Thunderball vs. You Only Live Twice

ExCell

I think these are the only two Bond films where I disagree with the prevailing assessment. Rotten Tomatoes gives Thunderball an 88%, while You Only Live Twice gets a 70%. I just don't see it. I thought You Only Live Twice had much better pacing, better action, and a more interesting locale. Everything else I'd consider a wash.

I could see if you prefer Thunderball, but even if you do, would you say it is that much better than You Only Live Twice? 88% vs. 70%?

Napoleon Plural

Purists may prefer TB because it is closer to the novel and Ian Fleming's world, whereas YOLT has some real silly moments and jettisons most of the novel. I generally prefer YOLT but they're not really the same kind of film. I like the number of 'bumps' in YOLT that is little incidents and changes of locale, the look of TB gets repetitive after a while.

It will be purists who vote on RToms for a film 50 years old or so.

77007

I agree with that rating. TB is that much better to me. YOLT is one of my least favorite and only DAF is a worse Connery Bond. It started a downhill slide in quality.

Hardyboy

I'll admit that YOLT is faster and more entertaining than Thunderball, and on its own it has magnificent photography, music, and production design; but it is an inferior film. Sure, the lack of fidelity to a Fleming source is part of it, but more than that is Connery's sluggish performance, the contrived and illogical plot, and the cartoonish villain. In contrast, TB has a suave and smooth Connery (all true Bond fans will get that reference! :007) ), a story that has real moments of suspense and realism, superb good-and-bad Bond girls, and a fine villain. To me, there's no contest!

Blackleiter

I enjoyed them both, but I actually found YOLT to be more entertaining. The locale and the soundtrack really added to the enjoyment, and I also liked the ninjas and the Blofeld reveal. And I know I'm in the distinct minority, but I wasn't bothered by Connery's performance at all. Does that mean YOLT was a better Bond film than TB? I don't know, and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I'm in the tank for all of the Connery Bonds - so there you have it!

Thunderpussy

Like many I love them both, But agree TB has Connery at least interested in Playing Bond.

Moore Than

My head says Thunderball but my heart says You Only Live Twice. Thunderball has a more realistic plot, has pretty much the best Bond women in the series, a better villain, and Sean Connery gives one of his best performances as 007, whereas in YOLT he gives his worst, if you can call it a performance.

Thunderball is rather plodding at times. Like others, I find You Only Live Twice more entertaining. I love all the principal Japanese characters. And I especially love John Barry's magnificent score which beautifully captures the essence of Japan. YOLT is definitely a guilty pleasure, despite the overblown plot, Connery's lack of interest and Donald Pleasence' weak Blofeld.

thesecretagent

I prefer TB. YOLT is OK, but like mentioned, TB is closer to the book and that's how I like my classic Bonds. I'd give TB 8/10 and YOLT 7/10 so that's about right in the percentages.

ZorinIndustries

In my opinion, YOLT beats out Thunderball. I happened to watch both films recently and TB came off as a tedious film for me. I've seen it many times before so maybe that's why. But even with YOLT, a film i've seen numerous times, I was engaged for the entire film. The fight sequence in Osato's HQ was intriguing, John Barry's score was beautiful, and I think Connery did a good job, contrary to a lot of viewpoints. Thunderball had great underwater shots and a good score, but it wasn't as engaging as YOLT was for me.

Napoleon Plural

Might it be that for some, YOLT suffers from the OP factor, as comparison to its predesessor FYEO.

That is to say, OP is over the top, but has some unforgiveable (for some) silliness such as the clown outfit and Tarzan yell whereas FYEO is more Fleming and fairly grounded.

For some, the Japanese makeover and other outlandish stuff in YOLT damns it in comparison to TB. Others say, what the hell, one is just more entertaining, I'll go with that.

thesecretagent

ZorinIndustries wrote:

In my opinion, YOLT beats out Thunderball. I happened to watch both films recently and TB came off as a tedious film for me. I've seen it many times before so maybe that's why. But even with YOLT, a film i've seen numerous times, I was engaged for the entire film. The fight sequence in Osato's HQ was intriguing, John Barry's score was beautiful, and I think Connery did a good job, contrary to a lot of viewpoints. Thunderball had great underwater shots and a good score, but it wasn't as engaging as YOLT was for me.

To be fair, there are parts of TB that go on a bit. Some of the underwater scenes, retrieval of the weapons etc. But I find that all better than the ninja training camp and Bond's "Japanization"... Horses for courses I suppose. both films are far better than Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker...

zaphod

thesecretagent wrote:

ZorinIndustries wrote:

In my opinion, YOLT beats out Thunderball. I happened to watch both films recently and TB came off as a tedious film for me. I've seen it many times before so maybe that's why. But even with YOLT, a film i've seen numerous times, I was engaged for the entire film. The fight sequence in Osato's HQ was intriguing, John Barry's score was beautiful, and I think Connery did a good job, contrary to a lot of viewpoints. Thunderball had great underwater shots and a good score, but it wasn't as engaging as YOLT was for me.

To be fair, there are parts of TB that go on a bit. Some of the underwater scenes, retrieval of the weapons etc. But I find that all better than the ninja training camp and Bond's "Japanization"... Horses for courses I suppose. both films are far better than Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker...

Agreed. But neither rank very highly, but both (like most Bond movies) have scenes and moments that are superb

ExCell

ZorinIndustries wrote:

In my opinion, YOLT beats out Thunderball. I happened to watch both films recently and TB came off as a tedious film for me. I've seen it many times before so maybe that's why. But even with YOLT, a film i've seen numerous times, I was engaged for the entire film. The fight sequence in Osato's HQ was intriguing, John Barry's score was beautiful, and I think Connery did a good job, contrary to a lot of viewpoints. Thunderball had great underwater shots and a good score, but it wasn't as engaging as YOLT was for me.

This mirrors my opinion exactly. I loved the fight scene in YOLT--to me it was more action packed than anything in Thunderball.

Not that I disliked Thunderball, of course, but the underwater scenes did go on a bit long. At times, I got a 2001: A Space Odyssey vibe while watching them.

Mister Greene

no contest TB was better. at least in my opinion

Napoleon Plural

Of course, DAF knocks both into a cocked hat.

Moore Than

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Of course, DAF knocks both into a cocked hat.

I think you meant Naff instead of DAF.

A lighter performance from Sean Connery, keeping in tone with the film. A few moments of the old magic, such as the fight with Franks in the lift and the ride on top of the lift outside the Whyte House. But clearly overweight.

Some sharp dialogue and good humour. Interesting and enjoyable characters Wint and Kidd. A weak Blofeld, or should I say Blofeld's. Bond girls Tiffany Case and Plenty O' Toole are good but not special like Dominique Derval, for example. The locales and action are average by Bond standards. One of John Barry's least inspiring scores but still good. Overall, not as good as Thunderball or as entertaining as You Only Live Twice but still enjoyable for the most part.

thesecretagent

There are some Bond turkeys when you look back over the series, but all have brilliant scenes that keep them watchable. There's much I enjoy about YOLT, and TB can go on a bit with very long scenes. But TB is my favourite of the two.

Mr.D

I found Thunderball started off great, then dipped around the middle.

I found YOLT interesting start, then slow till near the end.

zaphod

Mr.D wrote:

I found Thunderball started off great, then dipped around the middle.

I found YOLT interesting start, then slow till near the end.

Yeah that's a pattern that most Bond movies follow, strong start, sag in the middle and a big finish. QOS is on British TV tonight and I'm going to try really hard again to see if I can find any redeeming qualities, or find some value to share with those who do value it and whose opinions I respect. It must be my fault surely, something I'm just not getting. Wish me luck.

Napoleon Plural

Hardyboy wrote:

TB has a suave and smooth Connery (all true Bond fans will get that reference! :007) ), a story that has real moments of suspense and realism...

Eh? Suppose I'm not a true Bond fan, but what reference are you referring to? ?:)

Hardyboy

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Eh? Suppose I'm not a true Bond fan, but what reference are you referring to? ?:)

Apparently someone here hasn't heard Dame Shirley Bassey sing "Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang". . .

Halcon

zaphod wrote:

Mr.D wrote:

I found Thunderball started off great, then dipped around the middle.

I found YOLT interesting start, then slow till near the end.

Yeah that's a pattern that most Bond movies follow, strong start, sag in the middle and a big finish. QOS is on British TV tonight and I'm going to try really hard again to see if I can find any redeeming qualities, or find some value to share with those who do value it and whose opinions I respect. It must be my fault surely, something I'm just not getting. Wish me luck.

i would encourage you to appreciate the parts (details) rather than the sum of its parts...

Thunderball has Domino...that's all i can manage...

Jamesbondjr

I think Thunderball is the better film, but I would rate You Only Live Twice higher than Rotten Tomatoes; maybe round 75%.

Personally though, I disregard aggregate score sites like Rotten Tomatoes or MetaCritic. My main problem is that you just get a number, there is no justification for the number as there would be in a single review, so to me, the number is completely arbitrary. I know it is an average of a number scores but I would rather read good and bad reviews separately and gauge response that way. People often hold up aggregate scores as an indicator of how good or bad a film is when the score shows nothing of the sort; all it really shows is the averaged scores of a very select few people who have reviewed the film.

If everyone who saw the film were made to write a review and score the film then it would be more accurate but as it stands, aggregate scores are meaningless for me.


With regard to the films; I rate TB higher as I feel it is better paced, has more believable scenarios and is far better written. Given a choice to watch either, I would go with Thunderball. That's not to say I don't enjoy YOLT, I just prefer TB.

zaphod

Halcon wrote:

zaphod wrote:

Mr.D wrote:

I found Thunderball started off great, then dipped around the middle.

I found YOLT interesting start, then slow till near the end.

Yeah that's a pattern that most Bond movies follow, strong start, sag in the middle and a big finish. QOS is on British TV tonight and I'm going to try really hard again to see if I can find any redeeming qualities, or find some value to share with those who do value it and whose opinions I respect. It must be my fault surely, something I'm just not getting. Wish me luck.

i would encourage you to appreciate the parts (details) rather than the sum of its parts...

Thunderball has Domino...that's all i can manage...

You are right. Watched QOS last night and enjoyed some of the tiny details in Craig's performance. The casual tossing away of the phone and room keys, some of the exchanges with M (" stop living in the past " made me laugh) the whole is as flawed as ever, but some of the elements are nice. Thunderball has a great opening- mid section and of course that gorgeous therapist at Shrublands...

Jarvio

YOLT, any and every day of the week. Thunderball I have always found to be very overrated. Each to their own, but YOLT just kept me WAY more entertained, whilst TB kept me more bored...

chrisno1

Tricky.
YOLT is too outrageous to be taken seriously (well, that applies to most Bond films, but, hey...) and Roald Dahl's screenplay is severely underwritten. Connery has nothing to get his teeth into, is clearly bored and gives a sub-standard by the numbers performance. He probably takes the blame for me enjoying this movie less and less as I get older. When I was a whippersnapper I loved YOLT. It was exotic, exciting, fast, space age, I mean WOW, what more did you want as a young lad in the '70s?
TB meanwhile was the very first 007 I saw (although Dad sent me to bed 15 minutes from the end - what sort of Dad does that? I forgave him eventually). I love TB. I love the action, I love Connery, I love the women WOW and DOUBLE WOW, I love the music, I love the credits, and I love the storyline, which is one of the least outrageous ideas. It has great production values, it looks like its been thought through even if cracks are showing while YOLT looks like the cracks are being papered over quickly in case anyone notices. It has all the best 007 ingredients and in the main, comes up trumps.
Thinking about it, if I'd seen those 15 minutes, maybe my historical recollection of the film would be less glamorous.The last 15 minutes is a drag; the underwater scenes go on too long. But given the choice on a desert island, I'd take TB all the way chiefly because the script (not the plot - the SCRIPT) gives the characters things to say and do which actually contribute to the story rather than idly move it from scene to scene, which is what YOLT does (eg Little Nellie - why exactly? Miss Brandt on the Ning Po - why? Spectre infiltrating the ninjas - why, how and what for? etc).
No contest here.
But YOLT is still fun....

HowardB

As a kid in the 60's I loved TB and YOLT equally. Seeing those films during their original runs in a theater packed with people on a 50 ft wide screen was a whole different experience than watching then on TV.

As an adult, I've become a big fan of TB. IMO Connery was at his peak as Bond and his performance, especially in the beginning at Shrublands is classic as is the chase during the Madis Grasparade and subsequent "dancing scene". Just classic stuff. But I don't hate YOLT...has its moments but Connery had gotten a little too paunchy and disinterested at that point.

Willard Whyte

The opener to YOLT is one of the best Bond openers ever with the space ships and the brilliant music.

YOLT got a bit silly in places but is a great watch.

Thunderball is a quality film but gets let down with all the fast forward camera shots near the end, brilliant score for Thunderball and it takes off when Bond meets Domino.

Both about equal IMO.

Ardee

As with the rest of you, TB is a superior performance by Connery, but YOLT has more action.
For me though, Thunderball has Domino. My true Bondian love. I didn't really appreciate the two forgettable females of YOLT.
But YOLT has the infamous song, though not enough to change my heart! :x

Golrush007

For me there is no contest. Thunderball all the way.

YOLT has some great elements. The cinematography, the score, the use of location which hints at the Fleming-sweep of the novels. But, as a film, I feel that these parts are let down by the whole, and they end up being lost in the silliness of the script and illogical plot. I also don't particularly like the casting of the villain and the leading ladies.

Thunderball, on the other hand, holds up much better despite being slower paced. The cast is very good - especially Luciana Paluzzi and Claudine Auger, and Rik Van Nutter gives us one of the better Felix Leiters. I have some small issues with Thunderball, but on the whole my opinion regarding the film is quite positive, whereas YOLT. although entertaining in a silly way, remains my least favourite Bond film. I find it entertaining for the wrong reasons.

vanguard

As a long-time resident of Japan, YOLT holds a special place in my heart. Even before living there my dad would go often on business and the Japan bug hit me early. I like that I can understand all the background conversations. The script is very heavy handed but enjoyable nonetheless. Then there's the score, lush, varied, and textured. My favorite of Barry's. That's not to mention Nancy Sinatra's fantastic theme.

While Thunderball has the better script, better Bond girls as even Paula is better looking than Kissy Suzuki, and Connery is more chipper. However the scenes with the Count in the spa, the sped up camera for the boat fight and the prolonged underwater battle are several items that are just hard to totally ignore.