The Rant Box

Thunderpussy

The hero shot five times saving others
An army veteran and student charged at the shooter to save his classmates and was himself shot five times, according to his family.
Chris Mintz, 30, has undergone surgery after the shootings at Umpqua Community College on Thursday morning.
Derek Bourgeois told DailyMail.com that his cousin went after the shooter because "there was no way he was going to stand around and watch something this horrific happen".
"I was told he went after the shooter," Mr Bourgeois, who lives in North Carolina, told the website.
Despite being shot multiple times, the cousin told the website that no vital organs had been hit. He is now recovering after surgery.
Mr Mintz joined the army after he graduated high school and was stationed at Fort Lewis in Washington

From The Telegraph. The world is full of some amazing people.

Lady Rose

Loeffelholz wrote:

A killer in a declared 'gun free' zone...knowing he will be unmolested in his evil intent. Criminals do not obey laws/read signs.

A killer is a killer and as TP says you can't legislate to stop everyone who has intent.

If that person has that intent someone else having a gun isn't going to put them off either. The death penalty doesn't stop people murdering others either.

What can most certainly be prevented is accidental shootings, or shooting committed in anger.

People argue here that knife crime has just replaced gun crime but frankly I'd rather take my chances against a knife than a gun. Also, you're not going to be able to stab a large group of people in the same time it takes to shoot them. Your odds are greatly increased.

The Second Amendment was written in the late 18th century at a time when lawlessness was a genuine issue. Surely it's time to adapt it.

How about raising the age limit? how about more stringent checks? how about a much longer period between applying for a licence and getting the gun? Only being able to buy a gun for the person with the licence? Age restrictions at gun ranges?How about restricting ownership to handguns if its just for personal use ?? ... There is a lot can be done to help without totally taking away gun ownership.

Thunderpussy

I think one of the sadest aspects of attacks like this, is the sheer feeling
Of helplessness we have. mixed with the questions of Why ? But the
Time surley has come as Lady Rose has suggested for some minor,
Reenforcement of the laws on gun ownership in the US.

Napoleon Plural

Fair points, LR.

I know the right to bear arms is in the US Constitution, but where do you draw the line? Could a US citizen go about their business with a nuclear weapon strapped to their backs? A dirty bomb? After all, they are arms of a kind. A howitzer?

The automatic weapons of today are as far removed from the weapons of yesteryear as a Ferrari is to a horse and cart.

So allow folk to bear arms as in the Constitution. Allow them a Winchester 73 or whatever.

Lady Rose

Exactly NP.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to own an automatic weapon in a domestic scenario.

Number24

Are there any other developed countries where civilians can buy fully automatic guns? (assault rifles and submachinguns)

Loeffelholz

The problem isn't guns. It's people's hearts. And 'automatic weapons' ARE illegal aready. These so-called 'assault rifles' are one bullet per trigger pull, and it's mostly cosmetic things that give them the 'assault rifle' tag.

This current era of 'hope and change' is leading us slowly to anarchy---the collapse of the economy, an Electromagnet Pulse, or nuclear detonation, etc...and the ones who are armed will be the ones who survive...when lawlessness again becomes a 'legitimate issue.'

The guns have been in our hands since the Revolution, but as has been said the times have changed. There is more evil everywhere. Human life has no value. 'Planned Parenthood' is getting government funding to sell dead baby parts for profit---Mary Shelley couldn't have dreamed that up---and there is no political courage to stop it.

Not going to talk politics here; that way lies madness. But restricting personal freedom is the easy route, and I'd like to restrict 'that' notion.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

I'm out.

Higgins

From Loeff's posted link

Gun crime soars by 35%


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-154307/Gun-crime-soars-35.html

Loeffs are you aware that this is an article from 2003?
It would be interesting to get the whole picture, so the number of gun related crimes in the UK over the years and not only for a year's period.

Edit:


Otherwise it's just an example how to lie with statistics ( I am not speaking about you personally)

Maybe Asp9 mm or AS can chime in with some recent figures over the last 10 or 20 years.

I am just reading that the number of gun-related victims in the UK is relatively stable with ~50/year.
In the US we are speaking about 10.000 a year.

Loeffelholz

"UPDATE Correction: The data on the UK is from 2003 and it is not new as prviously written however, newer data from 2009 shows gun violence in the UK has increased by 89 percent in the past decade, making the 35 percent figure insufficient."

In the maligned U.S., gun crimes are worse in cities like Chicago, where total gun bans are in effect. The sanctimony and the "tsk, tsk, tsk" are grating...and offensive.

I repeat: It's not the guns. It's the loss of our collective humanity. And I will not be further baited into an argument.

My apologies to all, but I have a short fuse where my personal freedoms are concerned.

Higgins

Sorry, Loeffs,

The 89% raise is just created by carefully choosing the 'wrong decade'

The UK fatalities is still between 50 and 100/ year and in the US 10.000
I'd be very careful about media that nitpick numbers from statistics to confirm their picture - in the last years the numbers fell dramatically!

Lady Rose

Loeffelholz wrote:

And I will not be further baited into an argument.

I don't think anyone is trying to bait you Loeffs, its actually quite interesting to see your reaction. I would be interested to know what makes Americans inparticular so concerned for their safety and infringements on personal freedoms. ( I really don't mean that as an insult or patronising)

Its a very different mindset in Europe in particular where guns are an anathema and I wonder why its so different in America.

Thunderpussy

I agree, That would be really interesting. -{

Loeffelholz

Overcoming the condescension is too great a challenge for me personally. There's nothing for me on this thread.

Back to Bond! :007)

Lady Rose

And that is why nothing will change in the US because it's not even a topic up for discussion ...

Number24

Loeffelholz wrote:

The problem isn't guns. It's people's hearts. And 'automatic weapons' ARE illegal aready. These so-called 'assault rifles' are one bullet per trigger pull, and it's mostly cosmetic things that give them the 'assault rifle' tag.

This current era of 'hope and change' is leading us slowly to anarchy---the collapse of the economy, an Electromagnet Pulse, or nuclear detonation, etc...and the ones who are armed will be the ones who survive...when lawlessness again becomes a 'legitimate issue.'

The guns have been in our hands since the Revolution, but as has been said the times have changed. There is more evil everywhere. Human life has no value. 'Planned Parenthood' is getting government funding to sell dead baby parts for profit---Mary Shelley couldn't have dreamed that up---and there is no political courage to stop it.

Not going to talk politics here; that way lies madness. But restricting personal freedom is the easy route, and I'd like to restrict 'that' notion.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

I'm out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it fairly easy to convert semi-automatic guns into a fully automatic guns? Also remember that the UK used a semiautomatic assault rifle (FN FAL) during most of the cold war and I think we can agree a great deal of damage was caused by them. Assault rifles have 20-30 rounds per quick-change magazine and hence have more firepower than guns made for civilians

You talk of disasters like nuclear detonations and economic collapse. The economic collapse has already happened (worst since the 1930's) and crime still drops. But it can get worse and disasters may happen. But I'm not sure societies with many guns Will fare better than .... well, pretty much the rest of the western world. I think the difference will be that in the US the looters will have guns.

I can't think of a single way US citicens have more personal freedom or democracy than we have in Norway, with the exception of the right to buy all sorts of guns and to carry handguns in the streets. the price you pay is a staggeringly high murder rate, lots of school massacres and lots of accidents involving firearms.

Sir Miles

Lady Rose wrote:

And that is why nothing will change in the US because it's not even a topic up for discussion ...

Yep...and therein lies the problem

Higgins

I understand Loeff's reasons.
Most of all are friends here, we come here to relax and enjoy - such a highly controversial topic may not help us forward here {[]

Thunderpussy

yes. it could end up in a big argument. ... especially
with Higgins. )
but yes, like morris dancing and incest, best avoided.

Higgins

Thunderpussy wrote:

. especially
with Higgins. )

:v I can see that you've gotten over your happy-happy-Spectre's coming-soon attitude now :v

Thunderpussy

Oh, I'm still on my Bond " all time high" , tomorrow may
be a different story. :v

Number24

Thunderpussy wrote:

yes. it could end up in a big argument. ... especially
with Higgins. )
but yes, like morris dancing and incest, best avoided.

I agree, controversial topics are completely out of place in a thread called the Rant Box.
Let's discuss something completely uncontroversial, such as Israel and the Middle East

Loeffelholz

Lady Rose wrote:

And that is why nothing will change in the US

)

Rich.

Thunderpussy

I'm comfortable.

Loeffelholz

I've no doubt.

Thunderpussy

)

chrisisall

Loeffelholz wrote:

There is more evil everywhere. Human life has no value. 'Planned Parenthood' is getting government funding to sell dead baby parts for profit---

Okay, that's been debunked. But it shows the extent the rich will go to pit us against each other, and it works damn well.
I direct everyone's attention to reality here:
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8283199/gun-control-comedy-jefferies

This sums it all up SO perfectly. But of course it doesn't apply to ME, because I still sleep with a gun under my pillow. :007)

chrisisall

Sir Miles wrote:

Lady Rose wrote:

And that is why nothing will change in the US because it's not even a topic up for discussion ...

Yep...and therein lies the problem

Without intelligent discussion, all we are left with is superstitious belief... 8-)

Loeffelholz

chrisisall wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

There is more evil everywhere. Human life has no value. 'Planned Parenthood' is getting government funding to sell dead baby parts for profit---

Okay, that's been debunked. But it shows the extent the rich will go to pit us against each other, and it works damn well.

Well, that's a relief. It's good to know that those weren't PP employees and executives in those videos, that those conversations never happened, that it was all staged, and that miscellaneous baby parts aren't being shipped from place to place...because that would be abhorrent, unless you're okay with that sort of thing.

chrisisall

Loeffelholz wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

There is more evil everywhere. Human life has no value. 'Planned Parenthood' is getting government funding to sell dead baby parts for profit---

Okay, that's been debunked. But it shows the extent the rich will go to pit us against each other, and it works damn well.

Well, that's a relief. It's good to know that those weren't PP employees and executives in those videos, that those conversations never happened, that it was all staged, and that miscellaneous baby parts aren't being shipped from place to place...because that would be abhorrent, unless you're okay with that sort of thing.

Oh, so you really bought it all without research? I was astounded & sickened by that video & dug into it more, and what I found was that it was heavily edited & orchestrated in the set up to elicit the most negative response from the viewers... the dollar amounts were mainly handling costs for research so as not to waste the remains... gruesome to US, but medical peeps are immune to disgust because of their profession. Hence the gross discussion on the video. Taken totally out of context. An ex girlfriend in med school use to relate gross stories of joking with parts of dissection cadavers that made me cringe, but to them body parts are like car parts to a mechanic. So, flush the bits or make scientific use of them? I can't decide for myself since I don't really care one way or the other not being in the medical profession. But just so you know, when my Dad recently died, I was offered the choice of having him cremated or to have his body donated to a medical facility for scientific learning, where I was told his body would be divided into several parts & shipped to different universities & facilities for research. AND that it would generate forty five THOUSAND dollars in the process. We had him cremated to ease our minds. This is the world we live in, and this is how medical research is done, and to single out a group you disagree with for purely emotional or religious reasons is simplistic at best.
IMHO.
Your statement concerning the cheapening of life in general is correct, however. The us vs. them mentality has been layed on to us with a thick brush. A successful attempt to sway us from the reality that we are one family of man(&woman)kind on this delicate little rock in space. Divisiveness ensures continued conflict, and in turn a concentration of power & profit.

Loeffelholz

My research took me to unedited video, so naturally it won't jive with leftwinghack.com's keen analysis. But thank you for the intelligent discussion.

[and now I have truly wasted my last life moment in The Rant Box. Carry on, Great Enlightened!]