatric bosses Bond reports to that give the whole thing a sense of mustiness. Ugh. On top of that, we never get a true villain. Koskov is a ninny and Whitaker is a buffoon. Neither one is worthy of Bond. And, ultimately, Dalton just never seems comforatable as Bond. Whenever he smiles he just looks like a lizard pretending to be human. He's perpetually ill-at-ease, and not suave at all.

TLD isn't as atrocious as the financially and creatively bankrupt LTK, but it's clear that this creative team needed to be purged in order for Dalton to have had a decent shot at establishing his Bond's persona.

sambwoy

cdsdss wrote:

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Hmm, never could warm to him. Saw bits of TLD on telly recently, just awful. It's the debriefing with M, and the way it's directed. M all Michael Hordernish, oh, just go out and kill this Russian head can you? Fit up? Framed? Don't be silly! It could work if it were clear the old duffer is under stress and had taken his eye off the ball, or there's been some ratcheting up of tensions between the UK and Soviet Union, but not as written. Then Dalton all heavy and a bit Welsh "It sounds a bit far fetched....' shifting uneasily so the back row of the theatre can see. Then the tinkley music when he meets Kara. 'It was exquisite..' Pass the sick bucket. Like watching Farmer Boldwood in Far From the Madding Crowd.

I caught it recently and was disappointed to find it doesn't hold up as well as I thought. I agree that Jereon Krabbe played his scenes to comically and broad. Then, you have the geriatric bosses Bond reports to that give the whole thing a sense of mustiness. Ugh. On top of that, we never get a true villain. Koskov is a ninny and Whitaker is a buffoon. Neither one is worthy of Bond. And, ultimately, Dalton just never seems comforatable as Bond. Whenever he smiles he just looks like a lizard pretending to be human. He's perpetually ill-at-ease, and not suave at all.

TLD isn't as atrocious as the financially and creatively bankrupt LTK, but it's clear that this creative team needed to be purged in order for Dalton to have had a decent shot at establishing his Bond's persona.

I agree with that, and Dalton's regular dismissal by the media down the years has been unfair.

I do feel the Bonds from FYEO to LTK have good material but the way they are directed feel perfunctory. Box office dictated otherwise, however, given that FYEO apparently outdid Lost Ark at the UK box office, but as far more recent film releases have shown, that doesn't necessarily make them good.

Siskel and Ebert commented on the 'dirty' look of LTK when it was released, and that shots were missing. The way it is shot (or edited) the audience feels pushed out, and a lot of the supporting characters are not very fleshed out- I wanted to see characters like Ferrara, Chuck Lee and Tibbett actually survive to the end of the film.

Grindelwald

Honestly , Chuck Lee wasn't exactly the best written character