Torrents might be over soon?

toutbrun

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/feb/06/btjunkie-voluntarily-shuts-down

BTjunkie 'voluntarily' shuts down

The Pirate Bay has faced some downturns recently and Megaupload (which was different, however).

Hopefully the Torrent community will be able to survive because they simply reference existing torrents, while Megaupload stored and sold the videos.

What do you think will happen?

Can the US even close Sweden websites?

Mr Beech

I hate torrents. In a minority of cases, they can help by making someone loyal to the company who produced the content and that way they may support the company in the future or if they start a businesss. Generally, it is just stealing from people who put the time and money into an expensive project and cheating future creative projects out of more money.

Please don't steal stuff guys. Or else we'll have even MORE product placement in Skyfall.

toutbrun

Mr Beech wrote:

I hate torrents. In a minority of cases, they can help by making someone loyal to the company who produced the content and that way they may support the company in the future or if they start a businesss. Generally, it is just stealing from people who put the time and money into an expensive project and cheating future creative projects out of more money.

Please don't steal stuff guys. Or else we'll have even MORE product placement in Skyfall.

Obviously, that's quite a respectable view. However, I find that they can be useful for many things, either watching late night shows I couldn't and that are not available online (it's not like Letterman needs my money), super-famous movies that I would never pay to see OR really hard to find old movies. I wouldn't steal the artists I love.

But artists don't (*really) make money on the CDs, but rather on their shows and other sources of revenues. Companies make all the money. And they don't pay taxes - therefore are not patriotic. I can't say that I feel too bad.

Mr Beech

toutbrun wrote:

Mr Beech wrote:

I hate torrents. In a minority of cases, they can help by making someone loyal to the company who produced the content and that way they may support the company in the future or if they start a businesss. Generally, it is just stealing from people who put the time and money into an expensive project and cheating future creative projects out of more money.

Please don't steal stuff guys. Or else we'll have even MORE product placement in Skyfall.

Obviously, that's quite a respectable view. However, I find that they can be useful for many things, either watching late night shows I couldn't and that are not available online (it's not like Letterman needs my money), super-famous movies that I would never pay to see OR really hard to find old movies. I wouldn't steal the artists I love.

But artists don't (*really) make money on the CDs, but rather on their shows and other sources of revenues. Companies make all the money. And they don't pay taxes - therefore are not patriotic. I can't say that I feel too bad.

These companies use the money to make more and more brands, which means more and more artists and projects arise for us to love. And you say you wouldn't pay for the movies you steal, but yet you think its then okay to break through and steal it because you do in fact want to watch it without taking responsibility for the cost and the relationship that companies have with their consumers? And is it really more justified based on if it is super famous or just old? Regardless of how much money from each ticket or sale gets to the creative team through the company, it all still supports the artists who need those companies to thrive and start these projects.

It hurts the system, no matter how you spin it.

I get the one you said about a late night show, but that is tricky to me because usually the legal channels in the US offer a way to see these shows after airing. I can see all the major Late Night shows and scripted shows online the next day, with no cost besides internet. And with Netflix being around $16US and Hulu Plus at $8, you save massive on cable, but can get any movie via mail with Netflix and even faster with their streaming on thousands. Hulu Plus brings your missed shows and back catalogs of tons of ended shows to any device or TV you want, plus a decent selection of movies there too.

I just don't see why, when almost all the entertainment we want is available for under $30 per month, you can justify stealing content.

And there is nothing to justify pirating movies that are in theaters or soon to be released on DVD. Its your fault if you missed it or can't bear to wait for a DVD on Netflix. Not the creative teams involved in making it.

It's not about whether you have that ounce of psychopath in you that prevents remorse, it is about whether or not you are aware that it is a low move to steal someone's content. I don't see how saying that they are a big company or that they are not factored into taxes means it is okay to take from them and we shouldn't feel bad because they are big.

Don't steal. Now more than ever, it should be easy to understand that digital goods are a value susceptible to theft.

alexeberlin

=Mr Beech
It's not about whether you have that ounce of psychopath in you that prevents remorse, it is about whether or not you are aware that it is a low move to steal someone's content. I don't see how saying that they are a big company or that they are not factored into taxes means it is okay to take from them and we shouldn't feel bad because they are big.

Don't steal. Now more than ever, it should be easy to understand that digital goods are a value susceptible to theft.

are you seriously comparing someone who downloads movies to a psychopath? your moral values are warped.

this guy is a psychopath

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4075866/IRA-man-Brian-Shivers-gets-life-for-Army-murders.html

toutbrun

US Companies pay more lobbyist fees than taxes.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/264481/20111209/30-major-u-s-corporations-paid-lobby.htm

They are the one ruining the system. In fact, if they were starving for a while, they would make better movies to try to get more money.

Mr Beech

alexeberlin wrote:

=Mr Beech
It's not about whether you have that ounce of psychopath in you that prevents remorse, it is about whether or not you are aware that it is a low move to steal someone's content. I don't see how saying that they are a big company or that they are not factored into taxes means it is okay to take from them and we shouldn't feel bad because they are big.

Don't steal. Now more than ever, it should be easy to understand that digital goods are a value susceptible to theft.

are you seriously comparing someone who downloads movies to a psychopath? your moral values are warped.

this guy is a psychopath

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4075866/IRA-man-Brian-Shivers-gets-life-for-Army-murders.html

I wasn't making a diagnosis, clearly. I was simply referring to a lack of remorse for intruding on legal rights for selfish reasons. Psychopath definitely doesn't usually mean murderer or thug.

toutbrun wrote:

US Companies pay more lobbyist fees than taxes.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/264481/20111209/30-major-u-s-corporations-paid-lobby.htm

They are the one ruining the system. In fact, if they were starving for a while, they would make better movies to try to get more money.

Oh okay. Stealing is community service. That makes me feel right and dandy about it.

Sir Miles

toutbrun wrote:

Obviously, that's quite a respectable view. However, I find that they can be useful for many things, either watching late night shows I couldn't and that are not available online (it's not like Letterman needs my money), super-famous movies that I would never pay to see OR really hard to find old movies. I wouldn't steal the artists I love.

But artists don't (*really) make money on the CDs, but rather on their shows and other sources of revenues. Companies make all the money. And they don't pay taxes - therefore are not patriotic. I can't say that I feel too bad.

But you think it's ok to steal from people you don't love ?

The artists are paid by the companies to make the records in the first place - that's why it's called a 'record deal' !! The companies get their money back by selling the finished album...so if the album doesn't sell, then albums won't get made...same goes for movies...

Stealing is ILLEGAL....end of.

AJB does not condone this and does not condone your comments, toutbrun...any further views you have on stealing I suggest you keep to yourself or find yourself banned.

toutbrun

Sure.

minigeff

dude, think ya need to take some deep breaths or something

Mr Beech

I'm not super passionate about it, nor do I pick at people who do this that I know. I am just being more thorough here since it is up for discussion.

I assure you my blood pressure is at normal levels as I argue this. )

toutbrun

I think we should crack down on people who lend their DVDs to someone. I was also thinking about making a thread to praise Wall Street for ripping people in 2008.. legally. I love the law.. Citizens United? Anyone? I'm a big fan. -{

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission

Also, if anyone discusses the possibility of making «pot» legal like Ron Paul suggested, I think we should agree on a punishment for that, perhaps push-ups or sit ups.

minigeff

tout, while i too can't stand rich arse bankers being offered £1m bonus' after their bank got bailed out by taxpayers, i equally can't condone piracy.

i know people who use torrents to obtain programs etc in order to do their work, i also can understand why the big companies get annoyed with people copying their stuff.

at the end of it, how would you feel if you put your hard work and effort into something only for someone else to copy it, and either sell it for less, or worse, give it away for free?

you can't simply label anyone who makes a lot of money as 'one of the rich evil elite'. if you just happened to stumble across a revolutionary idea that made you millions, would you become one of them, or would there be some other hastly invented explanation as to why you'd be the exception from your tunnel visioned norm?

Eagle

Observation: Strange how collectors are quick to bash 'copyright theft', illegal downloads etc but seldom bat an eyelid when buying an unlicenced prop replica. It's pretty much the same thing as piracy and theft of intellectual property.

Predator

toutbrun wrote:

But artists don't (*really) make money on the CDs, but rather on their shows and other sources of revenues.

Speaking as someone who does try to make money by selling CDs, I can tell you that your attitude is not unusual. That doesn't make it right however.

Just because it's easy and convenient to steal, doesn't make it legal ... support the artists, buy their music. You owe it to them.

Mr Beech

I'd feel pretty upset if my movie or album that I worked hard on to get out there and sell was getting ripped off and stolen online by people who say the studio that is backing will be just fine, they can take the hit. I really don't see how toutburn's issues about bad CEO's or legalizing marijuana are relevant. Bad CEOs deserve to face the consequences, and many do. Many people hope to legalize marijuana so they support those who support that. Sure there's problems facing any issue, and thus, we call them issues.

Studios prefer when everyone buys their own copies of content, which is part of why they love digital distribution, but nobody said there is anything wrong with people sharing legally. Sure, some people are blind to the difference between ripping a stolen copy off the internet versus a friend letting them watch the purchased DVD, but I don't see how that could make it okay and right toutburn.

Get your empathy and remorse in check and realize how bad it feels and how it affects you when people copy and steal your work, even if you somehow can't deal with the legal side of this responsibly.

EDIT: ^This last paragraph sounded more antagonistic than my actual tone. Don't take this as a scarring attack. You pirates. :v

toutbrun

Eagle wrote:

Observation: Strange how collectors are quick to bash 'copyright theft', illegal downloads etc but seldom bat an eyelid when buying an unlicenced prop replica. It's pretty much the same thing as piracy and theft of intellectual property.

I didn't even think of that. It's true though..

EDIT : For those who will try to defend the fact that you can build something similar and make it your own, the problem is when you sell it.

toutbrun

And for all the others, I spend a lot of money on iTunes, so no, I don't feel bad at all. It's not because you use torrents that you can't also buy music. It doesn't work like that.

Mr Beech

toutbrun wrote:

And for all the others, I spend a lot of money on iTunes, so no, I don't feel bad at all. It's not because you use torrents that you can't also buy music. It doesn't work like that.

I bought this persons CD on iTunes, therefore, it's okay that I steal other people's CDs.

Is that what you are saying?

toutbrun

Mr Beech wrote:

toutbrun wrote:

And for all the others, I spend a lot of money on iTunes, so no, I don't feel bad at all. It's not because you use torrents that you can't also buy music. It doesn't work like that.

I bought this persons CD on iTunes, therefore, it's okay that I steal other people's CDs.

Is that what you are saying?

I already explained my view, obviously it is of no use, so I'm done.

The Domino Effect

I have moral problems with stealing and see absolutely no difference between pocketing a CD in a store and taking an illegal download, but that aside, too many people fail to connect the dots and realise how piracy actually affects each of us.

It costs a lot of money to make a movie or record an album and if a production company or a record label doesn't recoup that investment they very well may stop working with that band, writer, actor, director etc etc. Now, if that financial shortfall is because it was a bad movie/album, then maybe that's not such a bad thing. But if it's actually a very good and popular album/movie but more copies are being pirated than being bought then that's not so good, is it?

If we use Bond as an extreme example, if SkyFall was the best Bond movie since Connery. If the critics and fans were united in their praise but EON/MGM lost hundreds of millions on it because of rampant piracy on-line and in illegal DVDs, one of two things could happen: the next Bond film will have a much smaller budget, or - to take it to an extreme level - there is no next Bond film. That may sound ridiculous, but it's very plausible for a smaller production.

As for only taking illegal downloads of things you don't particularly like, why would you waste your time watching or listening to something you don't particularly like? Life's too short to waste it on crap. And if your justification of an illegal download is because you don't want the filthy rich to get filthy richer, then don't give them your patronage at all. There are people I simply can't stand for one reason or another (arrogance, greed, politics, personality...lack of talent!) - producers, actors, writers, singers etc - and because my disdain for them is so intense I wouldn't waste my time watching/listening to their stuff even if I suspect I'd quite like it. Conversely, if it's something/someone I do like, then I am more than happy to pay for it...it's the least I can do for something that has given me pleasure.

Sir Miles

toutbrun wrote:

I think we should crack down on people who lend their DVDs to someone.

Why ? When you purchase the work you can lend it out...as long as you don't do it for profit or gain...or loan it out so it can be view by a large crowd...

As for the rest of your post...?...utter rubbish ! You clearly show a lack of intellect.

alexeberlin

Mr Beech wrote:

alexeberlin wrote:

=Mr Beech
It's not about whether you have that ounce of psychopath in you that prevents remorse, it is about whether or not you are aware that it is a low move to steal someone's content. I don't see how saying that they are a big company or that they are not factored into taxes means it is okay to take from them and we shouldn't feel bad because they are big.

Don't steal. Now more than ever, it should be easy to understand that digital goods are a value susceptible to theft.

are you seriously comparing someone who downloads movies to a psychopath? your moral values are warped.

this guy is a psychopath

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4075866/IRA-man-Brian-Shivers-gets-life-for-Army-murders.html

I wasn't making a diagnosis, clearly. I was simply referring to a lack of remorse for intruding on legal rights for selfish reasons. Psychopath definitely doesn't usually mean murderer or thug.

toutbrun wrote:

US Companies pay more lobbyist fees than taxes.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/264481/20111209/30-major-u-s-corporations-paid-lobby.htm

They are the one ruining the system. In fact, if they were starving for a while, they would make better movies to try to get more money.

Oh okay. Stealing is community service. That makes me feel right and dandy about it.

If you're seriously describing downloading torrents as the work of a psychopath then you need stronger medication. I'm not attempting to defend copyright infringement but you need to get a grip. I'll say it again. Psychopaths are mentally ill and in common usage is referred to those who do harm to others for no reason. Al Qaeda, the IRA, multiple murderers.

Mr Beech

alexeberlin wrote:

If you're seriously describing downloading torrents as the work of a psychopath then you need stronger medication. I'm not attempting to defend copyright infringement but you need to get a grip. I'll say it again. Psychopaths are mentally ill and in common usage is referred to those who do harm to others for no reason. Al Qaeda, the IRA, multiple murderers.

You're one of those people that thinks psychopath means violent behavior...

It doesn't. Someone who walks by a fruit stand every day and takes a fruit without paying just because they want fruit, lies about it every time, starts making accusations, lies continuously to anyone, and deceives through faked emotions and behavior with no empathy is likely a psychopath. None of those require violence against others. Most psychopaths are discovered through social behavior, not crimes.

So as I said, stealing without remorse, ounce of psychopath. Obviously not a serious statement calling content thieves full-blown psychopaths. Many normal people do some things that some psychopaths do and vice versa. It was just minor nod to what that trait can be associated with, but in no way would that imply that I was calling all torrent users actual psychopaths.

I don't see how you are so focused on vocabulary, but hopefully my explanation cleared that up.

Don't steal. Don't steal repeatedly. Don't steal through torrents repeatedly.

EDIT: This makes me feel like the cliche college student. You all know, the one who took psychology and brings it up in conversation. Most of us have been there )